Who is Stronger Ash's Charizard or Ash's Infernape w/Blaze activated?

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

BW Charizard is obviously stronger, but Electivire with its Motordrive activated could have a case over Charizard in BF

With what?Speed?So what that doesn't make it stronger than Charizard at all,I never saw Paul's Electivire as a threat to the likes of Ash's Charizard because I knew that it would win anyday of the week.Since when was Electivire the measuring stick?Before XY Ash's Charizard was the measuring stick.Not Electivire.Not Infernape.

By natural progression it should be BF Charizard < Hypothetical Sinnoh Charizard < BW Charizard.

It clearly got stronger,it was at charicific valley the entire time when Ash called it back in late BW.

Let's be real, the Articuno Charizard beat in BF was a wild Articuno which wasn't trained or anything like that, and we know from the depiction of the Legendary Birds in the anime that they are very likely among the weakest legendaries the anime has depicted.

So you're just writing Charizard's win over Articuno off as weak and not all that impressive just because it wasn't in full ownership of a trainer.That win is a big part of Charizard's resume/legacy,writing it off as weak is pretty pathetic.Charizard barley managed to win over it and you're saying it wasn't all that impressive.If you're gonna lowball Articuno what does that make of Charizard?

Fact is that there was a certain Zapdos(another legendary bird) which was getting its butt kicked by freaking Noivern.

That Zapdos isn't on the same level as that Articuno,unless you're trying to tell me that Noivern can take out Articuno just because it did what it did against a Zapdos.If that's the case then it would be in the tier 1 range,but I know for a fact that you have it much lower than that and no one believes Noivern is kicking Articuno's a**.

Pretty sure that it was already well established in the anime that Infernape's special Blaze was a lot more different than a normal Blaze, which gives Infernape an insane boost from all angles, sheerly increasing its raw power and stamina. This is the reason character statements regarding Infernape's Blazer were outright contradicted in battles. Paul himself talked about this special Blaze he saw it Infernape as a Chimchar.

Tell me something I don't know

 

[Genaller]

Charizard’s win over Articuno at the time was ground breaking and definitely the best feat of an Ash Pokémon till then though its significance has decreased as Ash’s other Pokémon have attained more impressive feats. That win puts Zard in the E4 non-Ace spectrum at least though it definitely wasn’t E4 Ace lvl in BF based on the fact that he was evenly matched with the non-Ace of a Frontier Brain (sure Brandon is comparable to E4 lvl but it’d be ridiculous if his non-Ace was on the lvl of E4 Aces). BW Charizard based on his performance against Iris’s Dragonite probably is in the E4 Ace spectrum though most likely around the lower - middle side of it.

Infernape with Special Blaze activated as of the Sinnoh League is pretty much Flint’s Infernape lvl (think of Flint’s Infernape as an ideal for Ash’s Infernape; Infernape has a look long way to go before reaching that lvl though when its back is against the wall, it can achieve its ideal but for only a short period of time).

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Infernape with Special Blaze activated as of the Sinnoh League is pretty much Flint’s Infernape lvl

Ash's Infernape is officially overrated

 

[345ash-greninja]

With what?Speed?So what that doesn't make it stronger than Charizard at all,I never saw Paul's Electivire as a threat to the likes of Ash's Charizard because I knew that it would win anyday of the week.Since when was Electivire the measuring stick?Before XY Ash's Charizard was the measuring stick.Not Electivire.Not Infernape.

Electivire(with Motordrive activated), won't be that much of a threat for Charizard in BW, but could likely be for Charizard in BF, especially with type advantage. Like I said earlier, Charizard wasn't any better than Brandon's Dusclops as of what we saw, which was quite some time after the Articuno fight. Brandon's Dusclops should be about =/> Brandon's peer Regis like Registeel and Regice(obviously Regirock would be quite a bit stronger than both of those Regis.

Electivire showed in the Sinnoh League, sheer power sufficient enough to destroy Barry's Empoleon, who is a High Tier 2. Charizard seemingly did something similar in the Johto League by dispatching Gary's Scizor(presumably High Tier 2 as well), though it wasn't quite similarly impressive like that since Scizor had 4× type disadvantage against Charizard compared to Empoleon having 2× type disadvantage against Electivire. But Charizard after his training of one saga and coming back in BF would very likely able to utterly demolish Empoleon in the same manner how Electivire did so that's about it.

If we factor in Electivire's Motordrive ability activating here, things turn out to be a bit different here. Obviously I'm talking about Charizard as of BF here, Charizard as of end DP or in BW will obviously be more stronger.

It clearly got stronger,it was at charicific valley the entire time when Ash called it back in late BW.

Obviously, that's why I mentioned it in the first place.

So you're just writing Charizard's win over Articuno off as weak and not all that impressive just because it wasn't in full ownership of a trainer.That win is a big part of Charizard's resume/legacy,writing it off as weak is pretty pathetic.Charizard barley managed to win over it and you're saying it wasn't all that impressive.If you're gonna lowball Articuno what does that make of Charizard?

I'm not saying that Articuno was in general weak per se, comparing to quite some non-legendary Pokemon it's obviously quite more strong, but how strong was it compared to the many other powerful Legendary Pokémon depicted in the anime like say Mew, Deoxys, Groudon, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem....or say even legendaries like Darkrai, Latios? If you see the depiction of the many other Legendaries we have seen like in the anime, then compared to most of them the Legendary Birds have been portrayed as comparatively weaker. In general, Articuno was definitely strong, but compared to many other incredibly powerful (some even God Tier) legendaries we have seen in the anime, Articuno doesn't quite match up. So there doesn't quite exist tangible proof in claiming that Articuno is automatically stronger than many other top calibre non-legendary Pokemon depicted in the anime TBH.

That Zapdos isn't on the same level as that Articuno,unless you're trying to tell me that Noivern can take out Articuno just because it did what it did against a Zapdos.If that's the case then it would be in the tier 1 range,but I know for a fact that you have it much lower than that and no one believes Noivern is kicking Articuno's a**.

I'm not quite claiming that Noivern can beat that Zapdos or Articuno, what I was trying to point out is that there exists certain wild Legendary Birds to whom even Noivern, who is clearly among the weaker side of Ash's Pokemon, managed to deal some significant damage. Yeah Articuno commanded by Noland was definitely on a higher level than that Zapdos, but at least we can't claim that there was a momuntal/astronomical difference either, since both were Legendary Birds and were wild too. The thing is that the Legendary Birds were certainly not capable of utterly fodderizing Ash's Talonflame/Noivern. There definitely at least exists some powerful, top-calibre non-legendary Pokemon who are capable of utterly demolishing Talonflame/Noivern without any struggle.

Tell me something I don't know

I was just pointing it out that Infernape's Blaze is indeed a lot different than normal cases of Blaze.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Like I said earlier, Charizard wasn't any better than Brandon's Dusclops as of what we saw, which was quite some time after the Articuno fight. Brandon's Dusclops should be about =/> Brandon's peer Regis like Registeel and Regice(obviously Regirock would be quite a bit stronger than both of those Regis.

Don't hit me up ever again

 

[nickdt]

Infernape cannot activate Blaze from the beginning, since that is not possible.

Also: Charizard has never activated Blaze, meaning its stronger even when Infernape is in Blaze mode.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Infernape cannot activate Blaze from the beginning, since that is not possible?

Also: Charizard has never activated Blaze, meaning its stronger even when Infernape is in Blaze mode.

Um, are you trying to say that Infernape's Blaze was a similar thing compared to normal cases of Blaze?

Pretty site that it was well established and well-pointed out in the anime that Infernape's Blaze was clearly a much special case where it gives Infernape an insane stat boost and increases its raw power, stamina and durability by a significant margin. It's pretty much an uber power boost compared to the other normal cases of Blaze which only increases the power of Fire type moves.

 

[nickdt]

Um, are you trying to say that Infernape's Blaze was a similar thing compared to normal cases of Blaze?

Pretty site that it was well established and well-pointed out in the anime that Infernape's Blaze was clearly a much special case where it gives Infernape an insane stat boost and increases its raw power, stamina and durability by a significant margin. It's pretty much an uber power boost compared to the other normal cases of Blaze which only increases the power of Fire type moves.

No i am saying Charizard is stronger because it was never pushed too its limits because Blaze didn't activate (And there is no way Charizard has Solar Power, since Blaze was introduced in gen III and Solar Power in IV).

If Charizard would have activated Blaze, it would have been similair too Infernapes.

 

[Genaller]

No i am saying Charizard is stronger because it was never pushed too its limits because Blaze didn't activate (And there is no way Charizard has Solar Power, since Blaze was introduced in gen III and Solar Power in IV).

You have no way of knowing what Charizard’s ability is not even if he has 1. You want to talk about what gen stuff was in then here’s a news flash for you; Ash’s Charizard was introduced in gen 1 where there were NO ABILITIES. Of course the same can be said for Pikachu though Gen 3 onwards Static retroactively became his ability a.k.a what gen stuff was introduced in doesn’t mean jack to the writers. Since Charizard has never shown an ability they could retroactively give him Blaze or Solar Power or they could just not give him an ability. Finally I’m pretty sure that Charizard vs Articuno was a down to the wire extreme diff match that Charizard barely won since they ref almost declared Charizard unable to battle before Noland stopped him (hence Charizard must have been in critical condition).

If Charizard would have activated Blaze, it would have been similair too Infernapes.

You clearly haven’t watched DP properly. Go watch Paul vs Roark and observe Chimchar’s Blaze in that battle then go watch Paul’s flashback of when he first met Chimchar (it was sometime during the Hearthome Tag Battle episodes). They are very explicitly 2 different states even though both are referred to as “Blaze”. If Charizard were to get Blaze it would be the sort that Chimchar used against Roark or that May’s Blaziken used against Ash’s Sceptile and most certainly not the type of Blaze that Infernape used against Volkner and Paul.

 

[evcgvhjhkjmngcvhghv]

You have no way of knowing what Charizard’s ability is not even if he has 1. You want to talk about what gen stuff was in then here’s a news flash for you; Ash’s Charizard was introduced in gen 1 where there were NO ABILITIES. Of course the same can be said for Pikachu though Gen 3 onwards Static retroactively became his ability a.k.a what gen stuff was introduced in doesn’t mean jack to the writers. Since Charizard has never shown an ability they could retroactively give him Blaze or Solar Power or they could just not give him an ability. Finally I’m pretty sure that Charizard vs Articuno was a down to the wire extreme diff match that Charizard barely won since they ref almost declared Charizard unable to battle before Noland stopped him (hence Charizard must have been in critical condition).


You clearly haven’t watched DP properly. Go watch Paul vs Roark and observe Chimchar’s Blaze in that battle then go watch Paul’s flashback of when he first met Chimchar (it was sometime during the Hearthome Tag Battle episodes). They are very explicitly 2 different states even though both are referred to as “Blaze”. If Charizard were to get Blaze it would be the sort that Chimchar used against Roark or that May’s Blaziken used against Ash’s Sceptile and most certainly not the type of Blaze that Infernape used against Volkner and Paul.

and that blaze will probably be more then enough to get the win on infernape

 

[evcgvhjhkjmngcvhghv]

Charizard’s win over Articuno at the time was ground breaking and definitely the best feat of an Ash Pokémon till then though its significance has decreased as Ash’s other Pokémon have attained more impressive feats. That win puts Zard in the E4 non-Ace spectrum at least though it definitely wasn’t E4 Ace lvl in BF based on the fact that he was evenly matched with the non-Ace of a Frontier Brain (sure Brandon is comparable to E4 lvl but it’d be ridiculous if his non-Ace was on the lvl of E4 Aces). BW Charizard based on his performance against Iris’s Dragonite probably is in the E4 Ace spectrum though most likely around the lower - middle side of it.

Infernape with Special Blaze activated as of the Sinnoh League is pretty much Flint’s Infernape lvl (think of Flint’s Infernape as an ideal for Ash’s Infernape; Infernape has a look long way to go before reaching that lvl though when its back is against the wall, it can achieve its ideal but for only a short period of time).

he is on elite 4 ace tier level because in fact he beat articuno who is as strong if not stronger then the elite four as stated by that one fat guy from the battle frontier the battle frontier are as strong if not stronger then the elite 4 and charzarid got way more stronger due to the years of training it has gotten. so id say charzarid is elite 4 ace tier or maybe even higher not on the lower middle side of it but this is an old question so ya

 

[Morax]

I never understood why people make these comparisons? This ain't dragon ball Z, feats and gimmicks don't matter. It all depends on who's the bigger shillmon and it's obviously charizard. Even if infernape defeated arceus, charizard will ***** slap him out of the ring because shillzard losing is bad marketing.

 

[Ragnarok4]

Definitely Charizard..... the lizard was in constant training against members of his own species until Unova, faced Articuno and defeated him. Infernape had trouble defeating Volkner's Luxray exhausted (received 3 iron tails). Infernape had to use Blaze to earn that medal, plus , Flint infernape had no problem defeating him

I don't see how Infernape is better than Charizard.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Definitely Charizard..... the lizard was in constant training against members of his own species until Unova, faced Articuno and defeated him. Infernape had trouble defeating Volkner's Luxray exhausted (received 3 iron tails). Infernape had to use Blaze to earn that medal, plus , Flint infernape had no problem defeating him

I don't see how Infernape is better than Charizard.

Yeah Charizard is pulling off the same feats as Infernape without the reliance of an ability.

OS-BW was Ash's strongest pokemon
OS-Current is Ash's strongest base pokemon

1.Charizard (BW)/Infernape (Blaze)
2.Charizard (BF/Articuno)
3.Charizard (JL)
4.Infernape
5.Incineroar
6.Charizard (Pre Charicific Valley Training)
7.Talonflame
8.Torkoal (Oak Ranch Training)
9.Pignite
10.Quilava/Torkoal (HL)

 

[Kuzehiko]

I'm giving it to Infernape only if he gets to use blaze at its max potential otherwise Charizard wins given that he's been traveling and training with Ash longer than Infernape. Charizard's loss against Dusclops is a huge stain out of all its battle records. It wasn't even Dusknoir but Dusclops SMH

 

[evcgvhjhkjmngcvhghv]

I'm giving it to Infernape only if he gets to use blaze at its max potential otherwise Charizard wins given that he's been traveling and training with Ash longer than Infernape. Charizard's loss against Dusclops is a huge stain out of all its battle records. It wasn't even Dusknoir but Dusclops SMH

oh ya but he is way more stronger then dusclops so ya I dont think infernape max potential blaze will win because infernape dosent have that much moves to damage charzarid with also charzarid has been doing alot of training since that bullshit lost against dusclops so ya id give the win to charzarid due to at least having a flying type move to do damage infernape has dig mach punch flamethrower and flareblitz I dont think that's going to do much in a fight against a fire and flying
type so uh ya I'd give it to charzarid

 

[evcgvhjhkjmngcvhghv]

\

You’re forgetting a key factor; Electivire had WAY MORE HEALTH than Infernape prior to Blaze activating (since it was a drawn out battle where Infernape had to deal with Poison and Ash also deliberately had it take a direct hit Thunder) yet despite such a handicap was able to win. I really don’t think Charizard could beat Motordrive Electivire from the position that Blaze Infernape did (so Zard would start with the health that Infernape had right before activating Blaze and would also be Poisoned while Electivire would have the health it had when Infernape activated Blaze).


Yeah Charizard doesn’t have the raw power of Blaze Infernape. He has a possibility of winning but I’d give it to Blazeape 6/10. Actually even if Charizard has Blaze the outcome wouldn’t really change since regular Blaze only mildly increases the power of fire type moves unlike Infernape special Blaze that offered it a substatinal all-around stat boost.

more like blazeape 3/10 times infernape dosent even have any moves to do any real damage to damage charzarid charzarid at least has a flying move so how is blaze ape winning 6/10 with dig flamethrower flare blitz and mach punch against a fire and flying type so how is he winning 6/10?? times .

 

[evcgvhjhkjmngcvhghv]

I disagree; I do think it’s stronger (in terms of raw destructive power at least) when in Blaze.

Sure I’ve never disagreed with that.

Eh more like Charizard wins in 2 scenarios though yeah it’s the overall better Pokémon.

3 secnarios infernape dosent even have a moves that can hurt charzarid :/ you just lowballing charzarid at this point :/

 

[evcgvhjhkjmngcvhghv]

You’re forgetting a key factor; Electivire had WAY MORE HEALTH than Infernape prior to Blaze activating (since it was a drawn out battle where Infernape had to deal with Poison and Ash also deliberately had it take a direct hit Thunder) yet despite such a handicap was able to win. I really don’t think Charizard could beat Motordrive Electivire from the position that Blaze Infernape did (so Zard would start with the health that Infernape had right before activating Blaze and would also be Poisoned while Electivire would have the health it had when Infernape activated Blaze).


Yeah Charizard doesn’t have the raw power of Blaze Infernape. He has a possibility of winning but I’d give it to Blazeape 6/10. Actually even if Charizard has Blaze the outcome wouldn’t really change since regular Blaze only mildly increases the power of fire type moves unlike Infernape special Blaze that offered it a substatinal all-around stat boost.

charzarid can easily beat electivire.electivire isn't even close to his level charzarid was on non elite four level in bf and also he was equal to dusclops also it was stated that the bf was as strong if not stronger then the elite 4 and Brandon was the champion of the bf and charzarid was equal to dusclops and charzarid is alot more stronger then he was back then so bw charzarid is at least elite 4 ace level if not higher so he can easily can beat motor drive electivire but this is an old question

 

[evcgvhjhkjmngcvhghv]

The guy I responded to said that Charizard was never nerfed. That’s obviously not true given my example.

Well the point is charzarid got nefered and infernape got owned by mewoth's fury swipes of love so inernape also got nerfed so ya