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Why didn't Best Wishes use Hilda?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by Red and Blue, Apr 23, 2014.

  1. OfCorsola

    OfCorsola Brock and Misty!

    @chalkus
    I'm sorry I offended your precious iris.
    I still think she's like this and NONE of you guys will EVER change that.plus Misty hasn't had like an anger attack since early Johto. Take a look at a random hoenn episode, and she doesn't even simply "raise" her voice.
    She wasn't unoriginal, and that's why I prefer her, nothing is going to change that no matter what you guys try to do. So I just suggest you stop comparing her to Misty.
     
  2. pokemon fan 132

    pokemon fan 132 Well-Known Member

    Actually Misty showed anger attacks in mid/late Johto too with other people like prick Andreas, Schuckle elder or Dorian. Got into clash with Ash when they got lost, missed out on train, who is better trainer etc. Had her outbursts at Brock, Team Rocket, Meowth etc. It just wasnt as frequent as it used to be.
    She definitely raised her voice against TR or colonel Hanson in Hoenn too, while showing hotheaded, spunky demeanor in interactions with Ash, Brock and others.

    Only difference is that violent aspect wasn't present, but than again violence and slapstick humor in having characters punch each other or slap stopped happening after first half of Kanto more or less. With physical contacts being reduced in stomping sometime on other people foot, grabbing others by neck, smacking them with bag, pull by ear etc.

    But i definitely have to agree with you how some members when comparing Misty to Iris present her character in rather innacurate light. Because Misty wasn't mean and conceited person which made sure to "harass others and make someone life miserable". Far from it.

    She was type of girl which was headstrong not letting others to put her down, who knew how to stand up for herself taking action when needed and her criticism, sarcasm and moments of irritation were in most cases justified. Keeping Ash and Brock in line to not make fool of themelves, helped Ash through pointing out flaws to become stronger trainer and better person. And served as push, motivation for others to try harder making her unique in that sense.

    At same time she revealed to be optimistic, caring and unselfish being very loyal as person and friend. On several occasions saving Ash life, taking care of her friends when they were sick(like Brock and Tracey), showed lot of concern when they were in danger and encouraging or comforting them over their loses and letdowns(such as Ash losing vs Gary, Brock being rejected by girls he really liked etc).:)
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  3. OfCorsola

    OfCorsola Brock and Misty!

    I agree with Pokemon fan 132.
    The problem is, I'm sick and tired of hearing that I dislike Iris, because of only one thing, and it's okay that I let Misty slide with it.
    I have my reasons, and people has theirs, but I don't want to be told that it's invalid. Seriously? I'm trying to reach out my opinion here, but apparently it's "wrong"
    Anyways, I can't emphasize more than what I'm trying to say. That's all I have.
    I'm out.
     
  4. Shiny-Psyduck

    Shiny-Psyduck Well-Known Member

    I feel the main idea is that when Misty was in the cast, Ash was young and naive so it was justified for her to ridicule Ash for being immature; because the simple fact is that he was. When Iris came along, he had done a considerable amount of maturity and was much more grownup and mature since his Kanto-Johto days. And even then Iris gave him the same repetitive ridicule on a much more often basis than Misty ever did.
     
  5. ^Ash hasn't grown up or matured at all in terms of his age: he's still 10 years old. Losing your personality =/= maturation, BTW.^
     
  6. szmty

    szmty THIS CITY IS OURS!

    Ash's exact age hadn't been mentioned since the very first episode, so many assumed that he had grown up, including me. The fact that he had become more mature in his personality made us think so at least. When we are told in BW001 that Ash is still ten, well, that's a hard pill to swallow. And then you start seeing how amateurish and reckless he becomes... his character suffered an almost complete reboot!
     
    MidnightMelody likes this.
  7. That's not a fact: that's an opinion, just like all of our statements are. I don't call what happened to Ash later on maturation overall: I call it losing your ability to express a variety of emotions barring happiness or battle hungry antics most of the time. Sure, it's less prominent in the XY Series than it was, say...DP...but I definitely prefer the way Ash was in the older series to the way he's been since the DP series. I prefer a kid acting like a kid rather than a guy who's cool and badass, unlike most-- very unpopular opinion in this fandom, but it's just how I feel.

    I'm not denying that happened in BW: I'm not happy about it, but I haven't like the direction they've taken with the character in general as time as progressed.

    Ash was 10 in the OS, he was 10 in AG, he was 10 in DP, he was 10 in BW, and he's 10 in XY: whether you like it or not, this is the only fact here, I'm sorry.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  8. Magma Bomb

    Magma Bomb Member

    Hilda is too old, she would look awkward near Ash.
    Also, they probably didn't manage to downgrade her appearence to make her look 10 like they did with Serena.
     
  9. szmty

    szmty THIS CITY IS OURS!

    Ash's Bulbapedia article has always stated that his age is 10, but it only used EP001 as the reference, because his age hadn't been mentioned again, until BW001. It was until then that we could confirm that Ash really stayed 10 after all. Until then, it was assumed that he had grown more, as the passage of time had been clarified during the length of the series, and his character was developed further. We know from what the narrator says that it took around a year for Ash to get all his Kanto gym badges for example and that he had to wait a couple of months to compete in the Indigo League. I don't know about you, but I even noticed that he got a bit taller. In OS, Misty was a few inches taller than him, but when she reappears in AG, Ash is now the same height. From things like that, the assumption became more strong.

    I'd dare to say (and I think I said that in a previous post) that when BW began and Ash's age was officially clarified again (for the first time in almost 14 years [!] by the way), his character was drawn shorter. Perhaps it's just a side effect of the new art style, or maybe I need glasses :I

    After so many years, you expect some growth after all.

    Also, I don't think that Ash character began his change in DP. The series overall feel did changed through DP, but it wasn't that immediate. It was a long process that began at the end of Battle Frontier. That's why I say that DP is at the half of the scale between kodomo and shonen. I'd say that Ash's personality matured through DP. And I keep saying "matured" because I think it wasn't obvious at that time that he was still 10, because of the assumption that I'm mentioning above. If Ash never really grew after all, at least he had become smarter and a higher quality trainer. In my opinion, BW was when Ash's character was changed. I say that it was rebooted because he began to act like he did at the beginning of OS. Seeing him acting like that again was very painful to me, because of all what he had achieved up to that point.

    But well, now we are all sure that he was 10 years old all the time, and that he'll possibly be 10 years old for the rest of the series, and I'll have to accept that. No matter how much I'd like to see Ash growing up and accomplishing his goals, I'm not the writer, so I can't make it happen.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  10. Bakphoon™

    Bakphoon™ Heated Fury

    Hilda? I guess she was not fitting at all.
     
  11. Dew Watatsumi

    Dew Watatsumi Water Type E-3

    Because her shorts are tighter than Misty's
     
  12. Blood Red

    Blood Red ...

    I can't seem to find anything wrong with that :p
     
  13. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    Maybe it was to try something different. Imagine if Serena came directly after Dawn? We'd go to two girly girl females with long hair in a row with short skirts.

    I always saw Iris as an experiment since she looked and acted so different than the usual girl companion
     
  14. chalkus

    chalkus Well-Known Member

    Probably, but I suspect it was an experiment they won't attempt again for quite a while, which is sad.
     
  15. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    They won't. The general consensus has spoken. Its also probably why the female leads got much more girly and feminine as the show progressed. We went from the tomboyish Misty, to May who was pretty much half and half, than the girly Dawn, and not counting Iris went to the even more girlier and feminine Serena. It's kind of funny actually.
     
  16. chalkus

    chalkus Well-Known Member

    I will never understand why a character who is strong, independent and capable like Iris is hated while a character who is meek, indecisive and being used so blatantly for a will they, won't they dynamic is loved. In this day and age, isn't it supposed to be the other way around.
     
  17. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    I'd agree with you, but I don't think Iris was written that well in terms of role. Probably had to do with the fact that the BW series in general felt pretty badly written at times though.

    Also I find it ironic you like Dawn and Iris at the same time, since Dawn is the exact opposite of the reasons you like Iris.
     
  18. Sephora

    Sephora yes I'm back

    I think they just wanted a change from the regular female playable character joining the cast.
     
  19. chalkus

    chalkus Well-Known Member

    @Pokeshipper9000 - I don't mean just Iris per se but her character type. It makes me wonder if Misty was introduced in BW if she would have been received the same way.

    Yeah, Best Wishes definitely has its issues. As much as I like Iris I have not seen all the eps yet because of how awful some of those episodes were.

    As for Dawn, if she were an airhead who lacked pokemon battling ability and was stuck in some nowhere relationship, I wouldn't care about her. But she was determined, confident and intelligent. I liked the way she developed so many combinations and techniques that Ash himself copied to win gym battles. She was a strong trainer, if only she focused on evolving her pokemon instead of leaving them cute.
     
  20. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    So if this is the case how do you feel about Serena? Even ignoring her lack of a goal, her personality is just to be Ash's girlfriend.
     

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