Why are battles in Journeys so freaking underwhelming?

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

A bit of a rant on this one. Been rewatching some of the earlier anime episodes recently, specifically XY battle episodes since XY is my fav when it comes to overall battles and Im just irritated when I see what Journeys is doing. How is it that we are 70 freaking episodes in and ep 18 still has the best battle in the series. Ash vs Visquez is still the best battle in this series, no cap. Like the battle choreography is so bad. Its not even an animation problem mostly, the animation has been iffy here and there and is NOT upto the standards of XY, SM or even BW id say, but it isnt even the main problem. The Gary episode for example had such beautiful aesthetic, artstyle and animation but the battle still wasnt that enjoyable despite Gary being a badass because the battle choreography was so damn lame. Whats happened to the scripting of these battles? Whats happened to the fast pace of these battles? SM had fast paced battles as well, even without XY's 3D camera it had stellar battles and even the badly written battles like Hapu were more fun to watch then this.
Ash Vs Iris as much as I love that ep had a shitty battle (and thats not talking about the powerscaling stuff). It and most JN battles rely too much on One hit KOs. The dragonite v Dragonite fight was ass, dracovish vs dragonite and haxorus went by in a flash and while Dragonite vs Haxorus was cool it was another 2 hit battle.
Ash vs Korrina in JN was ass too. It had great moments here and there and nice animation but the ending of it was so rushed.
Ash vs Bea both battles I love the story and scripting but the animation made it so boring to watch a second time around
Ash vs Rinto was good story wise, I like farfetchd leek breaking, justified, how Rinto edged him on and all but damn was the battle painful to watch
Ash Vs Leon round 1 sufficed and was well enough. Leon Vs Raihan though was an absolute joke of a Masters 8 battle
Wikstrom vs Farfetchd was underwhelming too
Leon vs Lance, Ash vs Visquez, Farfetchd vs Gurdurr and Pikachu vs Meganium have been the only battles that were actually fun throughout to watch and were superbly done without bad animation or/and bad scripting, choreography and one hit KOs finishes.
Its even more infuriating because of the insane concept this Series possesses with PWC and how dream battles like Ash vs Flint, Cynthia of mine may happen and still be ass.
I know there is a pandemic and I can excuse the animation being iffy, but the writing for these battles have been so bland as well its annoying. Stop these slow paced standing around battles, have some actual action and fast paced battles. Or be like DP where the writing and strategies are so damn good you dont mind the slow pace or sub par animation.
At this rate, I only have hope with Ash vs Leon being good.

 

[KirliaToon50]

to put it in this perspective, I can agree with you that Pokemon needs more exciting battles Other than Ash vs. Everything else but a Ash Vs. Leon Battle would need to be more exciting and fun.

 

[Evstike]

Because all the good animators have disappeared.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Because they all the good animators have disappeared.

They disappeared for SM too and it had great battles still with good animation.

 

[Evstike]

They disappeared for SM too and it had great battles still with good animation.

But they were there for the first two grand trials and the league.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

But they were there for the first two grand trials and the league.

We still had Ash Vs Misty that happened after the two grand trials and good animation in other aspects apart from battles later on.
But I guess that might be a huge factor, I did hear they brought in a new animation team for journeys but idk how true it was. I just hope things pick up, atleast choreography wise

 

[Evstike]

We still had Ash Vs Misty that happened after the two grand trials and good animation in other aspects apart from battles later on.
But I guess that might be a huge factor, I did hear they brought in a new animation team for journeys but idk how true it was. I just hope things pick up, atleast choreography wise

I can't believe I forgot about one of the best animated episodes. The Journeys new animators thing is completely false. It's still the old animators who have been working on the show for years as well as some newer ones, but the good animators that came in during XY and SM are gone

 

[Ultra Beast Lover]

Yeah, while I admit that animation and battle choreography is hard, the battles in Journeys do feel pretty weak. Heck, Amphibia was able to do multiple fight scenes, one even being a bit anime-esque with a superform, in one episode and it still felt engaging, MLP had engaging battles and it's aimed at children. I don't expect an over the top battle with lasers and explosions every time but I definitely want more substance in these battles.

I think they need to hire new battle choreographers for starters.

 

[U.N. Owen]

Bad choreographers.

You have have all the pomp and circumstance you want, but if you can’t choreograph your battles, then the pomp and circumstance makes it worse.

case in point the Last Airbender film.

 

[Evstike]

Back during XYZ I think Nishiya (animated Charizard vs Greninja in the finals) was able to do his own storyboards. I don't know if other animators were allowed to do this, but having someone experienced with battles storyboard their own scenes helps a lot with choreography.

 

[mehmeh1]

Back during XYZ I think Nishiya (animated Charizard vs Greninja in the finals) was able to do his own storyboards. I don't know if other animators were allowed to do this, but having someone experienced with battles storyboard their own scenes helps a lot with choreography.

I think Iwane is allowed as well, at least from what I've heard

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

Simply put because they want to focus on other aspects of the show. It seems to be Tomiyasu's preference since that's been happening since SM.

The way I see, battles are nowadays more of a "obligation" than something they want to focus on.

 

[Dragonsoldier77]

They’re just trying to be more faithful to the game like they’ve been doing with other aspects.

So now is the time of only back and forth movement.

 

[Power Up]

Major production problems. Scheduling, one of, if not the most important when it comes to good animation, is likely wrecked.

Unfortunately, it probably isn't going to get any better. Also, the good animators didn't really disappear during Sun & Moon. They just didn't do a lot of the battle animation like they did in XY.

Now, the claim that the good animators disappeared this series is actually true. Nishiya hasn't animated a cut since like the first episode. Same deal with Ohashi. Nanba is nowhere to be found. Series is essentially reliant on Iwane and he isn't exactly putting out Ash vs Visquez level stuff on every episode he's assigned, even assuming he's actually animating a battle.

 

[mehmeh1]

Major production problems. Scheduling, one of, if not the most important when it comes to good animation, is likely wrecked.

Unfortunately, it probably isn't going to get any better. Also, the good animators didn't really disappear during Sun & Moon. They just didn't do a lot of the battle animation like they did in XY.

Now, the claim that the good animators disappeared this series is actually true. Nishiya hasn't animated a cut since like the first episode. Same deal with Ohashi. Nanba is nowhere to be found. Series is essentially reliant on Iwane and he isn't exactly putting out Ash vs Visquez level stuff on every episode he's assigned, even assuming he's actually animating a battle.

I'd like to say there's also Maenami.......but he has barely shown up, sadly

 

[Morax]

Can i expect Saber alter vs Berserker levels of animation and battle choreography from pokemon? :^

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

I can't believe I forgot about one of the best animated episodes. The Journeys new animators thing is completely false. It's still the old animators who have been working on the show for years as well as some newer ones, but the good animators that came in during XY and SM are gone

Ah I see, that makes sense. Quite unfortunate

Simply put because they want to focus on other aspects of the show. It seems to be Tomiyasu's preference since that's been happening since SM.

The way I see, battles are nowadays more of a "obligation" than something they want to focus on.

With SM it was understandable, it wasn't a battle focused series BUT when it did have battles they delivered on animation, even in the ones that had weak writing. All the grand trials, all the trials, all ash Vs Gladion matches, Alola league, esp Ash Vs Kukui, Ash Vs Misty Kiawe Vs Brock, heck even some TR battles were always animated well or in worst case scenario decently which atleast made them fun to watch even if the writing was horrendous like Ash Vs Hapu or Ash Vs Hau. The only battle I can remember that was horrendous to watch in animation aspect as well was Jessie Vs James in Alola league.
With Journeys, they have the ultimate Ash goal ever. THIS should be the most battle focus series, even more then XY the goal calls for it. It's just infuriating they don't. Even if it's less battles and not the main focus (which is still dumb) atleast do justice to the battles you do

They’re just trying to be more faithful to the game like they’ve been doing with other aspects.

So now is the time of only back and forth movement.

I don't think that's the reason for the slow paced battles. Every battle in Journeys doesn't feel like a departure from previous battles in the anime. I don't think it all is affected by them being faithful to the games.

Can i expect Saber alter vs Berserker levels of animation and battle choreography from pokemon? :^

I mean Im not even going as far as to compare it to other anime even. Just give some semblance of quality from the previous anipoke series.

Major production problems. Scheduling, one of, if not the most important when it comes to good animation, is likely wrecked.

Unfortunately, it probably isn't going to get any better. Also, the good animators didn't really disappear during Sun & Moon. They just didn't do a lot of the battle animation like they did in XY.

Now, the claim that the good animators disappeared this series is actually true. Nishiya hasn't animated a cut since like the first episode. Same deal with Ohashi. Nanba is nowhere to be found. Series is essentially reliant on Iwane and he isn't exactly putting out Ash vs Visquez level stuff on every episode he's assigned, even assuming he's actually animating a battle.

Yeah I think Scheduling is the worst offender. Like early in Journeys we even had Ash Vs Hodge along with Lance Vs Leon, Ash Vs Leon and Ash Vs Visquez that were animated pretty well. Heck even EP 20 was decent despite having more animation directors. I do think the pandemic has throwed them off badly when it comes to scheduling. Every battle since then has been significantly worse except the gurdurr battle. Even Korrina battle was fine animation wise, it was just the writing and rushed pace of it that was weak. I honestly wouldn't mind breaks in between with them cutting out fillers to focus more on improving the battles

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

There's also the fact that they tend to cram everything in the span of one episode every time. While in some cases this would work (Bea battles, Visquez), at other times, the extra content tends to overlap with the battle and make it less enjoyable. It's ironic, because SM literally had 2-parters for 2v2s in the Alola League. Even though it might seem excessive, it allowed both the battle as well as the characters involved to be fleshed out and connect with each other through the course of the match.

This all comes down to JN's episodic format being objectively trash. Even the smallest 'thread' that would ensure a flow in episode connectivity has been completely shitcanned. Ironically, it only makes things more confusing if you just jump from episode to episode (like @Mythical-Moonlight pointed out with Drizzile).

True! Such a glaring problem with Ash Vs Korrina and Iris. Also one of the reason why I love Alola league, it gave proper time to everything.
Heck, Ash Vs Korrina doesn't even need a 2 parter. Just manage the episode better. Cut down that Gurkinn Goh exposition time and Goh catching Kalos mons. Have the latter be an extremely quick montage while Gurkinn gives a short explanation about Mega evolution like Kiawe did about Z moves.
Ash Vs Iris can't have anything cut from it coz the interactions there are necessary so if it was one episode they handled it in the best way possible. Just wish they stretched it to two

 

[Zoruagible]

Everything's constantly limited to 2v2, 1/4 of the episode is set up and then Goh takes up another 1/4 despite them seemingly having absolutely no problems having him catch nothing for episodes on end when it is not Ash's turn for focus(Like now for instance, look at how many episodes they've gone without a capture. They always do this and once we get a PWC episode, BAM capture time! Take away FILLER time NOT battle time!). No multi part battles, everything is crammed into one episode and they show them back in Vermilion at the end too taking up even more precious time rather than simply making them leave and cut off.

Absolute ZERO stakes, Ash lost? Just down his ranking but he'll get it back offscreen!

Oh yeah and Pikachu starred in most of them but at least they've seem to calmed down on that.

 

[Decidueye23]

I know right. For me the most disappointing one though is the Moltres one. Simoly because of the fact that infernape did not do anything. I feel like for some reason, they hype the episode around the battle so much, and the battle does not end up living upto it. TBH SM too didnt have great battles until the league and maybe vs Olivia, but that was udnerstandable given the nature of the region.

Simply put because they want to focus on other aspects of the show. It seems to be Tomiyasu's preference since that's been happening since SM.

The way I see, battles are nowadays more of a "obligation" than something they want to focus on.

The way i see it, having a Goal like PWC and making battles obligatory is such a contradiction. It makes no sense to treat it like that.


@SerGoldenhandtheJust NGL i was suprised that you created this thread since you are one of the more positive outlookers for Journeys in general. But i do agree with you. XY had 3v3s since Gym 3. Not even the qualifier for hyperclass has been a 3v3. Which is just sad. Hoping ultra class changes that. But then again they made Ash vs Hapu a 1v1 so who knows lmao