Why did the writers gave Serena so little focus compared to May and Dawn?

[DatsRight]

Also while there is arguments Serena's character wasn't about getting stronger, there was still many blatant points they wanted to paint her as gaining a backbone or sticking up for a team mate and what not, clear stuff they wanted to show becoming more tough. But of course she never really got more tough, even against Team Rocket she could only handle the schemes a baby could outdo. Team Flare was infamous for this because they wanted to show her sticking up for Maron and taking matters into her own hands. But she needed saving or plot armoured all the time and never really demonstrated any more prowess, the moment she couldn't win with one hit Stephen or Ash stepped in. But... she still got the same praise as the others both in universe and in narrative, and Maron shilling her as being so amazing. It still felt like that was SUPPOSED to be Serena taking a level in badass.

People say it's just minor stuff and the development from it was more important, but that itself still felt like badly handled development. Seeing this character always shilled as getting tougher and better when it never really happened.

Team Rocket has always been defeated easily, why do you keep complaining about it?

Because it was just after an era they WEREN'T, hell even in a lot of early XY when she didn't take part, they were still partway a challenge or you know, didn't always appear so other obstacles got a turn. XYZ spamming useless Team Rocket over anything else felt suspiciously in favour of being the one opponent Serena could always win and look strong against without any necessary substance needed. The straw loser effect. Yeah, lots of companions job TR, but it's not the ONLY thing they have to look strong in every damn episode, and even then they did a few 'not so harmless' Team Rocket face-offs in there to give their competence actual substance and you know, make the series a lot more interesting to watch.

Serena just felt spoiled by 'action shilling' in XY. She probably would have worked better in a slice of life series like Sun and Moon where they wouldn't need to make her look superficially badass all the time, though even then, the likes of SM Ash have weaknesses they are allowed to fail miserably at to humanise their characters. It felt like they always backed from fully playing out anything where Serena couldn't have the last word in some way, like it was too 'mean' for her to lose or be the butt monkey at anything.

 

[Satomine Night]

Also while there is arguments Serena's character wasn't about getting stronger, there was still many blatant points they wanted to paint her as gaining a backbone or sticking up for a team mate and what not, clear stuff they wanted to show becoming more tough. But of course she never really got more tough, even against Team Rocket she could only handle the schemes a baby could outdo. Team Flare was infamous for this because they wanted to show her sticking up for Maron and taking matters into her own hands. But she needed saving or plot armoured all the time and never really demonstrated any more prowess, the moment she couldn't win with one hit Stephen or Ash stepped in. But... she still got the same praise as the others both in universe and in narrative, and Maron shilling her as being so amazing. It still felt like that was SUPPOSED to be Serena taking a level in badass.

Forgive me for being blunt, but you seem to be hung up on using Serena's battle skills as an indication of her strength as a character, and you seem to be forgetting all the other signs of her gaining a backbone or becoming stronger/tougher. She gained the courage to stand up to her mother so she could pursue her dream; and she became more determined in her goal as a Performer, just to name a couple examples. She did grow stronger as a person, regardless of how she performed in battle against Team Rocket--who, I remind you, was curbstomped by everybody, not just by Serena.

Serena's character was not about battling. She was not a battler, even if she was forced into battles.

Because it was just after an era they WEREN'T, hell even in a lot of early XY when she didn't take part, they were still partway a challenge or you know, didn't always appear so other obstacles got a turn. XYZ spamming useless Team Rocket over anything else felt suspiciously in favour of being the one opponent Serena could always win and look strong against without any necessary substance needed. The straw loser effect. Yeah, lots of companions job TR, but it's not the ONLY thing they have to look strong in every damn episode, and even then they did a few 'not so harmless' Team Rocket face-offs in there to give their competence actual substance and you know, make the series a lot more interesting to watch.

Perhaps to you, it felt like Team Rocket being shoehorned in as the source of conflict was suspiciously in favor of them being the one opponent Serena could always defeat, but I consider Team Rocket being shoehorned in as the source of conflict to be just be lazy writing, and it had nothing to do with Serena at all. If you want to blame someone for Team Rocket jobbing to everyone, blame the writers, not Serena or any of the other characters.

 

[den21]

I guess what Datsright means is that with serena its more Tell dont show in relation to her Pokemon battle skills (meaning that the Show does acknowledge that shes not a battler but rarely treats it like it and even though she didnt train much or does something different later on when battling compared to early on, it is treated as if she improved very much in battling)


Thats however more in terms of Battling( that wasnt her goal, i know , still other characters didnt exactly treat her as lacking in battle skills even if she actually wasnt too good at it).

Aside from that aspect which bugged me a little (which is is obviously my opinion)
I myself found that she grew as character instead quite a bit in becoming more self confident and finding her goal as well and like her quite much ^^

 

[DatsRight]

Even besides battling, there was barely any amount of times I thought Serena got adversity and was forced to be competent or earn her happy ending. Even besides battling, Ash and Clemont had times they proved to be smart and use distinctive abilities, and it still wasn't easy just because of that, Serena always felt plot armoured. There wasn't a whole lot at all she did that I didn't think a four year old could have done. As said before, the showcases felt plot armoured in her favour, making her rivals automatically 'below' her despite actually pulling a lot more impressive stunts and improvements, and all action scenes, be it battling or just working through a plan, felt like she was in this protective bubble so she never got hurt or was in any real danger. If it genuinely got tough, she was sidelined or saved before she got in too deep, compared to other protagonists who could suffer and be on the losing end to show their fallibility at times or just how they could overcome it in some impressive way. She was never made to excel in such a way, and yet it still felt like the show was pushing her as some sort of underdog that was proving her worth.

As said battle specific or not, XY was heavy on action and competition, and whenever it was Serena's turn you knew it was going to be an anti climax so she could win painlessly, which made the whole plot very boring.

 

[den21]

Even besides battling, there was barely any amount of times I thought Serena got adversity and was forced to be competent or earn her happy ending. Even besides battling, Ash and Clemont had times they proved to be smart and use distinctive abilities, and it still wasn't easy just because of that, Serena always felt plot armoured. There wasn't a whole lot at all she did that I didn't think a four year old could have done. As said before, the showcases felt plot armoured in her favour, making her rivals automatically 'below' her despite actually pulling a lot more impressive stunts and improvements, and all action scenes, be it battling or just working through a plan, felt like she was in this protective bubble so she never got hurt or was in any real danger. If it genuinely got tough, she was sidelined or saved before she got in too deep, compared to other protagonists who could suffer and be on the losing end to show their fallibility at times or just how they could overcome it in some impressive way. She was never made to excel in such a way, and yet it still felt like the show was pushing her as some sort of underdog that was proving her worth.

As said battle specific or not, XY was heavy on action and competition, and whenever it was Serena's turn you knew it was going to be an anti climax so she could win painlessly, which made the whole plot very boring.

I unterstand what you mean and something like that annoys me in general too if substance lacks in series i watch
(this wasnt only serena but stil) but despite that i personally found that not that bad (it could be better but in everyone percives things differently) and doesnt affect my opinion of serena as i like her for other things

hope sm improves it (good job so far mostly even if some characters need some focus etc.)

I guess its as well because xy is somewhat odd in a way even if i am fond of it (for example the lack of banter and ash limited reactions to other people) though thats not the reason perhaps, i guess they wanted to rush the action part development because it was all about action etc. in xy. and they done it often by now.

Still you make good points and think quite critically (even if you bring up serena a little often, though i guess this is more about if a character is like that as you mentioned may and some others as well) and i cant exactly put my all my thoughts well in those posts so maybe someone misunterstands (i dont speak english as native language)

and many bring up quite cool opinions as well (hope you unterstand me i really dont write often texts ^^)

 

[Jeal]

Also while there is arguments Serena's character wasn't about getting stronger, there was still many blatant points they wanted to paint her as gaining a backbone or sticking up for a team mate and what not, clear stuff they wanted to show becoming more tough. But of course she never really got more tough, even against Team Rocket she could only handle the schemes a baby could outdo. Team Flare was infamous for this because they wanted to show her sticking up for Maron and taking matters into her own hands. But she needed saving or plot armoured all the time and never really demonstrated any more prowess, the moment she couldn't win with one hit Stephen or Ash stepped in. But... she still got the same praise as the others both in universe and in narrative, and Maron shilling her as being so amazing. It still felt like that was SUPPOSED to be Serena taking a level in badass.

People say it's just minor stuff and the development from it was more important, but that itself still felt like badly handled development. Seeing this character always shilled as getting tougher and better when it never really happened.



Because it was just after an era they WEREN'T, hell even in a lot of early XY when she didn't take part, they were still partway a challenge or you know, didn't always appear so other obstacles got a turn. XYZ spamming useless Team Rocket over anything else felt suspiciously in favour of being the one opponent Serena could always win and look strong against without any necessary substance needed. The straw loser effect. Yeah, lots of companions job TR, but it's not the ONLY thing they have to look strong in every damn episode, and even then they did a few 'not so harmless' Team Rocket face-offs in there to give their competence actual substance and you know, make the series a lot more interesting to watch.

Serena just felt spoiled by 'action shilling' in XY. She probably would have worked better in a slice of life series like Sun and Moon where they wouldn't need to make her look superficially badass all the time, though even then, the likes of SM Ash have weaknesses they are allowed to fail miserably at to humanise their characters. It felt like they always backed from fully playing out anything where Serena couldn't have the last word in some way, like it was too 'mean' for her to lose or be the butt monkey at anything.

You are wrong. You think Team Rocket appearing so much it's because Serena ''needed'' show that she became stronger, but they just appeared because writers don't know how cause conflict without Team Rocket. Team Rocket has always been defeated easily. Did you remember OS002? They were defeated by a newly captured Caterpie. Serena never ''needed'' show strength in battle, because she was never a battler for begin.

 

[Mrs. Oreo]

I always got the feeling that Showcases were meant to be the equivalent of Beauty Pageants and that's why it was girls only considering real life ones tends to focus on just girls

That's what I've always assumed Showcases were based on, tho I don't think it was a bad thing since Serena had every right to compete in them. My only big issue with them was how the audience had all the say in who won those competitions. :[

 

[Satoshi & Touko]

Yeah, that's what Showcases sort of seemed to me too. That's partly why I can't see why so many people have an issue with it being girls only.

 

[Wednesdayz]

Weah. It also bothers me so much, that the only reason they girls are in the anime is to be a nice piece of meat *** to look at.

I wouldn't say that that's the only reason, though in Serena's case, the writers seemed keen to show her off as eye candy often, what with her needless crush.

 

[Epicocity]

I wouldn't say that that's the only reason, though in Serena's case, the writers seemed keen to show her off as eye candy often, what with her needless crush.

Actually, outside of the Fennekin outfit, Serena has the least amount of fanservice in general from any other female except for maybe Iris. Heck, she didn't even get a beach/swimsuit episode that all the other girls did, so this argument for Serena really falls apart a little.

 

[LilligantLewis]

Could someone who watches actual idol animes please tell me how they work?

People seem really upset that "girls only" and "audience vote" but given that they were trying to make a Pokémon version of idol animes, I definitely think the former is fine, and probably the latter too assuming that's how it is in actual idol animes.

The problems with Serena's development came not from either of those two reasons in quotes ^ but instead from how they handled the quest itself. They didn't even focus on the Showcases themselves.

At Dendemille, it was about backstage drama with the dress ripping.
At Anistar, it was about Eevee getting lost.
At Couriway, it was about Eevee falling.
At Fleurrh, it was about Amelia being a local & Palermo

Not once did they try to compare Serena's performance to another girl's performance, with BOTH doing well but Serena still losing.
They always had to make up some story to fill up the 21 mins because they didn't know how to write this quest.

The goal itself wasn't the problem, it was the way they wrote it. Not one of Serena's 7 performance episodes (5 Rookie Class + 2-part Master Class) focused just on everybody's performances to show whose was better. It was always about some side drama. Most performances weren't even fully shown except Serena's. The freaking Kalos Queen-winning performance by Aria wasn't fully shown.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

The only idol anime I ever vaguely watched was Kaleido Star, and the struggles in there were all about the main cast trying to learn some extreme routines. (Note that there's no such thing as magic and all that unlike Pokemon, but it's quite similar.)

Another similar idol theme was the entire plot of Persona 4: Dancing All Night, and holy hell, did it get the message through how unforgiving and weird the idol industry was. (Ignoring the supernatural them, hey, at least the idols sang here.)

 

[Rettan-Smogon]

Actually, outside of the Fennekin outfit, Serena has the least amount of fanservice in general from any other female except for maybe Iris. Heck, she didn't even get a beach/swimsuit episode that all the other girls did, so this argument for Serena really falls apart a little.

Fan service doesn't always means the outer look of a boy or a girl. The Shipping could also be seen as a gigantic fan service for the anime. In my eyes I still see Serena as the biggest female fan service of the anime. The anime is nothing but fan service. We can see that also on the Pokémon they use the most for roles in the anime.

 

[Jeal]

Could someone who watches actual idol animes please tell me how they work?

People seem really upset that "girls only" and "audience vote" but given that they were trying to make a Pokémon version of idol animes, I definitely think the former is fine, and probably the latter too assuming that's how it is in actual idol animes.

The problems with Serena's development came not from either of those two reasons in quotes ^ but instead from how they handled the quest itself. They didn't even focus on the Showcases themselves.

At Dendemille, it was about backstage drama with the dress ripping.
At Anistar, it was about Eevee getting lost.
At Couriway, it was about Eevee falling.
At Fleurrh, it was about Amelia being a local & Palermo

Not once did they try to compare Serena's performance to another girl's performance, with BOTH doing well but Serena still losing.
They always had to make up some story to fill up the 21 mins because they didn't know how to write this quest.

The goal itself wasn't the problem, it was the way they wrote it. Not one of Serena's 7 performance episodes (5 Rookie Class + 2-part Master Class) focused just on everybody's performances to show whose was better. It was always about some side drama. Most performances weren't even fully shown except Serena's. The freaking Kalos Queen-winning performance by Aria wasn't fully shown.

I think they did it because they thought Serena's goal was not good enough to entertain viewers and they needed some side-story to make the episodes interesting.

 

[LilligantLewis]

I think they did it because they thought Serena's goal was not good enough to entertain viewers and they needed some side-story to make the episodes interesting.

No, it's because they didn't know how to write it. They should have hired writers of other idol animes to write these eps. Read what AuraChannelerChris said above: both that he described seem to have actual challenges within the goal itself. Not once did we see Serena trying to create a new routine, or struggling on the routine itself, like Dawn's training eps where she could have been shown to be struggling with a routine she was trying to create

 

[Frozocrone]

I'm not really an avid watcher of idol anime (only real one I catch right now is Aikatsu Stars and that's because it's on just before SM) but isn't part of the idol culture repeating the same thing again and again because the audience likes it?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Do agree with 'challenges inside' - it's why I enjoyed her first win overcoming Jessie's backstage sabotage.

 

[DatsRight]

I think it was because it was the few times she had to be really creative and think outside her old plan, even if there wasn't much suggestion she would have lost if Jessie hadn't ruined her dress in the first place.

You are wrong. You think Team Rocket appearing so much it's because Serena ''needed'' show that she became stronger, but they just appeared because writers don't know how cause conflict without Team Rocket. Team Rocket has always been defeated easily. Did you remember OS002? They were defeated by a newly captured Caterpie. Serena never ''needed'' show strength in battle, because she was never a battler for begin.

Again Team Rocket had gotten better since OS002 and then they suddenly dropped again and the writers started shoving them in every episode like before. Serena probably wasn't the ONLY reason for this, but I do think they knew it was easier placing her against grunts like them instead of bothering to develop full battles and give her credibility substance, which they would have had to do against their more formidable DA/early XY counterparts. Why not finish one frigging official battle, win or lose, if it wasn't important instead of having a jobber like TR take over, except so Serena can end the situation winning?

Battling may not have been her primary goal but I still think they were shilling her as getting stronger, even if in the most superficial of ways. Otherwise they would have had no problem letting her get her *** kicked once in a while to demonstrate battling wasn't really her thing.

 

[LilligantLewis]

I'm not really an avid watcher of idol anime (only real one I catch right now is Aikatsu Stars and that's because it's on just before SM) but isn't part of the idol culture repeating the same thing again and again because the audience likes it?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Do agree with 'challenges inside' - it's why I enjoyed her first win overcoming Jessie's backstage sabotage.

Totally agreed. I just mean that if they had had episodes outside of the showcases themselves (like Dawn's training eps that were not actually happening at contests) where we saw Serena come up with a combination, and work with her Pokémon to perfect it, that would have been better than just seeing her results on stage. All the coming up with combinations and training happened offscreen.

While people blame the goal itself, I blame the writers for not properly writing the goal.

 

[DatsRight]

Substance and demonstration was needed really. Serena's performances felt interchangeable and there wasn't really any demonstration her competition could match her. She felt a bit like a "boring invincible hero", she always won and in the most repetitive of ways. Just having her get outperformed legitimately ONCE and then showing her act spruce up in some significant way would have really gave it a more dynamic feel. Change her choreography to 'Candy Girl' perhaps (which is definitely different in beat and tone) or show one of her Pokemon training for a new move that comes in handy later.

I don't buy the whole 'there wasn't enough time' either. There were plenty of dispensable episodes that series they could have used to build up the showcases.

Not once did they try to compare Serena's performance to another girl's performance, with BOTH doing well but Serena still losing.
They always had to make up some story to fill up the 21 mins because they didn't know how to write this quest.

The goal itself wasn't the problem, it was the way they wrote it. Not one of Serena's 7 performance episodes (5 Rookie Class + 2-part Master Class) focused just on everybody's performances to show whose was better. It was always about some side drama. Most performances weren't even fully shown except Serena's. The freaking Kalos Queen-winning performance by Aria wasn't fully shown.

We got loads of 'these guys look tough' type generic exposition, again 'tell don't show' and failing to demonstrate in any way how Serena managed to overcome them. Trying to make her look strong and resilient without really putting any actual substance to it.

While people blame the goal itself, I blame the writers for not properly writing the goal.

In theory we can blame EVERY SINGLE FLAW in the series on writers instead of the character or story, it doesn't stop us from giving critique due to how they played out.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

I still think Serena seemed to be a last minute addition and the writers panicked and gave her such a flimsy reason to follow Ash. Sure there has to be a cook in every series but not in Kalos. With as many cafes and restaurants there are in Kalos, Ash, Bonnie, and Clemons wouldn't have starved to death. They could just walk by a small village and STILL would have found a place to sit down and eat.