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Why almost everybody here hates Iris?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by Hanto, Oct 2, 2018.

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  1. Hanto

    Hanto Water Addiction

    I found her character very interesting and well-done even with limited screentime she got (not a co-star level like Dawn or May). She got cool pokemon team with diverse personalities, battles a lot and was a very skillful trainer (not like girls nowadays since XY), had creative relationships with Georgia, Cilan (science VS paranormal things), Ash (brother-sister rivalry) and even not her rivals such Trip or Bianca. Yes, the writers brought her a Dragonite, but story-wise it was a lot better than Togekiss on the silver plate back to the DP era. At least the mean and edgy dragon was disobidient and has to work on friendship with its trainer, not Togekiss that magically accepted Dawn. Yeah, sometimes she was kinda rude towards Ash, but a) he was a stupid brat b) writers clearly tryed to emulate the original trio chemistry.
    Her victory VS Pikachu was proper, her catchphrase was not that annoying because BW Ash truly was such a little kid. And her words were kinda funny cause she was a liitle kid too, guess writers wanted to show us that fact.
    Whats wrong with her? Why poorly developed character without any progression like Mallow or Serena are fan favourite? Because every girl companion should be a damsel in distress or what?
    Moonlight Starlight likes this.
  2. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    She had a hubris but I appreciate she was the last Pokegirl to have it REALLY come down on her in terms of being a character flaw. All her Pokemon had obedience issues and even some of her victories were called out for being spurious and not meaning anything on her experience as a trainer (has any other trainer actually been called out for WINNING wrong? That's a unique development, especially in a show that revels in plot armour). She was an egotist but it stemmed from an inferiority complex to keep her sympathetic.

    Concerning why she gets hate, I guess it's because the execution could sometimes be obnoxious, especially with the repetitive catchphrase and the more obnoxious dub voice. Also unlike OS Ash with Misty, BW Ash was more laid back and just kinda dumb instead of an impetuous rookie, so less of a worthy opponent for Iris' teasing (despite it being WAY more playful than Misty's for the most part).

    Also, it was sort of the point they started to favour pampering the girls from getting humiliated as often as the boys, such as her avoiding slapstick gag (though it wasn't consistent) or her maybe given too many upper hands, including the ones over Ash that some thought further spat on his former experience. I suppose to some this made her a bit of a Karma Houdini compared to Misty who regularly got her pride wounded. It was more subtle than with the XY/SM girls however since she did get SOME indiscriminate moments like Ash where she was put through the wringer to make her sympathetic (Bonnie was almost as much of an egotistical brat as Iris (punctuated by the same dub actor but with twice the shrillness), but almost NEVER got her comeuppance, while Iris got it, just maybe not as often as she should have).

    She was also the last Pokegirl to really have battles. PROPER BATTLES. As in ones where she takes hits back and has to use developed strategy and she was allowed to just play it all the way through with no interruptions, regardless to whether she won or lost (which she done both).

    Funnily enough the Dragonite thing never bugged me, if it was just an excuse to make Iris OP with no work or development, then maybe I would have been annoyed, but her being gifted a fully evolved Pokemon she didn't work for was THE ENTIRE POINT and it came back to haunt her. Characters' Pokemon are usually summed up by what they do with them than how they got them, eg. Ash caught Charjabug as a gift, but in terms of bonding and usage, it is clearly Sophocles' Pokemon. Same for Dedenne with Bonnie over Clemont.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  3. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    What are you talking- may was never a given a co star, she was first pokegirl to get serious goal and progressive chracter development since misty never did anything. Only character to get a co star status in this show other than ash is dawn and that's it. And second point you even don't know what poorly developed character is serena was by far the most developed character in XY series.Her only issue was her perfomance arc was handled quickly. The poorly developed characters are misty, mallow and lana all 3 who writers have no idea what to do with and are just waiting to be axed. So half of your post is BS.
    As for Iris was just unlucky to be in wrong generation where ash was regressed badly. Not to mention that infamous quote "you are such a little kid" made her even more hated. Otherwise for a girl who didn't have an active goal i would say she was handled very properly and due to BW fast pacing and multiple battle tournaments iris unlike misty never really looked irrelevant. Not to mention she had her own rival which made her growth more realistic. Iris character growth showed that the writers had the idea of how to develop a non active girl unlike the case with misty, mallow and lana.
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  4. Hanto

    Hanto Water Addiction

    I dont think that being writers favourite princess could be called a development. She never lose battle or performance because of her fails, she literally lose only due to her Fennekin and Eevee be inexperienced. Whats the point of rivals such Miette, Nene and Shauna if they did not drive her development?
    She never wins or loses a serious pokemon battle on her own, they were interrupted. She is just a typical cute girly girl without major flaws for me, that is even worse than being shafted like Lana or Mallow. She never truly overcomes herself, never has tough times with her pokemon being depressed or disobidient, her performances all were pretty similar and lackluster, just fiery dances with Stone Edge (and girl with shiny dragonair was a lot better). Dawn and May were a way more creative. Sometimes Serena wins just with the help of pure luck... Why all the rhyhorns suddenly start liking her?
  5. Ignition

    Ignition Well-Known Member

    Her constant "You're such a kid" remark is the main reason
    Platina2000 and LilligantLewis like this.
  6. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    Rivals of XY as a whole were poorly developed, even ash's rivals were poorly developed tierna, sawyer and even alain weren't really developed so it is not truly her fault. As for character development she had her own arc in summer camp, had to overcome her mother, had to cut her hair to toughen her resolve, if that's not character development then you dont know what character development is. Besides why only mention lana and mallow, misty was shafted as well throughout johto. As for struggles i dont see may ever struggling, she won pretty much most of her contests using PIS, DEM and some luck where her pokemon learning some new move midway. May was hardly creative at all unlike dawn who trained for perfecting each new move and style. As for rhyhorn she didn't win because rhyhorns were attracted to her she won because she was able to ride only rhyhorn which wasn't attracted and was at the corner, go and watch the episode again.
  7. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I think Serena was a character that had okay development but poor agency, in that she got okay internal development when the time was right but in terms of making plots flow based on her own characterisation she was rather incapable. She didn't have a lot of developed niches and they didn't really like focusing on her shortcomings much aside from underconfidence, nor did she have many distinct chemistries with the other cast members, so neither enough positives or negatives to drive a plot all the way along. A lot of her more promising non-showcase plots like the crossdressing one ended up cut off generically by something predictable like Team Rocket (likely why Serena barely got any limelight episodes until they introduced the showcases and Team-Plot Device had lost all their BW competence). Basically Serena had lots of good SCENES but barely any good full and finished episodes.

    She is better than Lana and Mallow who don't really get much development OR agency however. Lillie and Iris are sort of the medium, they could have better either, but there's enough substance to both. I'm not sure how to vote the previous girls since they were during the era the 'classic formula' was still mandated for nearly every episode, so it's less their fault it automated their role, though I remember Misty and Dawn occasionally loopholing around it to have some good episodes regardless and Dawn had one of the best handled competition arcs out of any of the girls.

    BW at least was the starting point of trying 'twerp only' episodes and making the show a bit more character driven (something XY dumbed back down while SM plays more extensively but only for certain characters), so they played more with Iris in terms of interactions and her capabilities and her strengths and weaknesses. Even in some of the more formulaic episodes like the COTD or DA Team Rocket ones, she could have more entertaining roles and chemistry and wasn't useless or in the background when things stopped being something utterly bland and simple like 'beat up this jobber and spout a couple stock hero phrases', ie. stuff any blank slate character can do. She also joined in on a few more things Ash did like the tournaments.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  8. shoz999

    shoz999 Accumula Town

    That's a character I've always wanted to talk about. I haven't reached the BW anime series yet, I've heard mixed things about her but the Iris from Pokemon Adventures is such a badass! In the manga, she is actually one of the main protagonist's rival, which personally I think makes a whole lot more sense than supporting character even though I've yet to see, who teases him from time to time aiming to become the strongest dragon master out there. How does she plan to do this, by winning the Pokemon League as the next Pokemon Champion with her badass Haxorus by her side. This actually makes a lot of sense as well considering her role in BW2 as the Pokemon Champion and she utilizes draconian-themed Pokemon from her Champion team such as Haxorus, Druddigon and Lapras.

    To this day, I'm still not sure why they didn't just give the Iris from the anime series a Lapras, regardless if she's afraid of ice-types or not. Feel like that's a missed opportunity considering Lapras is such a popular Pokemon and she has one as champion in the games. Actually I also think it makes a lot of sense in the anime for her to raise a Hydreigon in fact considering it's one of the hardest dragon-types, and since she wants to be a Dragon master, to raise from beginning to end. I never really understood what's with the Pokemon choices the anime crew thought was best for her considering half her team don't appear to be dragon Pokemon. Oh well, I suppose I have to watch the anime to find out.

  9. Apslup

    Apslup Triple Star Hunter

    I think Iris could've have been good if she got more time to shine, but she didn't and just became really annoying and unlikable (outside of the Dragonite stuff).

    I feel that if she was traveling by herself and not with Ash and Cilan, she would have become a much better trainer since she doesn't have Ash to hold her back from doing her own thing all the time because Ash was the only main character of BW, while Iris was just a supporting character (unlike other girls like Serena, Dawn and May who were also seemed like main characters).
  10. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    And you're seriously saying there weren't tons of episodes those girls weren't just 'along for the ride' or in the background watching whatever Ash was doing?

    Having some headline competition arc isn't key to making a character a main protagonist.
  11. Jangobadass

    Jangobadass Bow before a superior pimp!

    It's not her I hate.
    It's how her storyline was handled.
    And to be fair, EVERYONE'S story was poorly handled in BW (and every saga since :( )
    HoundoomFan and AznKei like this.
  12. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure if to rate a character just on signature arc alone, since a large amount of the show consists of filler and formula/games tie ins. A good character can immerse themselves into any plot and still make themselves fun in some way. I think this was why many liked Cilan in BW or Kiawe in SM, because while their development is very subtle and they don't get a lot of arcs and competitions, they still felt like an ever present part of the show and can contribute in very distinct and entertaining ways. The writers don't give up on them just because they're not the centre piece. Hell, Ash himself is often appreciated more for his supporting roles and interactions with the new cast than his main arc these days.
  13. AznKei

    AznKei Rabi-Ribi's Cocoa is cute! ^_^

    Screw Ash! Give me any companions/classmates spotlights over him anyday. They deserve more.
    Jangobadass likes this.
  14. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    Why would they he is the cash cow for the franchise when the other characters reach his stardon then they can talk, you cannot screw with his character anyday otherwise the result would be a series just like BW.
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  15. AznKei

    AznKei Rabi-Ribi's Cocoa is cute! ^_^

    You can like him whatever you want but I don't care about him nor you're going to force me to like him.

    I watched the show casually, so if the show ended up flopping it's not my problem. I had my fan project and I'm happy & proud that I don't ask anything else.
  16. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    I am not forcing anyone to like anybody, its each individuals own personal choice and i frankly couldn't care less about it. Just answering to your post of giving companions more spotlight over him. I agree with dawn type treatment though especially to main pokegirl.
  17. AznKei

    AznKei Rabi-Ribi's Cocoa is cute! ^_^

    Yeah I know. I just wanted to write that I was annoyed on how the producers/writers handled Serena back in XY, and didn't want to give them another chance, which is why my fan project existed. So to me, I wasn't ashamed to bash the status quo as the main reason, in which unfortunately Ash is part of it, but I don't do this often & nor forcing anyone to have my way. As for the other Pokegirls pre-XY, didn't watch much of their series so I can't really comment.
  18. Leonhart

    Leonhart Disney fanatic

    I've seen the "poorly handled" excuse used often when people criticize Iris, yet Dent was arguably worse than Iris since his development was almost non-existent.
  19. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ The Mischievous One

    I like Iris and I don't think she's as bad as some make her out to be. I do prefer some of the other female leads over her though like Lillie and Dawn :p
    Satoshi & Touko likes this.
  20. TheWanderingMist

    TheWanderingMist Why did I subject myself to this a 2nd time?

    I like Iris. Just because she's my least favorite as a Pokegirl doesn't mean I don't like her. I'm more frustrated with the writers for refusing to let her Axew evolve (yeah, yeah, I know all about how difficult Fraxure would have been to animate) and not giving her a Deino (or even a Druddigon) and instead just going with Kanto pandering.

    EDIT: Also, I guarantee this thread will be locked at some point.
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