Why aren't there any more Pokemon tournaments before the Pokemon League

[p96822]

This has been a problem since XY. Why aren't there tournaments in the series anymore beside the Pokemon League. Something that I liked in Pokemon Black and White is that when we have a tournament arc that we learn what Pokemon the rivals had, giving the side character something to do, and giving ether new move or evolution for are main characters. If XY or Sun and Moon had these tournaments then we could have show how strong our main cast are. Like how strong is Clemont before he got Luxray, Giving Serena more Pokemon battle that could inspirit her on her Showcases, or any of the classmate showing how they can battle even though there not as strong as Ash and Kaiwe. We need more of these.

 

[U.N. Owen]

I personally blame cost of animation since battles take a lot of energy and resources to animate.

My distaste for XY says that the rival pool was either so boring, so much of a nonentity, downright pathetic, or a combination of said traits that a tournament would be a waste of money.

 

[shoz999]

Honestly that's a good question. Tournament Story Arcs are a fantastic and easy way to develop multiple characters in short time and to show off how much they've grown in strength and skill. For example. The Gym Leader Tournament storyline from Pokemon Adventures is often hailed by most readers as the best tournament storyline the Pokemon series has to offer, not only showing off a huge array of characters showing off their skills in short time but also giving good character development to both characters who already had enough character development or were lacking it. Honestly I could not think of a more perfect Tournament Storyline. I would love to see the anime do it's own Gym Leader Tournament arc, preferably the original Kanto Gym Leaders as Ash hasn't technically battled all of them.

 

[Zoruagible]

No idea but I sure hope they bring them back, even if it's just another Whirl Cup or Tag Team tournament. A one and done kind of tournament that lasts several episodes

I guess XY can be blamed cause well... one of the character's goal didn't fit around battling at all and she was quite inexperienced. And you also have one character who literally can't enter.
Not to mention how small the supporting cast was. In BW you had Stephan, Bianca, Trip, Burgundy, and Georgia. And characters like Luke. For XY it was barely anybody until they finally got around to introducing Tierno, Trevor, and Shauna. And it'd just seem out of place to throw Showcase contenders into a tournament, Cilan and Iris' goals along with their rivals actually utilized battles. Showcases don't. Yes, Sawyer exists but he didn't come in until the final quarter.

 

[shoz999]

Question? Why is this in the poll thread?

 

[Kintaro]

There should have been more tournaments in the OS so Misty and Brock could actually battle in the series rather than rarely ever battling. The Whirl Cup was a good idea but it was like 2 eps long...lol

 

[p96822]

Really I think a Pokemon XY have tournament would be fun. If I was a writer I would make Serena and Clemont enter because of there in insecurities of not being as strong as Ash. Maybe even add the moment of Serena feeling weak because of loses in the Summer Camp Arc. I could say that Ash could make it to the finals while Clemont I would say would make to the semi-finals and Serena in the quarter finals. You can even add Astrid as challenge for Ash because of mega evolution.

 

[Doppelgänger]

Best Wishes didn't have contests, which were like Gym Battles for Coordinators.
The mini tournaments filled the void to help pad the episode count.
Who knew people would prefer intense battles over dog shows/beauty pageants?

 

[AznKei]

Really I think a Pokemon XY have tournament would be fun. If I was a writer I would make Serena and Clemont enter because of there in insecurities of not being as strong as Ash. Maybe even add the moment of Serena feeling weak because of loses in the Summer Camp Arc. I could say that Ash could make it to the finals while Clemont I would say would make to the semi-finals and Serena in the quarter finals. You can even add Astrid as challenge for Ash because of mega evolution.

They added Astrid, but made her a joke when they showed that quick shot where Hawlucha defeated her Mega Absol, and gave the impression that the whole Kalos League was a boy's club. She deserved better.

 

[DatsRight]

They seem to really wanna skim down the girls' battling as much as possible nowadays, like they don't think all the feminine cutesy characters and Pokemon fit being in intense fight scenes anymore. They tend to only get the mandatory bad guy battles (which are mostly rigged so they win as fleetingly as possible) and even training spars are never really shown for them, only implied to happen offscreen. Sophocles hasn't really battled much either, but there have at least been more token occasions he's been allowed to try onscreen, such as the battle royal (which seemed odd given Lana and Lillie actually wanted to take part as well). It's almost looking like they're systematically avoiding showing their experience level.

Unless they're intentionally going for the premise that no one besides Ash and Kiawe has really bothered to gain much battle experience this series, it's gonna look kinda flimsy trying to make them look good in the league. I'd actually end up feeling really bad for those two if, after multiple epic fails in other exercises the other students have experience with, the one thing they actually worked and trained to get to a good level with everyone else is just equally or more competent at without any effort or trial and error whatsoever. Ash can painfully fail at cooking, academics, gymnastics, baseball, technology, jump rope, diving, and mechanics over and over, but heaven forbid the non-battlers lose a single battle on their first try.

And this sums up perfectly if any of the other four actually end up the 'dream smasher' in the league at this rate:
https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/1115674026628636673

 

[RedR]

prolly time constraints.

good thing all these eps are available on youtube tv and dvd so we can watch anytime we want!

 

[Leonhart]

I feel that after Best Wishes, the writers kind of grew tired of tournament since they're too predictable. Perhaps they didn't want to repeat themselves by giving us more tournaments that don't affect the plot.

 

[DatsRight]

I feel that after Best Wishes, the writers kind of grew tired of tournament since they're too predictable. Perhaps they didn't want to repeat themselves by giving us more tournaments that don't affect the plot.

It seems odd because those are the actual fights they can do anything with, no mandates or story segregation, just who pulls out the best stuff. Unlike the gym and bad guy fights, there's no character they have to ultimately have win each and every time, which would arguably give them a more spontaneous 'anything goes' approach. It almost feels like since BW they're slowly cutting the formalities with battles, like a lot of the old formula.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

This has been a problem since XY. Why aren't there tournaments in the series anymore beside the Pokemon League. Something that I liked in Pokemon Black and White is that when we have a tournament arc that we learn what Pokemon the rivals had, giving the side character something to do, and giving ether new move or evolution for are main characters. If XY or Sun and Moon had these tournaments then we could have show how strong our main cast are. Like how strong is Clemont before he got Luxray, Giving Serena more Pokemon battle that could inspirit her on her Showcases, or any of the classmate showing how they can battle even though there not as strong as Ash and Kaiwe. We need more of these.

The last time there were, the League itself felt inadequate in comparison. The writers only have so much creativity when it comes to battles.

 

[DatsRight]

The last time there were, the League itself felt inadequate in comparison. The writers only have so much creativity when it comes to battles.

Yeah, BW admittedly had tournaments and frequent competent TR fights which many considered the better highlights of the series. The rival, gym and league battles on the other hand were an infamous laughing stock in many areas. Usually it's the other way round.

I guess people are more judgemental of SM because there is a more minimal amount of ALL of these in top quality. No tournaments, TR and other villains are only superficially dangerous at best and rarely force good battles out of the heroes, the rivals are okay but predictably paced, the trials come in less amount and range from good to filler level and the league will supposedly be a less prestiged event with even the inexperienced characters taking part. It's not terribly handled, but there doesn't really feel like anything significant that should be distracting the writers and making it uneven in handling. Though as many mentioned, they're putting WAY more effort into storytelling and filler material this series, something that's rarely ever a key focus in previous series.

If anything the battles in SM feel like the most stiffly choreographed part of the series, like there is SOME character driven elements, but it's largely in the form of interruptions, like Rockruff/Lycanroc's rage moments or Ash dropping his Z crystal, otherwise they tend to be by-the-numbers, one of the things the cast have least control over changing in terms of agency. Kiawe's aren't too bad, but even then they tend to follow a formula.

 

[Kintaro]

I remember as a kid/teen being so bored with the fillers from Johto onward and remember wishing there were more tournament arcs or battles. I never understood why they made Misty/Brock give up on battling so early into the OS and barely battle outside a few episodes. The Contests felt like battle tournaments which is why they were well received, but since then it does feel like something has been missing.

 

[p96822]

I do think Pokemon tourments beside the league is important because it aloud the character to strut there stuff in battle. If we got that in Pokemon XY or Sun and Moon then we could have seen how strong not only our heroes, but their rivals as well. Think about it! What if Serena and Clemont did enter the tournament then their Pokemon learn a new move that could help them latter on or there Pokemon evolving into new forms or even completing a story line with those Pokemon. I think tournament should be a thing

 

[DatsRight]

I don't think it's absolutely necessary to have them battle but I do think the writers have to stop trying to have their cake and eat it too. If a character is supposed to not revolve around battling, they have to develop something else to be their focus and agency, they can't just keep being altered into a fluent badass at whim for cheap quota. The 'well they're not revolved around battling' excuse only goes so far, since it's still something that is regarded as a development pivot, something many characters have to work for and gain an agency with.

If the same reality accepts Ash can't be as good a cook as Mallow or academically smart as Lillie and Sophocles because he didn't work for that talent like they did, they can't suddenly be as good battlers as him without actually working and doing legit training and battling. They should have their fails and trial and errors like he does in their areas. Saying they learned all the ropes and became good strategists because they spam-beatdown a few jobber bad guys like they did with Serena at the end of XY is bullcrap, conveniently getting all the spoils with none of the hardship.

I do think Pokemon tourments beside the league is important because it aloud the character to strut there stuff in battle. If we got that in Pokemon XY or Sun and Moon then we could have seen how strong not only our heroes, but their rivals as well. Think about it! What if Serena and Clemont did enter the tournament then their Pokemon learn a new move that could help them latter on or there Pokemon evolving into new forms or even completing a story line with those Pokemon. I think tournament should be a thing

But isn't that kinda farcical as well? They win a tournament battle but only because piot armour was involved. The large point of contention is that the SM companions didn't do much to any battling or training to bulk up their Pokemon BEFORE the league battles occurred, I can only see that worsening if they kept getting new moves or evolutions each time they struggled in a battle to excuse them lucking out and getting up a position over more experienced opponents.

 

[p96822]

I don't think it's absolutely necessary to have them battle but I do think the writers have to stop trying to have their cake and eat it too. If a character is supposed to not revolve around battling, they have to develop something else to be their focus and agency, they can't just keep being altered into a fluent badass at whim for cheap quota. The 'well they're not revolved around battling' excuse only goes so far, since it's still something that is regarded as a development pivot, something many characters have to work for and gain an agency with.

If the same reality accepts Ash can't be as good a cook as Mallow or academically smart as Lillie and Sophocles because he didn't work for that talent like they did, they can't suddenly be as good battlers as him without actually working and doing legit training and battling. They should have their fails and trial and errors like he does in their areas. Saying they learned all the ropes and became good strategists because they spam-beatdown a few jobber bad guys like they did with Serena at the end of XY is bullcrap, conveniently getting all the spoils with none of the hardship.



But isn't that kinda farcical as well? They win a tournament battle but only because piot armour was involved. The large point of contention is that the SM companions didn't do much to any battling or training to bulk up their Pokemon BEFORE the league battles occurred, I can only see that worsening if they kept getting new moves or evolutions each time they struggled in a battle to excuse them lucking out and getting up a position over more experienced opponents.

How does that worsening if they get new moves or evolution. I mean the Pokemon evolving could lead more into future battle or new move they could use in battle in the future or any problem that happen in future episode

 

[DatsRight]

How does that worsening if they get new moves or evolution. I mean the Pokemon evolving could lead more into future battle or new move they could use in battle in the future or any problem that happen in future episode

But isn't the tournament supposed to be the highlight battle anyway outside generic action scenes like TR curbstomps? I'd rather they got plot armoured in the latter than the actual official battles where actual competence and strategy is actually supposed to be the key to progressing.

Or you know, they could just TRAIN for new moves and evolutions. EARN them rather than get gifted them at a convenient time so they skip all that hard work and agency.