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Who do you think should return in B&W? Dawn, May, Misty, or Brock?

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Graham Aker

Well-Known Member
I doubt any of the old characters are going to appear.

Though it would be interesting to see how Brock, and Cilan get along. Ash would probably kill himself if Misty, and Iris were to meet due to their nagging.
 

Nostalgic Hybrid

Judged By Username
This is true, but Ash, Brock, May, and Max were all active during Misty's two episode appearance as well.

Quite honestly, you can argue that May's DP special was more of Dawn-centric episode for her to get her confidence back by beating a skilled coordinator she heard so much about off-screen. I don't remember learning anything new about May that we didn't already know.

We knew she was going to Johto and her rivals were going to be there too.
We don't hear anything about how Max is doing, but just see him beckon his parents to a TV.
Besides her showing off evolutions of Pokemon she previously owned, we got no new information of what she was doing. (if I'm wrong, correct me on this, but this is what I got from it)

Most people are citing that they want to hear about her Johto Contest arc and how she performed, so it seems that they didn't get any new information from her special.

Dawn and Brock's special pretty much suffers from the same problem with having an unusual focus on other characters, like Forest and whoever-the-hell that new girl was. I was disappointed with Dawn's special on the whole, due to the rehashed Ariados incident that they for whatever reason included. There was just a lack of substance to the characters that the special was meant for, imo.



The Togepi arc was extremely Misty/Togepi-centric with all the other characters just happening to be there. The princess in the episode had more happen to her in the last 5 or so minutes of the second episode than the main cast did the entire time that they wouldn't normally do in other episodes.
Also, Misty's specials all had something happen in them that pretty much revolved around her coping with what she left for, even if they had other recognizable characters in them like Casey, Sakura, and Cassidy & Biff.

I'd like to see/hear about Misty again, but she got treated much better after she left the show than the other girls.


This isn't me jumping on you, but rather pointing out something from what you said in general and I'm getting carried away with it.
 
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Miar

Wigglytuff Guild recruit
No one. If Best Wishes as a total reboot, those two post-DP special episodes were probably Dawn and Brock's last moments in the spotlight.

As for the others, I very highly doubt it. Maybe another special episode for May and what she's doing too.
 

MegaMew2

5th Gen still sucks.
Misty, Misty, Misty, Misty!
I would love to see her come back, even if it was for only a couple of episodes!

...Maybe May could come back for an episode or two as well...
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
Also, Misty's specials all had something happen in them that pretty much revolved around her coping with what she left for, even if they had other recognizable characters in them like Casey, Sakura, and Cassidy & Biff.

I'd like to see/hear about Misty again, but she got treated much better after she left the show than the other girls.

What are you implying here? The reason why Misty got better development after she left is the writers were making up for all the lack of development she had while she was on it, especially in Johto.

There's no reason Togepi couldn't have evolved in mid-Johto for example. Likewise most of her specials showcased her as a Gym leader, which had to be done.
 

Champion Jared 14

Well-Known Member
^^^That's still not enough...Misty won't get too far as a powerful water pokmon trainer if she can't leave the gym to travel and train, like some of the DP Gym Leaders: Candice, Gardenia, Roark, and Fantina for example...She can't leave the gym very long because her sisters are incompetent...So the writers need to fix that.

Out of all the girls so far, Misty is the least developed, so I think she deserves the appearance the most.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
^^^That's still not enough...Misty won't get too far as a powerful water pokmon trainer if she can't leave the gym to travel and train, like some of the DP Gym Leaders: Candice, Gardenia, Roark, and Fantina for example...She can't leave the gym very long because her sisters are incompetent...So the writers need to fix that.

Out of all the girls so far, Misty is the least developed, so I think she deserves the appearance the most.

Well we know her sisters are never going to take over the Gym, that's pretty certain.

As for Misty traveling, I'm sure she has her, "off days" where she closes Cerulean and travels around Kanto a bit for whatever reason.
 

SnowCloak

Pokemon Ranger
Considering Dawn went to Hoenn and there is a possibility of the Ruby And sapphire remakes I think she is most likely to come back with generation 3 Pokemon.
 

Nostalgic Hybrid

Judged By Username
What are you implying here? The reason why Misty got better development after she left is the writers were making up for all the lack of development she had while she was on it, especially in Johto.

There's no reason Togepi couldn't have evolved in mid-Johto for example. Likewise most of her specials showcased her as a Gym leader, which had to be done.

And that implies that they intended on developing Misty.

I don't think it was so much making up for her lack of development but rather the ease of giving her development when she had legitimate problems, such as taking up responsibility for the gym, which is so much easier to convey than her goal of being a Water Pokemon Master. Half of her initial roster was crippled due to the inability of working well on land.
Development either wasn't a key interest when the show was younger or they didn't try at all for anyone that wasn't Ash (and even then could you say that it was good?). That's just the way it was.

I think the major reason Togepi never evolved was due to it being the token out-of-ball Pokemon that was easily marketable, just like Pikachu and Piplup. There were no qualms of evolving it once Misty had run her course and they were probably thinking of some way to give her reason of going to Hoenn. (still felt contrived though)

I'm basically saying that Misty received better treatment with her post-show than the others in the main cast where their specials could be considered something else.
In other words, I wonder what May is up to.


OT:

I don't want to start a whole remake debate, but I have proof that Nintendo will release R/S remakes: They like money. Why stop now, with the other remakes being so successful? Do you honestly think that from a marketing perspective, Nintendo wouldn't release the R/S remakes? Secondly, it wouldn't make sense to replace May, since they already spent four seasons of the anime marketing her. It was okay to replace Kris, since she only ever appeared once in an anime special, and she never had much attention apart from Special. I can, however, see them replacing Brendan, but that doesn't change my May reappearance theory. Thirdly, it wouldn't really be so much of a remake if your little theory came true.

I'm hopeful for one and I don't like the idea of the possibility of it being shot down, but RSE is considered to be the black sheep of the series.

It did what B&W did now, but without the same impact. It was following up a game that was a sequel from the original that many people latch onto in endearment and started to expand beyond what the player base expected.
No TR. More abstract and exotic monster designs. Completely different region with no ties to the previous ones. Lack of Pokemon from previous generation attainable quickly. Etc.

By now, Pokemon fans expect the shift each generation and have more accessible information than kids did way back when. B&W was extremely hyped and marketed as well. I honestly can't remember any advertisements about RSE like I did the first two games, which saw significant marketing in America because of the phenomenon, which all seemed to start dying down soon enough.


Also, it came out for the GBA. Should we expect another RGB remake in the works soon after because its remake is on something seen as outdated that would warrant RSE's remake?

A cash-in is hopefully just reason enough, but RSE was the generation with the least amount of sales.
 
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Aggron459

Aron Is Beast
Actually, I'm gonna say Max. Maybe now, he's their age and he's now a pokemon trainer.
 

Champion Jared 14

Well-Known Member
I'm basically saying that Misty received better treatment with her post-show than the others in the main cast where their specials could be considered something else.
I disagree. May came back for a contest with Dawn which was an extension of her goal and quest to become a Top Coordinator. She was shown to get a LOT of development and improvement in her skills. Three of her pokemon evolved, one of them twice, and three of her pokemon learned new attacks. Misty didn't get that. Dawn got a special for herself, and one of her pokemon evolved, and it just so happened to be a starter pokemon in preparation for either of her goals of Top Coordinator or being a Pokestylist, another of which Misty got none of.

Just look at how much development May got in three seasons of AG.
Just look at how much development Dawn got in three seasons of DP.

Compare Misty's development in Johto, and it's severely lacking. Even post Johto in AG, all she got was gym maintenance, learning how to make the Gym badges, Psyduck still can't swim, probably can't control it's psychic power, and none of her older pokemon were shown to evolve or learn new attacks. Misty deserves more development, improvement, and closure.
 

BlueDragonfangirl

Well-Known Member
Actually, I'm gonna say Max. Maybe now, he's their age and he's now a pokemon trainer.

Age may not make sense in this series but that'd be even more insaneXD How can Ash not age but Max can? Max will sadly never get a Pokemon and will always stay at his parents house. He could still come back, just not older is all.
 

KingMinun

Dawn/Sinnoh Fan!
Well we know her sisters are never going to take over the Gym, that's pretty certain.

As for Misty traveling, I'm sure she has her, "off days" where she closes Cerulean and travels around Kanto a bit for whatever reason.

If you ask me, Daisy could be a possible candidate for taking over the gym, she's the only sister is the most of the time, and she does show an interest in helping Misty. If the writers gave her a little push, she could take over for Misty, unfortunatly I think Misty is too involved with the gym now to leave.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Well we know her sisters are never going to take over the Gym, that's pretty certain.

As for Misty traveling, I'm sure she has her, "off days" where she closes Cerulean and travels around Kanto a bit for whatever reason.

Misty sisters already took care of gym before when Misty traveled with Ash.If writers decide to bring Misty back substitute at gym wouldnt represent much of problem since they could easily have her sisters who are still technically gym leaders to jump in.
If anything Daisy showed to spend most of time with Misty at gym showing interest in battling like "Luvdisc is a Many Splendored Thing"showed for example.

Writers could go further making her responsible enough in future to take up gym for certain period of time while Misty is absent.

I don't think it was so much making up for her lack of development but rather the ease of giving her development when she had legitimate problems, such as taking up responsibility for the gym, which is so much easier to convey than her goal of being a Water Pokemon Master.

Problem is Misty unlike say some other characters like May never got any closure. She never achieved her dream or came to some significant realization that will help her achieve her dream. Sure, May didn't win a GF, but she realized that she was too reliant on Ashs training style, set out to establish her own, traveled on her own (or with her rivals), overcame her fear and loathing of Pokemon, etc. She had massive character development and proper closure. Misty didnt.She didnt choose to stop traveling with group nor hard interest in running gym.
Furthermore specials after departure didnt offered any progress of plots of her story(like her goal of becoming one type master,to learn everything she can about water pokemon,other aspirations etc)nor there was ignited any change in character of deciding to pursue something else.

We all know how whole reason behind taking over gym and staying as because of incompetent sisters(not having anyone to rely on).Similar how Brock had drams of becoming est breeder but took care of gym before he met Ash because of not having anyone to rely on.

Half of her initial roster was crippled due to the inability of working well on land.

To be honest problem wasnt so much in their inability to battle outside of water but more in fact of writers treating some of her pokemon poorly not giving them deserved development.Take for example Goldeen.Writers had several opportunities to make good use of this pokemon when group traveled through Orange Islands,in Johto which was riched with water based areas(like Whirl Cup,Seaking competition,all kind of lakes)but they mssed onm every opportunity leaving this poikemon to rot in pokeball being ver rarely usyed.

For this was mainly responsible their incompetence and poor writing.

There were no qualms of evolving it once Misty had run her course and they were probably thinking of some way to give her reason of going to Hoenn. (still felt contrived though)

Not so much.Its clearly obvious that writers didnt developed Misty as much as they could have leaving many thing in her story unexplored and untied.Whole goal of becoming water pokemon master was barely touched on.Whirl cup was good for a start defining whole thing abit but it was too little and too late.Motives behind Misty desire to use only one type becoming best with them were left unanswered(something they exploited in May or Dawn case),We didnt see Misty overcoming her personal issues which stand on her way never coming to significant realization how to achieve her dreams either.We dont know much about her background(like from where fears like bugphobia comes from,what happened with parents etc).

No one can deny that Misty didnt got enough focus.

They could have her back for something else in Hoenn like water tournament with purpose of advancing her goal but they chosen to evolve Togepi over anything else being their priority.I say reason was probably mix of what you and Cyber said.Writers probably wanted to use him for purpose behind Misty return in Hoenn but at same time this was probably their way of developing and wrapping up at least something in Misty story on which they didnt focused much when she was on cast.

I'm basically saying that Misty received better treatment with her post-show than the others in the main cast where their specials could be considered something else.
In other words, I wonder what May is up to.

Well May got some development when she return in Sinnoh too.Her pokemon evolved being showed that she made big improvement in her quest of becoming top coordinator with special showing that she developed her own style as coordinator not being influenced by Ash battling style like she used to be.
Dawn in her DP special after departure managed to get over any possible issues she had with her mother Johanna showing that she developed in mature and self confident coordinator finding in herself strength which she lost in first half of Sinnoh.She also decided what to do with her life setting of on Hoenn journey revealing that her idol is Wallace.

I agree Misty got some great development in specials after departure but to be fair others like May receive some great development too.

p.s.
If you ask me, Daisy could be a possible candidate for taking over the gym, she's the only sister is the most of the time, and she does show an interest in helping Misty. If the writers gave her a little push, she could take over for Misty, unfortunatly I think Misty is too involved with the gym now to leave.

Pretty much this is what i tried to say,.Problem with gym substitute could be easily solved allowing MIsty being free to leave to learn new things and impove as water trainer dpoing steos forward in her goa of becoming water master.

Judging by some episodes in chronicles like "A Date with Delcatty" or "Real Cleffa Hanger"it was showed how main reason behind Misty stay was sisters incompetence complaining for not having someone trusty enough to leave gym in his hands while she is absent.
I could see Misty leaving gym in future following Wallace footsteps to improve and gain more knowledge and experience.

If anything making her E4 member one day would basically man achievement of her dreams since people at this position are best one type trainers in world.
 
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TheEpicGoomba

Well-Known Member
I want to see May and Misty

I never want to see Brock again. I''m sick of him doing the same stuff for like 10 years

Dawn, I never really liked her

I don't know if this counts but I want to see Paul because he changed and I want to see what he is like now.

I also want to see Gary again.
 

Nostalgic Hybrid

Judged By Username
I disagree. May came back for a contest with Dawn which was an extension of her goal and quest to become a Top Coordinator. She was shown to get a LOT of development and improvement in her skills. Three of her pokemon evolved, one of them twice, and three of her pokemon learned new attacks. Misty didn't get that. Dawn got a special for herself, and one of her pokemon evolved, and it just so happened to be a starter pokemon in preparation for either of her goals of Top Coordinator or being a Pokestylist, another of which Misty got none of.

Just look at how much development May got in three seasons of AG.
Just look at how much development Dawn got in three seasons of DP.

Compare Misty's development in Johto, and it's severely lacking. Even post Johto in AG, all she got was gym maintenance, learning how to make the Gym badges, Psyduck still can't swim, probably can't control it's psychic power, and none of her older pokemon were shown to evolve or learn new attacks. Misty deserves more development, improvement, and closure.

May was such an obvious set-up shoehorned in for Dawn to regain her confidence back, while providing the obligatory past character special at the same time. Dawn knows that May is an accomplished coordinator and has been to two Grand Festivals, so winning over her gives her an immense confidence boost and ability to strive on. And honestly, if she became so much better, why did she lose to a coordinator with not even half the experience as her?
They give some pleasant nods to the past to show what May had done not being forgotten, like the ribbon both Ash and her share, as well giving Drew & Co. cameo appearances watching the Wallace Cup. We see that she evolved some of her Pokemon and that's about it. Do we learn anything else about what she actually LEFT FOR? Sure, you can consider the Wallace Cup an extension of her goal, but isn't dealing with the water Pokemon at her gym and battling other trainers the same thing for Misty?

Oh no, she's not traveling and we all know that she needs to travel! Yeah, and? It's been shown that she's not confined to the gym. She did come to Hoenn, did she not? And canonically after Cerulean Blue to top it off.
The thing about being a Top Coordinator REQUIRES traveling. Contest matches don't come to you and you can't win ribbons or attend the GF without participating for them, hence why both May and Dawn are shown to travel to accomplish their goal of being a Top Coordinator because they literally have no other choice.
Misty on the other hand can camp off at the gym and be surrounded with the Pokemon she loves as well as having trainers come to her to practice against in a battling environment. She's still young and can travel at any point in the future (and even now, apparently). Shown by other gym leaders like Fantina, they are more than capable to leave their gym unattended for periods of time. We know that at least someone would look after Misty's gym, but who the hell is in Hearthome for Fantina? If it ever comes down to a Wallace-like situation, there is plenty of time to find a suitable replacement.



I'm not saying this excuses her lack of development in comparison to the two other girls who received much better treatment when actually on the show. The show was a different animal at the time. Misty is still a popular and loved character in the fanbase despite it because of the dynamic as her own character, not her ideals and goals.
Why is this such a bad thing?

Also, you left out Gyarados, something she shat her pants about in the original series quite a few times about. Isn't overcoming fears of Pokemon that were hindering her not some form of accomplishment?
No one is perfect and they probably aren't going to take the time to give closure to Misty at this point, but seeing an episode on her wouldn't hurt.
I just don't find her post-run episodes as shallow as Dawn and May's and while entertaining, Brock's was about anything but him. May set-up character development for Dawn and Dawn's was poorly put together, mimicking the first episode in DP but with, amg, a starter evolution that we had just seen about 20 or so episodes previously! And Brock, oh Brock. Nice to know about what happens to the gym that you handed over 600+ episodes ago.
 

Remmie

Well-Known Member
Dawn and Misty all the way. I don't like May, Max and Tracey and Brock is on the show for so long, he can rest at hope peacefully but could come back if the writers do a Hoenn plot.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
May was such an obvious set-up shoehorned in for Dawn to regain her confidence back, while providing the obligatory past character special at the same time. Dawn knows that May is an accomplished coordinator and has been to two Grand Festivals, so winning over her gives her an immense confidence boost and ability to strive on. And honestly, if she became so much better, why did she lose to a coordinator with not even half the experience as her?

Judging by fan reactions about Dawns win some people considered it as victory being done in DEM style.However while it was painfully obvious that May was more experienced coordinator tha Dawn at that point its not impossible that less experienced coordinators manage to win.We can say Dawn managed to catch May on surprise using strategy with Piplup which payed of in end being backed up with big determination to win.
I mean just look at Ash,he managed to win several times against more skilled trainers with his unconventional strategy and battling style.

They give some pleasant nods to the past to show what May had done not being forgotten, like the ribbon both Ash and her share, as well giving Drew & Co. cameo appearances watching the Wallace Cup. We see that she evolved some of her Pokemon and that's about it. Do we learn anything else about what she actually LEFT FOR?

Maybe so but we at least get to see May doing some notable step forward in her goal of becoming top coordinator with her character doing steps forward(as it was evidenced by obtaining already 3 ribbons in Johto at that point) showing big improvement in meantime through evolutions,her own established style as coordinator etc.

With Misty we didnt see much of that,Sure we get to see her getting over her Gyarados fear and being able to save gym getting it back on right track giving her some quality development but her own goals and dreams were left at standstill with no step forward being made.

Sure, you can consider the Wallace Cup an extension of her goal, but isn't dealing with the water Pokemon at her gym and battling other trainers the same thing for Misty?

Not really because being gym leader has nothing to do with goal of becoming water pokemon master.It can at best serve as some kind of "stepping stone"but as its been showed in original series Misty goal requires traveling just like Ash goal does to explore new regions and pokemon being able to learn a lot more this way and battle stronger trainers than you can by staying at one place.
Past also showed us how there exist task someone needs to enter and accomplish in order to achieve this goal as Whirl Cup tournament showed with water master being basically best one type trainer in world.Something which E4 members are with some like Lorelei or Lance being labeled as masters of their respective types.

Competitions which Misty needs to enter to advance her goal(like Whirl tournament showed) wont come to her if she is at gym not being able to learn things which you can only do by traveling.Every gym leader who became something more left gym to improve his skill and learn more before obtaining some higher position because of gym holding him back.

We know that at least someone would look after Misty's gym, but who the hell is in Hearthome for Fantina? If it ever comes down to a Wallace-like situation, there is plenty of time to find a suitable replacement.

What Champion Jared 14 try to point out is how writers didnt resolved whole issue about Cerulean gym with anime canon showing how there doesnt exist currently suitable replacement which would allow Misty to leave gym for longer period of time.As we can see with chronicles and her last cameo in "Real Cleffa Hanger"it was showed how she doesnt have luxury to leave gym for longer when her sisters rushed her ho,me back with main reason why she stayed at gym in first place after departure in Johto being exactly sisters irresponsibility with Misty not having someone to rely on.

I'm not saying this excuses her lack of development in comparison to the two other girls who received much better treatment when actually on the show. The show was a different animal at the time. Misty is still a popular and loved character in the fanbase despite it because of the dynamic as her own character, not her ideals and goals.
Why is this such a bad thing?

True but while Misty is liked because of her great personality many people find her dreams of becoming water master and preference to train one type being unique aspect of her character too wanting that her story receives some proper closure with her goal being advanced.

At gym Misty dream is currently going nowhere.

No one is perfect and they probably aren't going to take the time to give closure to Misty at this point, but seeing an episode on her wouldn't hurt.

Probably because in order for Misty to receive some big character development which would advance her story and goal allowing for some sort of closure she would need more screen time than one or two episode cameo(like return to main cast) which most likely wont happen at this point.

I just don't find her post-run episodes as shallow as Dawn and May's and while entertaining, Brock's was about anything but him. May set-up character development for Dawn and Dawn's was poorly put together, mimicking the first episode in DP but with, amg, a starter evolution that we had just seen about 20 or so episodes previously! And Brock, oh Brock. Nice to know about what happens to the gym that you handed over 600+ episodes ago.

Definitely agreeing with Brock case.His special in DP barely focused on his decision of becoming doctor with 90% of episode being focused on his brother Forrest and how to save gym from PIA inspection.How sad is that?

We dont even get to know if Brocks goal of becoming doctor requires something else to do aside from studying as well not knowing if he plans to become traveling doctor or open daycare center at Pewter.Brock really got short end of stick in his special.
 
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