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Who would you choose?

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I don't get why age should matter. Serena looks younger anime wise so they can do that for really anyone. Plus anime charecters never look the age they are supposed to be to begin with.
 

Blessed

Well-Known Member
They should have just condensed Johto to 2 years, so Misty would have a total of a 4-year run like May/Dawn.

5 years for a female without a tangible goal is exactly why Misty was left on the sidelines for most of Johto.
She had her many moments into the spotlight at least. Not to mention being one of the most popular females of this series despite her being into the "sidelines".
 
She had her many moments into the spotlight at least. Not to mention being one of the most popular females of this series despite her being into the "sidelines".
But that was because back then none of the other girls existed yet, so there was nobody else to compare her to. Who were we supposed to compare Misty to back in 2001?

Casey, Duplica or Sakura? There were just no other main girls who regularly appeared.
 

Baei

Member
But that was because back then none of the other girls existed yet, so there was nobody else to compare her to. Who were we supposed to compare Misty to back in 2001?

Casey, Duplica or Sakura? There were just no other main girls who regularly appeared.
Dude, what's your problem? Misty didn't have a role in Johto? Did you even watch Johto because I did again just last week. Misty battled Ash for Totodile, evolved her Poliwag, captured a Corsola, battled Ash again in the Whirl Cup, evolved her Poliwhirl and then left the cast to take over as Cerulean Gym Leader. She also had many roles in filler episodes. Misty in Johto alone did more then Iris did in BW. Misty also has appeared in OS, AG, (lure reference in DP) and flashbacks in BW.
 

Nodame

You’re such a baka
But that was because back then none of the other girls existed yet, so there was nobody else to compare her to. Who were we supposed to compare Misty to back in 2001?

Casey, Duplica or Sakura? There were just no other main girls who regularly appeared.
Nonesense, she's still one of the most popular. Her lack of development didn't harm her popularity, and NO other girl have surpassd her.
 
If you say so. If that's what you want to think.

As for the topic I do wonder what the anime would have been like if Misty and Brock left early. Johto could have been treated like a new series the way all the other gens were instead.
 
If you say so. If that's what you want to think.

As for the topic I do wonder what the anime would have been like if Misty and Brock left early. Johto could have been treated like a new series the way all the other gens were instead.
It's what I would have preferred actually, but I would have wanted Johto to be a full reboot by getting rid of Ash and Team Rocket also. It would have been way better if the anime just copied the games with the character replacing in every new gen. then the anime wouldn't be in this endless cycle mess it is in now with Ash and Team Rocket.
 

Kuvario

I am who I am...because of them.
It's what I would have preferred actually, but I would have wanted Johto to be a full reboot by getting rid of Ash and Team Rocket also. It would have been way better if the anime just copied the games with the character replacing in every new gen. then the anime wouldn't be in this endless cycle mess it is in now with Ash and Team Rocket.
Actually it's the writers fault NOT TR and Ash.
 
I would have liked Misty to stay for Johto, but again only if Johto was condensed into only 2 years giving her a 4-year run.

If Misty left at the end of Orange she would have only been around for about 120 or so episodes. Remember Kanto was only 82 episodes and Orange only about 35.
 

iraqmaster

Well-Known Member
If need be, they could have also took the route of taking a NPC female trainer class, such as a picknicker, and creating an entirely new character out of it......
 

chalkus

Well-Known Member
It's what I would have preferred actually, but I would have wanted Johto to be a full reboot by getting rid of Ash and Team Rocket also. It would have been way better if the anime just copied the games with the character replacing in every new gen. then the anime wouldn't be in this endless cycle mess it is in now with Ash and Team Rocket.
Getting rid of Ash wasn't so simple. Pokemon's popularity was off the charts back then and Ash was the face of the show next to Pikachu. Replacing him would have been suicidal for the anime. It would have been like DBZ getting rid of Goku. You can't just nix the face of a product just like that without consequences. It was up to the writers to make Ash compelling enough for Pokemon's run and they failed to live up to it. Even if Ash did go, what are the chances of getting anyone better to replace him.

And I had completely forgotten about Casey. She was this crazy baseball fan, right. I wouldn't have minded seeing her wildly swing her bat at anyone who insulted her favourite team for the duration of Johto.
 
Getting rid of Ash wasn't so simple. Pokemon's popularity was off the charts back then and Ash was the face of the show next to Pikachu. Replacing him would have been suicidal for the anime. It would have been like DBZ getting rid of Goku. You can't just nix the face of a product just like that without consequences. It was up to the writers to make Ash compelling enough for Pokemon's run and they failed to live up to it. Even if Ash did go, what are the chances of getting anyone better to replace him.

And I had completely forgotten about Casey. She was this crazy baseball fan, right. I wouldn't have minded seeing her wildly swing her bat at anyone who insulted her favourite team for the duration of Johto.
I'd have to disagree. If the anime followed the games in replacing the entire cast, the anime would still be popular since it would be advertising the games. The writers really tied themselves down since they kept Ash and Team Rocket.

As for replacing Ash back when Kanto ended I still believe that it would have worked well and the anime would probably still have been popular back then since it was the current fad.
 
I'd have to disagree. If the anime followed the games in replacing the entire cast, the anime would still be popular since it would be advertising the games. The writers really tied themselves down since they kept Ash and Team Rocket.

As for replacing Ash back when Kanto ended I still believe that it would have worked well and the anime would probably still have been popular back then since it was the current fad.
I'm not sure if this is a rumor or not, but I recall hearing that Jimmy was meant to be the new Ash for the Johto saga. However, people reacted negatively towards that, and so, Jimmy was kept as a special character. Again, not sure if this is a rumor or not; feel free to bite my head off for spreading rumors.
 

chalkus

Well-Known Member
I'd have to disagree. If the anime followed the games in replacing the entire cast, the anime would still be popular since it would be advertising the games. The writers really tied themselves down since they kept Ash and Team Rocket.

As for replacing Ash back when Kanto ended I still believe that it would have worked well and the anime would probably still have been popular back then since it was the current fad.
The main characters in the gen 1 and 2 games were generic mutes so it was easy to replace them. And even if they wanted to replace the entire cast for Johto, they wouldn't have after the reaction Tracey got, which forced Brock back in. In recent years it is easier to replace cast members every season since the show is no longer as popular but if the writers before AG had any idea that nixing Misty would cost them fans, she would still be there now.
 

Kuvario

I am who I am...because of them.
I'd have to disagree. If the anime followed the games in replacing the entire cast, the anime would still be popular since it would be advertising the games. The writers really tied themselves down since they kept Ash and Team Rocket.

As for replacing Ash back when Kanto ended I still believe that it would have worked well and the anime would probably still have been popular back then since it was the current fad.
Ash and Pikachu were the faces of the franchise in the 90s, so replacing them would've been BAD, and could've costed them to much. Replacing Ash with Jimmy or Max at the end of XY would be better, since 99% of the fans hate Ash for differing reasons, from the stupidest reasons to the most valid reasons.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
I'd have to disagree. If the anime followed the games in replacing the entire cast, the anime would still be popular since it would be advertising the games. The writers really tied themselves down since they kept Ash and Team Rocket.

As for replacing Ash back when Kanto ended I still believe that it would have worked well and the anime would probably still have been popular back then since it was the current fad.
Anime follows games more than ever before in newer sagas, yet it is hardly popular compared to older sagas? What does this tell us?

How turning anime in replica of games, 20 minute advertizing tool which lacks depth, creativity from writers mind to make it to extent separate from product its trying to promote having its own setting, exciting story and characters is not a very good strategy. Taking away from its appeal and people enthusiasm in staying faithful to show continuing in following it. Since at that point might just have stick to games with no sense of adventure and innovation ever being present in making story unpredictable enough to not being able to tell in what direction it will go. Making it known from start what characters, features and events they can expect if games are followed so strictly killing away any innovation.

Needless to say if writers replaced Ash that early i doubt pokemon would even reach half of popularity it had. For once it would never have driving force, iconic character with who people could associate pokemon series, stable porotagonist in who viewers could invest, feel sorry for him and being able ti relate to himself wanting to see him succeed.

Pokemon series would never have established mascot which is reliable source of bringing money, increasing popularity by alluring new fans toward franchise and making sure to build reputation to heights it managed to achieve over the years. In sense of having established story and characters which are on one big adventure exploring world, gradually growing forward and dealing with various exciting challenges put infront of them. Having stable, filled with continuity and consistent following anime.

Furthermore Ash story, but TR, Misty or Brock not being able to get fleshed out even to extent they were or even had chance of receiving any real conclusion(not like they ever got any, but at least from longer stay past Kanto they came closer toward their dreams, got over some issues, gave us chance to learn more about them bringing new dimension to characters). How much development Ash would even be able to receive if he lasted for just Kanto?

Im not even sure that pokemon series would been able to survive without Ash around. Back than character replacing was looked with lot of disapproval from fans.

I believe i dont have to remind how much of uproar Brock replacing in Orange Islands caused, and in Misty case one third of older fanbase completely abandoned pokemon series with complaints about her departure, unresolved story and all that potential missing her antics and charm she brought being all over the internet.

Getting rid of Ash would have killed pokemon for good with series losing its main representative, hero who is liked and stands for pokemon(like Goku does with Dragon Ball, Luffy with One Piece, Dan for Bakugan etc).

No one in here understands how we who complain about Ash are dying breed, irrelevant minority with Ash being still widely popular and liked by many fans. Both older ones and especially target audience(younger generations) finding in Ash positive role model, hero with who they can relate themselves to.

I wouldn't have replaced anyone? If anything I would have Misty and May be recurring characters in DP and BW.
Agreed. I dont see any reason to forever abandon some character like he never existed in first place, has story which never met closure and potential to push him through deeper, more challenging level of development.

For Misty and May there existed several opportunities to bring them back, play prevalent role in story again, make peple happy giving us update on characters and enjoy in their characterization and way they would click of with others. For example just in Misty case there was world tournament, several water themed plots from which she could benefit greatly (like Wallace, Juan, Team Aqua, new water pokemon, possible expansion from Whirl Cup).

Hell writers could have done actual continuation to her story by building on desire to become top water trainer in world and worshipping of Lorekei becoming semi permanent character which is on journey to improve skills, enter events and battle all kind of experts in aim of becoming E4 member apprentice making big step forward in her water master career serving as logical way to step up from gym position. Occasionally bumping in Ash and co or even joiningh them for awhile.
Giving us chance to enjoy in her flirty escapades, hotheaded, sassy nature and adventurous , lively attitude in forming new contacts and grounds on which character goes forward.

Same goes for May, Max etc.

Im tired from constant rinse and repeat dumping companions halfway unfinished formula dragging on for years.That's highly uncreative attempt to keep some show exciting with key for long term popularity lying in reusing previous companions which proved to be liked and successful setting up groundwork for loyal fandom which sticks to anime wanting to see how will friendship between them grow and in what way things will resolve making them grow attached to characters. Actually care waiting in expectancy some info.
I keep asking myself is it fair to never have them on screen again giving us chance to enjoy in characters we like interacting with others, have them develop more and battle, deal with trials and flaws making mistakes and working toward their dreams? To have them erased never to be seen again?

And in my case answer is no.
 
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Kuvario

I am who I am...because of them.
Anime follows games more than ever before in newer sagas, yet it is hardly popular compared to older sagas? What does this tell us?

How turning anime in replica of games, 20 minute advertizing tool which lacks depth, creativity from writers mind to make it to extent separate from product its trying to promote having its own setting, exciting story and characters is not a very good strategy. Taking away from its appeal and people enthusiasm in staying faithful to show continuing in following it. Since at that point might just have stick to games with no sense of adventure and innovation ever being present in making story unpredictable enough to not being able to tell in what direction it will go. Making it known from start what characters, features and events they can expect if games are followed so strictly killing away any innovation.

Needless to say if writers replaced Ash that early i doubt pokemon would even reach half of popularity it had. For once it would never have driving force, iconic character with who people could associate pokemon series, stable porotagonist in who viewers could invest, feel sorry for him and being able ti relate to himself wanting to see him succeed.

Pokemon series would never have established mascot which is reliable source of bringing money, increasing popularity by alluring new fans toward franchise and making sure to build reputation to heights it managed to achieve over the years. In sense of having established story and characters which are on one big adventure exploring world, gradually growing forward and dealing with various exciting challenges put infront of them. Having stable, filled with continuity and consistent following anime.

Furthermore Ash story, but TR, Misty or Brock not being able to get fleshed out even to extent they were or even had chance of receiving any real conclusion(not like they ever got any, but at least from longer stay past Kanto they came closer toward their dreams, got over some issues, gave us chance to learn more about them bringing new dimension to characters). How much development Ash would even be able to receive if he lasted for just Kanto?

Im not even sure that pokemon series would been able to survive without Ash around. Back than character replacing was looked with lot of disapproval from fans.

I believe i dont have to remind how much of uproar Brock replacing in Orange Islands caused, and in Misty case one third of older fanbase completely abandoned pokemon series with complaints about her departure, unresolved story and all that potential missing her antics and charm she brought being all over the internet.

Getting rid of Ash would have killed pokemon for good with series losing its main representative, hero who is liked and stands for pokemon(like Goku does with Dragon Ball, Luffy with One Piece, Dan for Bakugan etc).

No one in here understands how we who complain about Ash are dying breed, irrelevant minority with Ash being still widely popular and liked by many fans. Both older ones and especially target audience(younger generations) finding in Ash positive role model, hero with who they can relate themselves to.



Agreed. I dont see any reason to forever abandon some character like he never existed in first place, has story which never met closure and potential to push him through deeper, more challenging level of development.

For Misty and May there existed several opportunities to bring them back, play prevalent role in story again, make peple happy giving us update on characters and enjoy in their characterization and way they would click of with others. For example just in Misty case there was world tournament, several water themed plots from which she could benefit greatly (like Wallace, Juan, Team Aqua, new water pokemon, possible expansion from Whirl Cup).

Hell writers could have done actual continuation to her story by building on desire to become top water trainer in world and worshipping of Lorekei becoming semi permanent character which is on journey to improve skills, enter events and battle all kind of experts in aim of becoming E4 member apprentice making big step forward in her water master career serving as logical way to step up from gym position. Occasionally bumping in Ash and co or even joiningh them for awhile.
Giving us chance to enjoy in her flirty escapades, hotheaded, sassy nature and adventurous , lively attitude in forming new contacts and grounds on which character goes forward.

Same goes for May, Max etc.

Im tired from constant rinse and repeat dumping companions halfway unfinished formula dragging on for years.That's highly uncreative attempt to keep some show exciting with key for long term popularity lying in reusing previous companions which proved to be liked and successful setting up groundwork for loyal fandom which sticks to anime wanting to see how will friendship between them grow and in what way things will resolve making them grow attached to characters. Actually care waiting in expectancy some info.
I keep asking myself is it fair to never have them on screen again giving us chance to enjoy in characters we like interacting with others, have them develop more and battle, deal with trials and flaws making mistakes and working toward their dreams? To have them erased never to be seen again?

And in my case answer is no.
Totally, the companions should have had more development since Max and Misty are in dire need of it.

And about your response to Dawn+Serena Fan, I've been saying this too long, replacing Ash and TR is worth nothing if we don't get new writers, so it's the writers fault not Ash and TR
 
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Aegiscalibur

Add Witty Title Here
Anime follows games more than ever before in newer sagas, yet it is hardly popular compared to older sagas? What does this tell us?
This tells us that the biggest marketing hype has died out long ago, the points of interest of the target demographic have changed, and competition in the anime industry has become more fierce.
 
Ash and Pikachu were the faces of the franchise in the 90s, so replacing them would've been BAD, and could've costed them too much. Replacing Ash with Jimmy or Max at the end of XY would be better, since 99% of the fans hate Ash for differing reasons, from the stupidest reasons to the most valid reasons.
Wait, how is it 99%, Ash has more than 1% of fans.
 
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