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Why did Brock stay for Hoenn and Sinnoh?

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Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
So we all know that starting with Hoenn, the anime has a new female traveling companion for each new region. But they didn't start having new male ones until Unova.

Why do you guys think Brock got to stay for two more regions while Misty's character retired at the end of johto? They could of easily replaced him with someone else (whether it be a male playable character, a gym leader, or a original character), but for some reason, he wasn't retired at the end of johto.
 

chalkus

Well-Known Member
Because Brock is better than Misty.

Also, when Brock first left before the Orange Islands, fan backlash prompted his return. When Misty got the axe, hardly anyone except hardcore shippers and fangirls cared after the first couple months. Truly, Brock should still be there since none of his replacements have fared better than he did.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
I guess it could have been because of his popularity and the effect of the backlash from when they replaced him in the Orange Islands.
 
Brock didn't get much focus in Johto, AG and DP so there's no point in replacing him and bringing in a new character if they're not going to get any time for development. They already had May and Dawn to advertise the games.
 

Haunter ゴースト

Well-Known Member
Why did Misty leave after the OS? Why did Ash stay? Why did Iris and Cilan leave at the end of BW instead of individually like Brock and Misty?

The writers simply did what they wanted to do, there really isn't any deeper meaning behind it. The likeliest thing if anything is that the writers felt by keeping Brock it would lesten the blow when Misty left.
 

An00bis

Wicked Witch
Every Region is an experiment to see what works and what doesn't.

In my opinion Brock stayed on the show as long as he did because he is generally inoffensive. He served well as a supporting/utility character because his skill set was so broad. He could act as a vehicle for information to younger viewers. He could explain how children traveling in the woods filled with dangerous monsters could survive. He could, if needed, fade seamlessly into the background to allow another character time to shine. That kind of utility was needed during Hoenn and Sinnoh because we had two co-stars with tangible goals already competing for the viewers attention. Anyone else would feel like a Third Wheel.

Brock's role certain diminished as time went on. It seemed that the less the writers used Brock the more they realized that they didn't have to keep him around, and they could just shift his utility onto other characters.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Interesting question, but when we take a look at bigger picture it makes perfect sense why one of older traveling companions was allowed to accompany Ash in future sagas after Johto ended.

In many long running shows unlike its practice with pokemon , cast which started anime in first place sticks with viewers and storyline until very end. We can witness to that with One Piece, Naruto, Winx, Fairy Tail, Inuyasha etc, etc.

With purpose of delivering balance into timeline and anime following. Established main cast which creates brand about themselves and stands for animated series through which storyline, development and adventure is told. Forming emotional connection between viewers and main characters promting them to stay tuned into anime and have reason to continue following their journey.

Thus bringing identity to show that way.

Brock stay for Hoenn and Sinnoh was to provide stable additional character whose formed friendship with Ash, history, past experiences and influence left on Ash would transfer itself on next generation.

I don't know if others noticed, but when Brock was around there were no resets of Ash skills and character progression(unlike Unova did). Making it seem like pokemon show still have soloid story which builds on itself gradually.

Giving someone else beside Ash with who audience could associate pokemon series, keep continuity stronger due to strong bond, story and all kind of good or bad moments he went through with Ash.

Attesting to previous development and newly acquired skills Ash developed over time explaining to new companions and new viewers some things thery werent aware of which took place in previous seasons. As such serving as insurance that collected knowledge and development created before wont go down the drain.

Hence why in Hoenn and Sinnoh pokemon series had stronger continuity, connections to past with bridges not being burned and more coverage on previous important characters and journey.

Something which is hardly true for BW, but even XY as well as far as attention to history and past important events really go.

Not to mention longer stay allowed that Brock character flourish to more satisfying degree.

Learning new things about his past, family and relationship with parents or younger brother Forest. Found out how he got his first pokemon partner(Onix). Caught all kind of new, interesting pokemon, went through some endearing development. Gathering new info and experience in raising up pokemon putting to test his attainment as pokemon breeder. As baby pokemon like Bonsly, receiving his own egg(Happiny), taking care of injured pokemon like Sharpedo, Bagon, Nuzleaf, Dawn Pachirisu etc showed. Along with helping to calm down conflict and urgent situations regarding enraged pokemon with his wisdom, patience and adamant nature.

Sprinkled with lot of funny moments, comedy and embarassing situations Brock awkward behavior and moments of irrationality brought in group dynamic.

Brock stay also allowed to decrease impact Misty departure caused among viewers, making it easier for fans who kept watching show to get accustomed to cast replacing anime staff opted to go with for new generations.

With removal of one extremely popular character at that time berng already big enough shock, to risk it any further and remove another heavily appreciated traveling companion and cause further decrease in popularity than it already happened.


BUT even than, when Hoenn started i always felt pokemon anime would be much better and more rewarding for storyline if Misty was kept instead of Brock to strengthen continuoity and bring stability to main cast through her presence.

She is more likable as character having bigger depth to her emotions and personality imo, has funnier pokemon, more sad backstory(left by parents at very young age and neglected by her sisters and everyone else which left emotional scars on her wanting to get noticed and get love, support she never had in childhood). More interesting career centered around battling, catching new pokemon, training and entering tournaments to reach E4 potential and become water master.

Just Hoenn alone was full of opportunities and water themed plots.

Something which would imo bring more excitement and unpredictability to Hoenn and Sinnoh series than Brock really could due to limitations his plots, breeder goal etc had attributed to themselves and weaker predispositions through which he could grow to more meaningful way in personality and emotional sense.

Because Brock is better than Misty.

Also, when Brock first left before the Orange Islands, fan backlash prompted his return. When Misty got the axe, hardly anyone except hardcore shippers and fangirls cared after the first couple months. Truly, Brock should still be there since none of his replacements have fared better than he did.

In that case we would have to go with presumption how only pokeshippers and "fanboys" liked Misty character, which is laughable and not true at all.

Im not sure how you expect that i take this statement seriously? It was obvious how backlash and controversy Misty departure left on pokemon fandom was 10 times worse than Brock short hiatus for Orange islands achieved.

With number of fans who were disappointed, saddened and shocked that Misty was replaced vastly outnumbering those in former atempt pf replacing character case. Followed wit huge amount of complaints, petitions, campaigns and all kind of actions taken by literally thousands of fans in attempt tobring her back. They failed, but this revealed huge dedication and support Misty character enjoyed from fans.

Reason why Brock returned after Orange islands wasn't because fans wanted him back.
But because:
-writers realized how everyone were fine with Brock look with there not existing any racial issues they feared he might caused.
-Tracey wasn't liked enough to warrant his stay

That kind of utility was needed during Hoenn and Sinnoh because we had two co-stars with tangible goals already competing for the viewers attention. Anyone else would feel like a Third Wheel.

I believe that controversy surrounded around pokemon breeding and fact of Brock storyline not having much ties with training, battling or competing also played relevance in how much attention and exposition his character could had received.

Well it certainly played factor in whole thing.

Brock's role certain diminished as time went on. It seemed that the less the writers used Brock the more they realized that they didn't have to keep him around, and they could just shift his utility onto other characters.

I would agree, if it weren't for fact that Brock got more episodes dedicated to himself, more development about his breeding career through exchanging experience with other people of same profession and nurturing hurt pokemon, more battle screen time and focus through which you could feel his presence in Hoenn/Battle Frontier building on friendship with new companions(especially Max).

Than it was case with Johto.

Sinnoh is another story though.
 
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nickdt

Well-Known Member
Brock was there to fullfill a role of mentor. Rememeber that in the OI, when Brock was not around, Ash was determined to win to impress his friend. But without Brock, Ash would not have gotten past Nando in Sinnoh and i think we have missed some off-screen information in the BF. I think it was Brocks idea to bring back the gang of four, cause they would win the match for Ash. Brock knows there power and also knows that especially Bulbasaur would never let Ash down.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

*On Vacation. Go Away!*
Brock only stuck around because without him Ash and friends would have starved to death. It's true. Ash, Misty, Dawn, Tracey, May, and Clemont have never been seen or even mentioned preparing food, Bonnie and Max are too young to handle the responsibility, and Iris never showed an interest in cooking. And the only thing Dawn cooked regularly were Poffins but that's it. And the OI had Ash and his friends eating in Pokemon Centers and restaurants.
 

chalkus

Well-Known Member
In that case we would have to go with presumption how only pokeshippers and "fanboys" liked Misty character, which is laughable and not true at all.

Im not sure how you expect that i take this statement seriously? It was obvious how backlash and controversy Misty departure left on pokemon fandom was 10 times worse than Brock short hiatus for Orange islands achieved.

With number of fans who were disappointed, saddened and shocked that Misty was replaced vastly outnumbering those in former atempt pf replacing character case. Followed wit huge amount of complaints, petitions, campaigns and all kind of actions taken by literally thousands of fans in attempt tobring her back. They failed, but this revealed huge dedication and support Misty character enjoyed from fans.

Reason why Brock returned after Orange islands wasn't because fans wanted him back.
But because:
-writers realized how everyone were fine with Brock look with there not existing any racial issues they feared he might caused.
-Tracey wasn't liked enough to warrant his stay

Misty's departure caused a huge stir at first. A lot of people were annoyed at the change, and did what you listed. However, that lasted for less than half AG's runtime. In fact, by the time AG ended, most Misty fans and pokeshippers were May fans and advance shippers. That did not happen with Brock. Brock fans did not become Tracey fans en masse, plus the reasons you stated. Misty wasn't even doing all that much by the time she left. Perhaps if she was being utilized more, was pushing the plot forward like Dawn, or was winning major tournaments like Iris it would have turned out differently. Oh, well...
 

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
hardly anyone except hardcore shippers and fangirls cared after the first couple months.

So basically the same reaction as when Iris left, only people got over that within hours instead of months.

As for why Brock stayed so long; I assume it was because kids liked his funny gags? I'm not sure how popular he was in general though.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Misty's departure caused a huge stir at first. A lot of people were annoyed at the change, and did what you listed. However, that lasted for less than half AG's runtime. In fact, by the time AG ended, most Misty fans and pokeshippers were May fans and advance shippers. That did not happen with Brock. Brock fans did not become Tracey fans en masse, plus the reasons you stated. Misty wasn't even doing all that much by the time she left. Perhaps if she was being utilized more, was pushing the plot forward like Dawn, or was winning major tournaments like Iris it would have turned out differently. Oh, well...

Some people found May character to be more relatable for them, enjoyable or of bigger value for plot. Others remained Misty fans with May failing to live up to their standards finding Misty personality, goals, pokemon, chemistry brought in anime as more captivating, satisfying to follow.

Just like some remained Dawn fans, while some began liking Iris, Serena or May/Misty character more(applies to new generation of kids which got into pokenon later).And vice versa. Just because some started to like new characters more, doesnt mean majority of former companion fans necessarily followed same suit.

Especially when pretty much during whole course of DP /Sinnoh series from 2006 to 2010/2011, demand for Misty return was still massive, With there existing numerous threads and complaints on this and other similar sites over Misty leaving being mistake. Wioth MIsty at that time still being most broight up candidate of those who should return, most supported and talked about on various places i visited on internet.

It wasnt until BW and afterwards that interest and support for Misty character began to notably drop. Due to many of her fans leaving forums and similar places either to other sites like tumblr or just getting out of fandom. Along with remaining ones becoming les vocal or active due to lack of any new info for decade making them lose any hope or enthusiasm once present.

Likewise its strange that you say how Misty wasnt doing much by time she left. Because it was in last season when she was still main character that Misty battled, get more development, arcs dedicated to herself and focus than in any other season.

To add on;you cannot base other people opinions on how you felt about Misty finding Dawn and Iris as "superior". Becaue many think exact opposite having reversed order of who was of bigger value for pokemon show :
With Misty appeal for many coming from delivering identity and stable flux of emotions through her varied, strongwilled characterization. Being moral compass in pokemon anime and reflect of human passion and dedication in accomplishing your aims never backing down to challebnge.
They like her unique distinct from each other pokemon, interesting dreams striving to reach E4 heights and master water pokemon featuring ancient lores about legendary water pokemon and mystical powers as Whirl Cup introduced, sad backstory of being traumatized by lack of parental care or sister support having to learn how to take care of herself early.

Or often taking charge in preventing crisis from either enraged pokemon, thiefs, helping other people who had issiues(like Timmy, Sakura, Egan etc)while having several achievements during her travels.
From entering all kind of competitions, performances(such as playing role of mermaid) or match maker, coming up with plans how to escape from danger thanks to her intelligence(like sunk ships or haunted houses) and helped move plot forward through her sense for justice and perspicacity.

More successfuly than her successors did as far as concept of journey, exploration of new regions and emotional aspect goes.

Not needing to repeadetly enter big tournaments to feel her presence in show often steaing spotlight and excelling in what she knows best. Which was taking initiative in solving mysteries, prepsring plans for emergency situations and having big compettive fire entering all kind of activities. Not letting others to lose faith in themselves and fight for their beliefs.

In regards to Brock im probably in minority but i felt Brock became only better as character with time until Sinnoh anyway(although i dont think he was "ruined" there as many like to say having quite a few notworthy moiments and some pretty sweet development, just being neglected). Gaining more characteristics to his behavior and personbality profile. Becoming more compassionate and understanding for Ash and other friends. Being nice, endearing change from rather distanced, cold attitude Brock used to have in earlier seasons.

I believe his concern and support provided to Ash or Misty feeling like he has someone to who he could talk abour problems or ask for advice being romantic or coming from gym leader families, departure of original cast with Brock barely suppressing visible sadness.

Interest in accompanying May on her shopping trips, being like mentor to Max in helping him to realize how everything isn't in books causing later to see in Brock protective, older figure,. Being like role model thanks to endless amount of information and wisdom.

Warning Ash about his inconsiderate and reckless plans delivering common sense, often helping him in training during sparring battles(like when he used Lombre vs Torkoal, Mudkip, or his Sudowoodo helping to train Infernape). Getting in dangerous situations just to find right berries to prepare potions for Ash injured pokemon like Pikachu or Monferno revealed how loyal, caring and protective he became as person.

With one of Brock best qualities coming from unobtrusive nature being like wheel of wisdom and rationality for other characters. In teaching them what is right and wrong supervising Ash and often girl companions. Being intermediartor in balancing out strife, disagreemebnts and anger within main cast.

Delivering logistic support, supplies, mentorship and medical help. Being caretaker, navigator and older parental figure to others bringing sense of security and stability in main cast.

While coming of as outstanding source of comedy and awkward moments showing how regardless of how mature he may be, he has flaws, weakness and personal problems as character.

Brock needed more focus, expansion on his dreams and development. But at same time i can understand limitations present behind breeding career and appreciate everything positive added to pokemon series through his existenced and involvement in other main character stories.
 
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PanpourHoopa

Well-Known Member
You guys are over thinking this.

its because misty wanted to be a gym leader and Brock wanted to continue practicing being a pokemon breeder, which he had to go to different places to learn more about it.

Alsobrockismoreawesomethanmisty

But I do prefer misty over iris. I hate her.
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
You guys are over thinking this.

its because misty wanted to be a gym leader and Brock wanted to continue practicing being a pokemon breeder, which he had to go to different places to learn more about it.

Alsobrockismoreawesomethanmisty

But I do prefer misty over iris. I hate her.
Was that last line even necessary at all? Iris has literally nothing to do with this thread.
 

Vernikova

Champion
Bad character decisions is nothing new for the people in charge. Let's just be happy that they finally got rid of him for new gimmicky characters.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
You guys are over thinking this.

its because misty wanted to be a gym leader and Brock wanted to continue practicing being a pokemon breeder, which he had to go to different places to learn more about it.

Alsobrockismoreawesomethanmisty

But I do prefer misty over iris. I hate her.

Just to clear somethiung up. Misty didn't wanted to be gym leader. She wanted to continue traveling with Ash, but had to return to Cerulean to prevent gym from ending shut down after sisters went on world cruise. Afterwards staying because of sisters running out of obligations being irrresponsible with Misty in chronicles showing disappointment wishing she could rely on them. Implying desire to leave having bigger dreams she wants to achieve with things being uncleared.

Her goal was to become water pokemon mastere which involves traveling, entering tournaments, catching new opokemon sand learning from other experts how to use particular specie to full potential.

Bad character decisions is nothing new for the people in charge. Let's just be happy that they finally got rid of him for new gimmicky characters.

Personally i wasn't happy when Brock got replaced, and i definitely didn't thought he was bad character for all intents and purposes. Appreciating his character and contribution left on series.
 
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BJack

Zura
Misty's departure caused a huge stir at first. A lot of people were annoyed at the change, and did what you listed. However, that lasted for less than half AG's runtime. In fact, by the time AG ended, most Misty fans and pokeshippers were May fans and advance shippers. That did not happen with Brock. Brock fans did not become Tracey fans en masse, plus the reasons you stated. Misty wasn't even doing all that much by the time she left. Perhaps if she was being utilized more, was pushing the plot forward like Dawn, or was winning major tournaments like Iris it would have turned out differently. Oh, well...

That was because Tracey was kinda bland. Nobody minds Brock now because Cilan and Clemont are good replacement

Just to clear somethiung up. Misty didn't wanted to be gym leader actually. She wanted to continue traveling with Ash, but had to return to Cerulean to prevent gym from ending shut down after sisters went on world cruise. Afterwards staying because of sisters running out of obligations being irrresponsible with Misty in chronicles showing disappointment wishing she could rely on them. Implying desire to leave having bigger dreams she wants to achieve.

Her goal was to become water pokemon mastere which involves traveling, entering tournaments, catching new opokemon sand learning from other experts how to use particular specie to full potential.

Misty said she was fine with being a gym leader in Chronicles.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Misty said she was fine with being a gym leader in Chronicles.

Misty came to accept current situation knowing how family needs her not having much choice but to stay there viewing it as her responsibility.

But main and primary reason why she astayed was because of lazy sisters. In chronicle episodes like "A Date with Delcatty!" she said how she is staying at gym because of sisters incompertence not having someone to rely on(her exact lines in Japanese version were "my sisters are of no use so i have to stay here for now doing my best").

Followed with disappointment and frustration in "Real Cleffa Hanger!" when talking with Max over sisters being incompetent not fulfilling their obligations rushing her home. Despite wanting to stay longer with group and expressing desire that sister understand her needs. Never changing her goals of becoming water master/strongest water trainer unlike Brock or Gary for example, Not being cleared up in what direction she will go regarding her dreams with future and story in her case being left unresolved.
 
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