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Why almost everybody here hates Iris?

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Moonlight Starlight

Well-Known Member
I like Iris and I don't think she's as bad as some make her out to be. I do prefer some of the other female leads over her though like Lillie and Dawn :p
Dawn and Iris are mostly the top two girls I would count that were handle most being written will developed.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Well to answer the question of this thread it’s primarily a consequence of rejecting Ash’s portrayal in BW.

I think Iris is overall the worst written female lead in the show (and I’ve already given several rants on the horrendous writing surrounding her) though the reason why she has garnered such widespread collective disdain (and yes even in Japan) is that she had the unfortunate role of reminding everybody watching the show about just how much Ash has regressed this saga.

Well you might say “but Ash really had regressed in BW” and that’s precisely the core problem in the first place! Ash from OS to DP was a guy gradually getting better as both a trainer and a person, but BW decided to spit in the face of everyone who was invested in that progression. Iris repetitively bringing attention to Ash’s idiocy makes it nigh impossible for most viewers to use “ultra suspension of disbelief” (USD) and pretend like the Ash in front of them is still the same guy whom they’ve followed for 4 sagas. Once this USD can no longer be upheld, the negative feelings associated with Ash’s inexcusable mistreatment can no longer be contained and must therefore be directed towards someone and it won’t be Ash himself since eventhough BW Ash is considered a laughingstock by many, he’s also considered the “victim” in this scenario meaning that someone else needs to take the brunt of these directed negative feelings and due to the role Iris was given with regards to constantly berating Ash for his shortcomings, she was the perfect candidate to direct all of that negative emotion towards.

You could say that it’s “the writers’” or “the executives’” fault and hence no character should be blamed but that’s a non-argument since every bad decision is the fault of “the powers that be” (not to mention they’re also responsible for every good decision as well, so should we just not feel anything towards the actual characters?). Also (and this should be obvious) it’s far easier to direct negative feelings towards someone whom you can actually see and have a clear image of (even if they happen to be fictional) rather than some abstract concept like “writing quality” or even the ‘faceless’ “powers that be” who produce the show. Even if you’re familiar with the people who work on and/or control the show (most people don’t), it’d still be very difficult to figure out who precisely had the brilliant idea to reset Ash and who had the fantastic notion to have Iris chew him out on his faults as a result of said reset.

And so the sword of damocles imbued with the negative emotions of the collective fandom swung down on Iris scarring her for eternity as an extremely unpopular character.
 
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HoundoomFan

shy shipper
The main reason people seem to hate Iris for is the, “your such a kid!” line. Which is stupid, because she’s not even being mean to him & im sure anyone who was in Iris position & someone(even if they where best buds) was acting like BW ash did when she used that phrase, they’d probably call them a fricken idoit. Yes ash is an experienced trainer, but doing stupid stuff like chucking a poke ball a person & bringing only 1 Pokemon to a gym fight is so dumb. And her calling him a ‘little kid’ isn’t insulting at all BECAUSE HE IS A KID. And the dragonite thing is a dumb reason to hate her too, because like you said the togikiss thing for dawn was handled a lot worse. The only things I really don’t like about Iris is her ice-type fear is poorly thought out & she never evolved axew once (which it wanted to do) & got powerful moves on axew when she barley used him.

In the end, I do like Iris, but she isn’t my favorite character or pokegirl. Though the hate on her is pretty ridiculous.
 
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@Dephender please keep a close eye on this thread -_-

Iris was the second worst Pokegirl for me. I'm going to echo @Genaller here and say its really a BW problem. I simply didn't like her personality and how she treated Ash.

And of course, people have to bring up Serena. Can we not talk about characters without bashing others to make them look better?

This thread has been overdone so many times. Guess what, Iris isn't liked. Reasons have been made evident, what do you want us to do?
 

keepitsimple

site of lies
Yes, the writers brought her a Dragonite, but story-wise it was a lot better than Togekiss on the silver plate back to the DP era. At least the mean and edgy dragon was disobidient and has to work on friendship with its trainer, not Togekiss that magically accepted Dawn.
I've seen the "poorly handled" excuse used often when people criticize Iris, yet Dent was arguably worse than Iris since his development was almost non-existent.
yeah attempting to dismiss criticism of one character by pointing at another and saying "well she was better than them" doesn't work. bringing up togekiss and cilan doesn't say anything whatsoever about Iris.

also togekiss is a bad comparison because you aren't looking at when each of these pokemon were received. DP was almost over and Dawn had already gone through most of her character development when she received Togekiss, so there would be no reason for Togekiss not to accept Dawn as its coordinator. When Iris caught Dragonite, by that time she still had hardly made any progress towards her goal of making Axew a competent battler (his best performances were when he pulled an undeserved overpowered new move out of his rear end, and even then those were the only reasons why he was able to win). This is why people consider Dragonite undeserved and not Togekiss, and why Dragonite was disobedient and not Togekiss

as for Cilan, he was there for comedic relief, fanservice and cooking. that's it. You had no reason to expect character development from him, because that wasn't the point of his character to begin with so no you can't argue Cilan was worse lmao

Why poorly developed character without any progression like Mallow or Serena are fan favourite? Because every girl companion should be a damsel in distress or what?
Did you watch XY or SM? "Poorly developed without any progression" doesn't describe Serena and "damsel in distress" doesn't describe either of them. How is Mallow a damsel in distress lol?
 
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AznKei

Dawn & Chloe by ddangbi
I'm convinced you didn't watch XY or SM because "poorly developed without any progression" doesn't describe Serena and "damsel in distress" doesn't describe either of them. How is Mallow a damsel in distress lol?

I think he got mixed with "Damsel in distress" to "doing girly & non-battling" things such as the Showcases & working at the restaurant.

And I thought Pikachu was more the "Damsel in Distress", seeing Ash diving to save his buddy, despite being male & can kick ass, during the whole show.
 

Dragalge

"Orange" Magical Girl
In regards to the catchphrase, imo it was probably how it was perceived by those that didn't like it as well. It may not have been actual bullying as some may say but how it came off felt like that way too which isn't a good thing lol. I don't think saying one is a little kid a thousand times that is supposed to be just harmless teasing is realistic, haha. First impressions count as well as Iris wasn't exactly the most well-liked character in the beginning of her own series compared to most of the others characters in the show. Those reasons being the catchphrase already being tiring and unfunny alongside other things like her catching non-Dragon Pokemon before Dragonite despite wanting to be a Dragon Master (I do like Excadrill though). There's a reason why so many people wanted Iris to catch that Deino in that episode.

And as Power Up mentioned, Iris is never going to be on the level of popularity like Dawn and Serena. It would be nice in an ideal world where every character is amazing to all but the more one accepts this reality, the better you can smile and look upon in the future without worries! Finally, as keepitsimple mentioned, Mallow being a damsel in distress is just flat out wrong as is Serena.
 
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DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I'm convinced you didn't watch XY or SM because "poorly developed without any progression" doesn't describe Serena and "damsel in distress" doesn't describe either of them. How is Mallow a damsel in distress lol?

Mallow and Serena are seldom ever damsels in distress. In fact they were very oddly handled in terms of being non action characters. Compared to say Sophocles and Lillie, who are directly shown not to have battling or physical power as their main strength and focus on something else they CAN do most of the time, Serena and Mallow kept getting forced into battles or other action moments anyway so they could look superficially badass, even if this made for very dumbed down 'challenges' like Team Rocket at their worst or dilemmas that were visibly plot armoured so they'd look relatively invincible, sometimes even while the more physically competent characters would take a worfing or be kidnapped humiliatingly every once in a while.

Hell I could argue Iris was more likely to be the target of peril or humiliating moments of helplessness (eg. getting mummified in the Cofagrigus episode).
 
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Genaller

Silver Soul
Honestly all the more recent pokegirls have various writing problems, but it's moreso due to the series they're in than the characters themselves. Other reasons for lack of popularity, is simply due to far less people watching pokemon now than 10-15 years ago.
Serena is actually one of the most popular companions ever (even in Japan). Whether you think she deserves to be so popular is your own business though the fact of the matter is that she is very popular in the Pokémon anime fandom.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
-She's a hypocrite

-Very rarely trains her pokemon,especially her Axew

-She didn't go out of her way to constantly find and train Dragon type pokemon considering she wants to be a "DRAGON MASTER".

-Ash was the best trainer in the entire Club Battle Tournament yet lost in the finals to Iris,the same Iris that couldn't do anything against Luke's Golett,she only won against Luke because her Axew randomly learned outrage and won it for her.

-She obtained a powerful Dragonite without having to battle and capture it.

-She really thought she knew more than Ash regardless if he was nerfed or not.

-Many people saw her in a similar light to Misty in terms of her teasing Ash all the time and that rubbed them the wrong way.
 
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Kuzehiko

That moment I found a lifetime treasure
Due to some of her catchphrases which she calls Ash a kid.
Even to date I still can't believe people has hate boners for her just because of that lol. Iris's alright, the fandom gotta learn to see beyond a few catphrases.
 

Hanto

Water Addiction
-She's a hypocrite

-Very rarely trains her pokemon,especially her Axew

-She didn't go out of her way to constantly find and train Dragon type pokemon considering she wants to be a "DRAGON MASTER".

-Ash was the best trainer in the entire Club Battle Tournament yet lost in the finals to Iris,the same Iris that couldn't do anything against Luke's Golett,she only won against Luke because her Axew randomly learned outrage and won it for her.

-She obtained a powerful Dragonite without having to battle and capture it.

-She really thought she knew more than Ash regardless if he was nerfed or not.

-Many people saw her in a similar light to Misty in terms of her teasing Ash all the time and that rubbed them the wrong way.

1. What is the point of her being hypocrite? Calling Ash a little kid is not a hypocrisy, cause he is a little kid. And Iris is a little kid too, Georgia mentioned that a couple times.
2. She train her Excadrill to learn Focus Blast, her Axew constantly has training sparrings with Scraggy. She used Emolga in first battle with Ash and Bianca to know about her battling style, had some cool battles. She does battle and train a lot for a side character, while almost all of her pokemon were already strong, but disobidient. You can not acquire the trust via training. On the another side, Cilan almost never trained and battled a way less, but he is the fan favourite flawless flamboyant meh.
Yeah, Axew learns new powerful moves all of sudden, but all the pokemon from main cast have that issue. Half of Ash Unova team evolved during gym battles. Battle with Luke was very odd, but Scraggy`s wins against Simipour and Simisage are on the same scale.
3. Being a dragon master is to hear hearts of dragons and learn about them, not to train in major. She already can sense her Axew, was the only one to understand Dragonite, calmed down raging Hydreigon like a pro and saves a lonely Deino from depression. Is this bad? Being a dragon master is not to be a dragon type specialist, it is kinda similar in some ways, but not the same.
4. It is normal for Pikachu to lose to a powerful ground/steel type with a 100 winning streak. Especially when you start battle with Thundebolt and have no effective attacks. Or another onyx/rhydon situation would be better?
5. Kinda obvious for main characters to obtain pokemon without battles, just with the help of befriending. Ash got Heracross and Snorlax this way, Dawn got her Togekiss etc.
6. She knows a way more than Ash about Unova region (situation with patrat) and basics of being a trainer (to throw a Pokeball to a human is not cool). And dont forget that she is kinda cocky and arrogant like Ash in OS, got hubris from being a best trainer in the Dragon village etc.
7. That is a fault of writing crew, not her.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
I liked her personality, disliked her gag and enjoyed certain parts of her storyline, especially her backstory.

But overall i think her development was strangely spaced out, her personal growth was considerably smaller than her growth as a trainer (which wasn't that big to begin with) and her character didn't get much of a conclusion.
And by that i don't mean that i wanted her to become a dragon master by the end of the series because i think things like that require a life time of effort, but i would've appreciated if she had some sort of flaw that was treated throughout the series and somehow overcomed in her final moments as a main character, making it seem like the entire series was leading up to that moment.
For example, Serena got her conclusion, because she got a better understandment of what her passion was. It wasn't just competing on Tripokalons, but rather making other people happy by making them entertained, especially when they were having hard times, like after the attack on Lumiose city. She also finally built up courage to be honest with her feelings about Ash. Even if she didn't win the Tripokalon, she still got something even more important out of her journey: self knowledge and the courage to be honest with your feelings. And all of these were things she lacked before starting her journey, as you can see she was unable to tell her mother how she really felt about Rhyhorn racing and she didn't know what she wanted to do with her life.

Meanwhile, they did try to give Iris a flaw to work on back in the Junior tournament arc regarding the way she treated Dragonite, but honestly i felt like that was introduced too late in the series, just like her strange dragon telepathy powers, which came out of nowhere and were only used a few times. I also think that whole thing about Dragonite's disobedience told me more about Dragonite's character than Iris', even though she did get a small amount of development when she learned how to deal with him better.

Besides, when the series was about to come into conclusion, there wasn't much else to talk about Dragonite and even still they chose to ignore the fact she had other pokemon (Emolga) with disobedience issues which never got proper development, so it felt like they give her certain pokemon for absolutely no reason.
 
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Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
I think Iris was a better character than people give credit for.

My favorite moment was the flashback on the episode she rebonds with Excadrill. Gotta respect someone who catches pokémon before the age 10 and all by herself (without helping of Pokémon).

Ash and others were gift starters. Iris fought for hers with her own bare hands.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
I think Iris was a better character than people give credit for.

My favorite moment was the flashback on the episode she rebonds with Excadrill. Gotta respect someone who catches pokémon before the age 10 and all by herself (without helping of Pokémon).

Ash and others were gift starters. Iris fought for hers with her own bare hands.
Yeah that was definetly a favorite BW moment of mine. It reminded me of when Jessie caught Seviper.

Wish we got more badass moments like that tho, where she would use just her bare strenght against pokemon.
 
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ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
For a girl who didn't have an active goal, i say iris was developed very well, her pokemon was all given personality and she had to work with an spoiled dragonite to tame it, not to mention the whole iris opelucid gym arc was also done well, she was set up as next gym leader which was executed better than both misty and brock who were just gifted there gyms. Not to mention she was the active battler of all the pokegirls, participating in the battle tournaments. Her biggest issue was that annoying catchphrase which was used too often and got old and she was the part of most unpopular pokemon series.
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
Series are often defined by the regional girl. Iris is the regional girl. BW was disliked. Therefore Iris is disliked because she was the regional girl of BW.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Obnoxious hubris driven characters are always divisive. OS Ash and Misty, nostalgia aside, are still pretty divisive with fans, some thinking they were unlikeable self absorbed jerks, but others complaining taking that element out of their personalities made them less fun.

It's worse when such a character is a secondary cast member, so doesn't have such abrasive flaws the subject of the story and get taken down a notch and humanised as often as the protagonist.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
Calling Ash a little kid is not a hypocrisy, cause he is a little kid.

I don't think you know what hypocrisy means.

Half of Ash Unova team evolved during gym battles.

Only 3 out of 10 did.

for absolutely no reason.

It's because starting in Generation IV, one of Ash's companions will always have the Pika-clone.

misty and brock who were just gifted there gyms.

They were already gym leaders before Ash met them.
 
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