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Why didn't Best Wishes use Hilda?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by Red and Blue, Apr 23, 2014.

  1. OfCorsola

    OfCorsola Brock and Misty!

    They would like to do that, but I think that they want to squeeze in a male lead.

    If you don't get it, then deal with it. People will not like characters here and there, and that's something we have to learn about, it's an opinion. If I dislike Iris, it isn't because I didn't give her a chance. I tried liking her, and it didn't work. I tried liking Dawn, it was super effective and I do. I just don't like Iris. Also, what? What is your reason that is so biased that you think everyone hates Iris? I don't dislike her for a biased reason. I already mentioned, like 1000 times that was obviously being ignored that I enjoyed her manga counterpart, and I'll say it again that Iris is my second favorite character in the manga. You can't say it's because of "jealousy" that is totally invalid. Seriously? Being jealous over a fictional character? Lol okay, Chalkus.
     
  2. Platinum fan.

    Platinum fan. RetiredPokemonMaster

    I think I'm in the minority in that I didn't want Hilda on the show, taking either Iris or Cilan's place. If anything I would have rather have seen her and Hilbert get a special like the Raikou Special, and maybe they have her and Hilbert fight Nate and Rosa...or Hilda and Rosa vs Hilbert and Nate. Or maybe Nate and Hilda vs Hilbert and Rosa. You get the point. That's really the only thing I would have really liked to have seen from a anime version of Hilda.
     
  3. chalkus

    chalkus Well-Known Member

    As I have said before, of course there are people who hate Iris. Everyone has their own preferences. There are people who like Max, for example, but I think he was garbage and dragged down the show. I have no intention of changing anyone's mind. What I don't understand is the reasoning behind the fervent dislike. It's like if I said I hate Max because he's a little kid but I like Bonnie because she's a little kid. A lot of the reasons people have given equal to just that and it makes absolutely no sense. To hate Iris because she beat Ash and is a bit snarky while liking or excusing other characters for the same thing is a contradiction.

    As far as Hilda replacing Cilan goes, if they could have four characters in AG after having three in OS, they could have a female teenage lead as well. Unfortunately, this show often sticks to its formula and doesn't often go outside the box.
     
  4. OfCorsola

    OfCorsola Brock and Misty!

    No, the Iris situation is A WHOLE lot different then Max and Bonnie..i like them both. I have my reasons to dislike Iris, and nothing's going to change that, it's not because she beat Ash, heck i love it when a female companion is stronger than Ash. She just wasn't enjoyable, and she wasn't funny either. She was always angry, lacked of originality, and those are my reasons.

    I don't like how the show does that either, it's sad indeed.
     
  5. Honestly, I don't like Bonnie at all: I'd rather have Iris back than her.

    I did like Max, though: I thought he had a lot of depth there.
     
  6. Lorde

    Lorde Banned

    Exactly. It just makes no sense to me how Misty's actions can be overlooked while Iris's similar antics are treated as blasphemous. I really like both characters btw.

    Sigh, if only Ash could've traveled with just two girls. Hilda might've been more likable to me than Cilan, so I wish she could've replaced him.
     
  7. Agreed: I like both Misty and Iris, but am I seeing this myself.
     
  8. MattySadler

    MattySadler Well-Known Member

    I always find it difficult relating to main characters who don't have Pokemon, personally. Its like a massive handicap. Probably the reason I never really warmed to Max.

    Hell, Tracey DID have three Pokemon and he may as well have had none, for all the good they were!
     
  9. I warmed to Max because at least he wasn't as annoying as he could've been, and I felt like he was there to be more than just cute, personally: it doesn't matter if they give Bonnie 60+ Pokemon to me, because it doesn't change the character to me.

    I agree on Tracey, but he was still okay to me-- nothing special, but he got the job done.
     
  10. OfCorsola

    OfCorsola Brock and Misty!

    that's why i didn't like Cilan and Iris, because they weren't original. Misty had similar actions, but that was original. I didn't want her to be rehashed. That's exactly why I didn't want her lure to show up in that one fishing episode, I don't like rehashes, and that's why I didn't like some of the hoenn, sinnoh, and etc's fillers because they were rehashes of kanto and johto fillers.
     
  11. Using that logic, you could argue Bonnie is a rehashed Max, only female and less nerdy, and Serena is a rehashed Dawn, only more inactive, and Clemont is the new Brock/Cilan, etc. but neither what you said there nor what I'm saying now is true: every character is different from each other-- there may be similarities, yes, but that doesn't change this fact.
     
  12. OfCorsola

    OfCorsola Brock and Misty!

    But, Cilan and Iris were toooo much like Misty and Brock. Serena could be a rehash of Dawn, but I don't see it much yet.. I can't say it's true about Bonnie and Max.
     
  13. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    Out of curiosity what was it about Max you hated? I understand if you didn't like the character but your hatred of him seems extreme compared to anything he did in the show.
     
  14. I can see that logic, but I don't see Cilan as being that much like Brock, and Iris definitely has her differences from Misty as well...my point being this logic could go both ways. I mean, I could also say Dawn is May 2.0, but I don't because that's not true.
     
  15. OfCorsola

    OfCorsola Brock and Misty!

    Yes, they did have their differances I agree. But they could have had Iris, a serious trainer, or they could have had her a sarcastic person, and such. Heck, they could've made her and Cilan make food together, rather than Cilan being the cook and the pokemon caretaker.
     
  16. Janovy

    Janovy Banned

    Except both Iris and Cilan took a part of Brock.

    Iris most commonly looked for berries and herbs that could help Pokemon while Cilan cooked. Iris often made stuff that healed Pokemon.
     
  17. Nodame

    Nodame Since 2008

    Wow... Chalkus. I'm curious now. I really should watch all BW episodes to find out why you like Iris so much lol.
     
  18. chalkus

    chalkus Well-Known Member

    I like Iris but I am not sold on the Best Wishes series as a whole. Watching Ash battle for a lot of that series was painful and his Nimbasa gym battle was the worst. And I think Iris is just badass. She started as a strong trainer and ended as a better one. She calmed rampaging dragon types with her bare hands and she has a dragonite at her age. If Iris had to bare knuckle fight a hitmonchan, I would put my money on her. That's how tough she is.

    1. He talks like he is a pokemon expert and criticised Ash's battling ability throughout the series despite never owning a pokemon. What sense does it make for a guy who never battled to tell someone who had collected 16 gym badges how to battle. And he did this over and over again. It would be like if Dexter in Dexter's Lab spent the entire show running his mouth about science and inventions while never making a single thing. Max wasn't credible or believable and spent the entire series acting like a pretentious, know it all lout who should have kept his mouth shut instead running it off all the time.

    2. He bogged down May's character. Either he was giving her his crappy advice or was getting into stupid arguments, some of which led to him running off and leaving her to go get him. Max was the equivalent to tying an anchor around May's ankles and tossing her overboard. I think May's character would have developed much better without him being around. I don't blame her for ditching Max at the end of BF like she did.

    3. He's a kid who doesn't act his age. I found Bonnie to be refreshing because she is a kid on an adventure acting like a kid on an adventure. Max on the other hand was the animated equivalent to Mel Gibson's youngest son in Signs. He doesn't act like a kid. Instead he behaved like a trainer wannabe who couldn't back up a single thing he said. And even though he tried to act older, he often exposed himself to being a petulant brat who really needed a patented Misty boot to the face.

    @Pokeshipper9000: You stated that Iris is a psychopath and is always angry. How can you say that when Misty has at times violently struck Ash outside of slapstick comedy and has needed people to hold her back when she goes off on her rage-a-thons. I don't see the criticism for that.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  19. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    Interesting

    Its pretty obvious he studied Pokemon which is why he was able to identify attacks/pokemon like Brock does. Of course there were times where he was wrong or hypocritical, but that's because he's a kid and this was his first time on a journey.

    I wouldn't say so, some of May's best character development moments came from Max. If it were just Ash, May and Brock in AG....I'm not really sure what that dynamic would be.

    In other words, Max functioned in the same role as Iris, just too young to have pokemon. In Iris' case though, its that the writers overpowered her likely because she was the champion in the BW2 games. Even Misty was never overpowered like that, she was just an average trainer while she was with Ash and the writers didn't feel the need to glorify her unless she deserved it.
     
  20. szmty

    szmty THIS CITY IS OURS!

    I finished reading the entire conversation and I think this post is the best part of it, and I completely agree with it. I'd say this is the exact reason why Iris and BW in general are disliked by many fans. Of course, I've seen a good number of fans in these forums, but in general, when I talk about the anime, be it in other sites, with my friends, etcetera, we always agree that BW was a low point mainly because of Ash's personality reset, plus the changes in things such as art style for example. Ash's had already matured into a competent and smart trainer who knew what he did. Then, when he touches land in Unova, he seemingly stepped on a reset button, because his personality was almost completely retconned into that of the 10 years old rookie who left Pallet Town. I think he was even shrunk a little! And then comes Iris, the new Misty-like character. When Misty teased Ash for being a rookie, it was fine, because he did was a rookie when they travelled together. When Iris does it, it's not funny, because you know he's far from being a rookie (or at least, he should be).

    I'm not sure if things would have been very different if Hilda was used instead of Iris. It's quite possible that she could have had a very similar personality to that of Iris. However, I think she would have been quite less wild, since her look isn't as cartoonish as Iris's, and that's a fact that it should be accepted about her; she's more cartoony than most past characters, both in appearance and in attitude. Don't take me wrong. I mean "cartoonish" as a good thing. I believe that when you have such a character, you're able to do more things with him/her. Hilda would have looked odd if she had swung on vines like Iris did for example. Her design doesn't allow that kind of treatment. Iris doesn't look that out-of-place, because her look is that of someone who would do that kind of things, and that's one of the pros of her character, and actually, I feel this one of the main reasons why she was chosen.

    What follows is wild mass guessing about why was she chosen exactly:
    Read it under your own risk!

    Why was she chosen? Because the series became more cartoony itself. My theory is that the Pokémon anime was switched into "full kodomo mode". Pokémon has always been directed at children, but it still had a deal of appeal to older people, specially teenagers and young adults who grew watching the anime. In my opinion, if we had a sliding scale between kodomo and shonen, OS would be at or very near of the shonen end, AG would be at 3/4 of the slide, DP would be at the very half, and BW would be located at the kodomo end. My theory that the writers thought that they were losing their main market since they noticed that older people were also watching the anime, and decided to make it completely kodomo in order to try to get more younger audience. In order to make it more 'obvious', they reset Ash, and introduced Iris and Cilan, who look more cartoony than Dawn and Brock, and could fill the tasks of being the new Misty and the new Brock respectively. They changed the vibe of the anime by changing other things such as the art style, to make it even more appealing to children.

    Again, this last part is a personal theory and shouldn't be treated seriously.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
    pokemon fan 132 likes this.

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