Why didn't Best Wishes use Hilda?

[OfCorsola]

I think Cilan was a straight up Brock clone. They just replaced Brock's quirkiness around women with Cilan's quirkiness with food. Other than that they were pretty much the same.

Iris and Misty is a different situation. While they were both born from the same mold I think there is enough of a difference between the two to make them different characters. I especially found Iris to be much funnier, more sarcastic ( that episode with Professor Juniper's father was priceless) and more likable than Misty. She also did not have to resort to violence or fan service to get her point across like Misty did.

Misty and Iris were basically the same, and Misty wasn't used for fan service, she was even written off the show because she wasn't fan service material. Keep that in mind.

I rather have had Hilda in the show, Misty was better than Iris and more likable. Boy, whatchu talking about Iris also had anger problems..lol

 

[chalkus]

Misty and Iris were basically the same, and Misty wasn't used for fan service, she was even written off the show because she wasn't fan service material. Keep that in mind.

I rather have had Hilda in the show, Misty was better than Iris and more likable. Boy, whatchu talking about Iris also had anger problems..lol

I see Iris being more emotional than angry. And at least she didn't go around slapping, punching or kicking anyone. And she was covered from head to toe. Unlike some people.

And I really don't get the infatuation with Hilda. She was a silent protagonist, meaning she had no personality other than being a good guy. What difference does it make if she is in the anime or not. She's just a black slate.

 

[CyberCubed]

I see Iris being more emotional than angry. And at least she didn't go around slapping, punching or kicking anyone. And she was covered from head to toe. Unlike some people.

And I really don't get the infatuation with Hilda. She was a silent protagonist, meaning she had no personality other than being a good guy. What difference does it make if she is in the anime or not. She's just a black slate.

The slapstick comedy of Kanto is one thing that is missing in the newer seasons. Misty and Brock would smack each other around. Anyone remember when Misty kicked Brock in the face, or Brock slammed his fist down on Misty's head in Bulbasaur's first episode?

Even Team Rocket don't slap each other around as much as they used to.

 

[Lorde]

I enjoyed Misty's occasional violent outbursts in early OS; it's too bad that characters like Iris couldn't even get away with teasing Ash because that apparently became taboo even though Misty's harshness was okay for some reason. Anyway, I wonder if Hilda would've teased Ash; I have a feeling that she would've gotten away with it if she had done it.

 

[IrieFuse]

The slapstick comedy of Kanto is one thing that is missing in the newer seasons. Misty and Brock would smack each other around. Anyone remember when Misty kicked Brock in the face, or Brock slammed his fist down on Misty's head in Bulbasaur's first episode?

Even Team Rocket don't slap each other around as much as they used to.

I completely agree. I miss those days. and I honestly have to say it's because of how sensitive the general public has gotten

awaiting negative rep...

 

[PokemonNation2000]

What I think the Anime really lacks now more than anything else is genuine emotional episodes and moments, at least in the OS characters' case-- Kanto (and generally the older seasons-- pre-DP if you want me to be specific, where the tone got a lot more battle focused and the emotional moments gradually declined over time) had plenty of that: the Kalos Saga has like none of these at all-- the closest we've come to that this entire saga is XY017, and even that ultimately resulted in Froakie and Ash merely jumping around on tree branches to train, and not so much truly emotionally moving or resonating whatsoever: Ash used to freaking cry for good reasons, like when he though Pikachu left him for good, when Misty and Brock left him in Ep. 275, when Lucario died, when he froze out in the cold with his Kanto Pokemon-- not just over battles because he lost to Paul or something like that, you know?

This goes for Team Rocket, too, not just Ash: they had like these amazing back stories where James was a rich guy who didn't want to get married to the woman his parents arranged him to marry and rebelled against them as he did not feel comfortable conforming to their way of life, when Jessie was a poor woman whose mother fought hard to help her make ends' meet, when Meowth had this whole episode where he wanted to impress this female Meowth Meowzie and even learned English to do so, but was rejected and joined TR so he could gain respect from Giovanni and become his top cat, etc. Now, they're just...pretty much mindless idiots, honestly.

And I really don't get the infatuation with Hilda. She was a silent protagonist, meaning she had no personality other than being a good guy. What difference does it make if she is in the anime or not. She's just a black slate.

I do agree here, man-- there's like...nothing there to really have any interest in: I'm kinda glad BW used Iris, honestly.

 

[chalkus]

it's too bad that characters like Iris couldn't even get away with teasing Ash because that apparently became taboo even though Misty's harshness was okay for some reason. Anyway, I wonder if Hilda would've teased Ash; I have a feeling that she would've gotten away with it if she had done it.

I think this comment deserves a prize. That's one thing I don't get about Misty fans. It's okay for Misty to scold Ash, slap him and deride him whenever she wants to but when Iris beats Ash in a pokemon battle and uses that 'such a kid' catchphrase of hers, she's the worst thing in the world. Makes no sense to me at all.

And I think Hilda would have teased Ash just as Iris did because Hilda had no personality in the games and she would have acted just as Iris did. Though I suspect that if that happened, the very same people who hate on Iris now would have no problem with it.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

I think this comment deserves a prize. That's one thing I don't get about Misty fans. It's okay for Misty to scold Ash, slap him and deride him whenever she wants to but when Iris beats Ash in a pokemon battle and uses that 'such a kid' catchphrase of hers, she's the worst thing in the world. Makes no sense to me at all..

That doesn't go for all of us, though: I mean, I'm a Misty fan, but I like Iris as well.

 

[Blue Saturday]

I see Iris being more emotional than angry. And at least she didn't go around slapping, punching or kicking anyone. And she was covered from head to toe. Unlike some people.

And I really don't get the infatuation with Hilda. She was a silent protagonist, meaning she had no personality other than being a good guy. What difference does it make if she is in the anime or not. She's just a black slate.

Hilda's cute, fanservice-y and white.

 

[Sprinter1988]

Nine times out of ten when Misty would yell at Ash or hit him it was the end result of an argument in which they both gave as good as they got, or Ash said something utterly stupid or insensitive to her.

Iris's catchphrase was actually often used to mock Ash's lack of knowledge - Ash didn't realise that he didn't need to battle all three leaders at the Striation Gym - such a little kid. Ash has never heard of a triple battle - such a little kid. Ash has never heard of a battle club - such a little kid.

To me Iris was a good idea, but one that ended up being handled abysmally. Her entire character can be summed up by one line that she spoke, stating that she could never own a Charizard because it wasn't a dragon type. That she had Emolga and Excadrill on hand at the time (two very un-dragon-like Pokémon) makes this a contender for dumbest thing ever said in the series.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

I think Cilan was a straight up Brock clone. They just replaced Brock's quirkiness around women with Cilan's quirkiness with food. Other than that they were pretty much the same.

Iris and Misty is a different situation. While they were both born from the same mold I think there is enough of a difference between the two to make them different characters. I especially found Iris to be much funnier, more sarcastic ( that episode with Professor Juniper's father was priceless) and more likable than Misty. She also did not have to resort to violence or fan service to get her point across like Misty did.

I don't see how honestly? Only similarity between Cilan and Brock was in playing role of older, guardian like figure which cooked for group, were supposedly more knowledgeable and informed than others and helped in navigation and finding what would be right path and quickest one to get to desired destination.

But everything else was very different. In characterization Brock was more down to earth and rational type of character. He was interested in romance, trying to get be noticed by other girls catching their attention, showed more compassion and understanding toeward pokemon in taking care of various wild, injured or poisoned ones being often eccentric in behavior going as far as licking them or going overboard in helping other people if he felt he could learn how to be better care taker through them . While being more wise and levelheaded as character when he needed to be.

In contrast Cilan was more flamboyant, slightly arrogant, passionate and full of interest for various hobbies like fishing, sleuthing for tracks acting like detective, trans, ufo phenomenon and other type of things.

Brock came from family where he at very young age had to take care of many younger brothers and sisters due to parents leaving them, which influenced his character in developing need to look for someone love and understanding possibly. While Cilan grew up with his other two brothers running together Striaton gym and having certain disputes going for them.

Brock wanted to become top breeder eventually changing his calling in becoming doctor feeling that way he will be able to take better care of pokemon and learn how to heal them and bring back in good shape.

Cilan is still gym leader(in dormant state right now) pursuing his dream of becoming S class conoisseur which are focused on detectiong synchronization between humans and their pokemon partners.

I could continue to name differences between this two characters.

About Iris, well dont get me wrong im not one of those which dislike her. In fact i actually enjoyed in jungle , wild like girl light Iris was present to us in pokemon series. Having bad experiences in past not being able to fit in society, preferring to live in forest surrounded by wild pokemon developing better understanding toward nature and spiritual side of life . While her snarky, hyperactive behabvoor was fun to watch.

However i feel Misty brought more soul to pokemon anime, certain charm in form of humor, endearment and tension with none of her successors managing to recapture vibrant flamboyant dynamic she produced in my opinion. With her straightforward attitude, complex demeanor being rough and sarcastic but also having that tender, girly side being timid, misunderstood due to sad past being belittled and downplayed by everyone else and her sisters having to quickly grow up and become selfreliant and in many ways insecure making her complete, realistic and with lot lot of depth character imo.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

I agree with Pokemon fan 132: Brock overall was the best male companion to travel with Ash, and while Cilan's similarities are definitely there with Brock's as he's mentioned (both were met in the 5th episodes of their respective series, both are the wiser figures of their group, both are very intelligent, etc.), the two are actually very different characters.

I have noticed that both Brock and Cilan have a lot of cheer as well as enthusiasm in what they do, though, which is something I don't see from Clemont at all, actually-- he's a bit dull and stoic by comparison. Yet, at the same time, Cilan has these food puns and Connoisseur language that was abnormal speech compared to how Brock spoke and how Clemont speaks now-- I feel Brock was the most well rounded of the three, and he really holds up the best overall.

The only time where I think Brock really became crap was in the DP Series when they flanderized his more negative traits like flirting with women and sidelined/shafted him reducing him to the obligatory cook as well as the narrator of battles about 85% of the time, but his final appearance in the BW Special w/Cilan he had was nice, enjoyable, and decent for him and Cilan as well...honestly, in that one Special, I feel they handled Brock's Pokemon Doctor Goal better than all of DP did as well. Really goes to show that the quality of the writing can do a number on a character, unfortunately, or conversely really help strengthen their appeal.

 

[OfCorsola]

@Chalkus: I don't see what's your problem with Mistys appearance. You're always talking about how she's not covered in like EVERY thread. What does being covered have to do? Is that why you didn't want hilda to be in best wishes? Because she wasn't covered? Iris did have anger issues, and I found it annoying because SHE HAD THE SAME LINE OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Dawn and May has been teasing Ash the same way Misty has before, and I'm still okay with that. I prefer Misty and Brock over Cilan and Iris, and I think it's okay for misty and Brock to slap and tease each other around because they were original, why would I want Iris be a clone and have her scold Ash around? Puh-leese. You need to understand that Misty and Brock slapping people around was Kanto, early pokemon, which had the most craziest scenes and plots ever. BW lacks that.

Most of all, I wouldn't want Hilda to be aggressive and slap Ash around or anything. It's too unoriginal, and I see her being sweet, spontaneous, and a serious trainer. That's what id like to see her portray in BW.

Anyways, I still support my statement, that Iris was the worse handled character. And no it's not because I prefer Hilda, or because I'm a "Misty" Fan, it's because I think BW didn't do a good job in handling characters in general For example, I thought the manga did an excellent job portraying Iris. She was funny, a great trainer, serious, and she was actually my second favorite character in that arc.

So..BAM.

 

[Nodame]

And at least she didn't go around slapping, punching or kicking anyone. And she was covered from head to toe. Unlike some people.

it’s time for a lesson in Japanese culture in anime/manga. Its called "tsundere" which is a popular japanese term used for humour. They are the easiest characters to create comedy with. I'm glad Misty has this trait. Gotta love 'em

I think this comment deserves a prize. That's one thing I don't get about Misty fans. It's okay for Misty to scold Ash, slap him and deride him whenever she wants to but when Iris beats Ash in a pokemon battle and uses that 'such a kid' catchphrase of hers, she's the worst thing in the world. Makes no sense to me at

Huh? That's not true at all. Most Misty fans that I know like Iris as well. I personally didn't care for her.

 

[Sephora]

And she was covered from head to toe. Unlike some people.

Are you seriously questioning the attire of a fictional character? OK there...

 

[Navin]

Guys chalkus is a known Dawn fanboy and doesn't like Misty in general...

What I think the Anime really lacks now more than anything else is genuine emotional episodes and moments, at least in the OS characters' case-- Kanto (and generally the older seasons-- pre-DP if you want me to be specific, where the tone got a lot more battle focused and the emotional moments gradually declined over time) had plenty of that: the Kalos Saga has like none of these at all-- the closest we've come to that this entire saga is XY017, and even that ultimately resulted in Froakie and Ash merely jumping around on tree branches to train, and not so much truly emotionally moving or resonating whatsoever: Ash used to freaking cry for good reasons, like when he though Pikachu left him for good, when Misty and Brock left him in Ep. 275, when Lucario died, when he froze out in the cold with his Kanto Pokemon-- not just over battles because he lost to Paul or something like that, you know?

I mean I agree that the emotional tone of the series has definitely lessened from Kanto/Orange Islands onward, but it was shown decently in parts of DP. I thought Ash/Chimchar had some great emotional moments and bonding; I also liked Ash/Gliscor. As for the last bit, I thought he had every right to be emotional after that crushing defeat at Lake Acuity because show never really showed Ash getting outclassed to such a degree before.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

I mean I agree that the emotional tone of the series has definitely lessened from Kanto/Orange Islands onward, but it was shown decently in parts of DP. I thought Ash/Chimchar had some great emotional moments and bonding; I also liked Ash/Gliscor. As for the last bit, I thought he had every right to be emotional after that crushing defeat at Lake Acuity because show never really showed Ash getting outclassed to such a degree before.

I'm not denying that there were some decent moments there like the ones you mentioned here, but it seemed like during that saga, the emotion really began to die down big time: I'm not just referring to Ash, though, of course-- Team Rocket and Brock are actually where I noticed this was moreso the case...I mean, aside from the Cacnea and Dustox release episodes in TR's case, TR's most emotional moment was in that awful "Noodles: Roamin' Off!" episode where they were pretty much so utterly stupid that I couldn't relate to them at all-- the rest of the time...no, just no. Brock's most emotional episode was...probably DP190 on the boat where he helped cure the sick Pichu with Happiny...and even then, they had to overplay the flirting gag there with Nurse Joy, but that completely pales in comparison to his best moments from Kanto to Battle Frontier altogether-- this was the guy who would stay up all night with a Sharpedo when it could've attacked him at any point brushing it and trying to nurture it back to health, regardless of what it took...the guy who took a whole episode helping out a Stantler that everyone else was too afraid to approach and even then, he wouldn't let anyone hurt it...even if it meant he would be in danger himself...not the same at all.

Probably the most touching thing was the Chimchar subplot with Ash in DP, though, but to me it doesn't even compare to where in Johto, Ash went out in the cold to rescue Chikorita and in M03 where he went crazy trying to get his mother back at any cost (he only did this with his Pokemon later on), same on going out into the cold to rescue Snorunt in Hoenn, when Lucario died and Ash cried, etc.

 

[Navin]

Probably the most touching thing was the Chimchar subplot with Ash in DP, though, but to me it doesn't even compare to where in Johto, Ash went out in the cold to rescue Chikorita and in M03 where he went crazy trying to get his mother back at any cost (he only did this with his Pokemon later on), same on going out into the cold to rescue Snorunt in Hoenn, when Lucario died and Ash cried, etc.

Well I disagree just because I feel Infernape, alongside the likes of Pikachu, Zard, Bulbasaur, and Sceptile, has one of the best bonds with Ash. I thought the entire arc with Infernape culminating in that win against Paul at the league was nicely done. DP had some other great emotional moments. Like I said, the aftermath of the Paul battle. Gliscor. Dawn's losses. Pikachu nearly dying in the Pokemon Center, etc.

I'd like to see more emotion in XY though. Ash going Altair off the tower was pretty crazy; his bond with Froakie looks like it could become a good one; the Amourshippy flashback was undeniably cute; Clemont in general has a lot of heart and emotion.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

Well I disagree just because I feel Infernape, alongside the likes of Pikachu, Zard, Bulbasaur, and Sceptile, has one of the best bonds with Ash. I thought the entire arc with Infernape culminating in that win against Paul at the league was nicely done. DP had some other great emotional moments. Like I said, the aftermath of the Paul battle. Gliscor. Dawn's losses. Pikachu nearly dying in the Pokemon Center, etc.

I'd like to see more emotion in XY though. Ash going Altair off the tower was pretty crazy; his bond with Froakie looks like it could become a good one; the Amourshippy flashback was undeniably cute; Clemont in general has a lot of heart and emotion.

Understandable on Ash in DP, though for me none of those moments (sans Dawn's losses-- that's the most emotionally resonating thing to me in all of DP, honestly) but you obviously agree the emotion died down with both Brock and Team Rocket there-- that's something we agree on there, and that's the overall point I'm making. It declined there, no doubt, overall.

The battle against Paul at Lake Acuity...it's simply not comparable to Lucario dying...it just isn't, IMHO. Gliscor was good, though, I agree-- I liked the way Ash and him interacted as well in general.

Oh, god, that episode with Pikachu nearly dying in the center was HORRIBLE-- all "Pika and Goliath" managed to do was do a terrible ripoff of "Electric Shock Showdown" from the OS, man-- that one I completely disagree with.

Yeah, XY is lacking emotion either way, no doubt.

The tower thing to me was awful because Pikachu fell off randomly and then Ash just went and dove to save it like literally at the last second-- not emotional at all. If it had been Garchomp, however, THEN it would have good.

His bond with Froakie was good in XY017, but still, not really all that emotional at the end because it just resulted in him training with it any way.

I'm going to deny the AmourShipping thing was cute only because I don't like that crap, period.

I never said Clemont didn't: he's my favorite character this saga, easily, for that reason.

 

[Navin]

Understandable on Ash in DP, though for me none of those moments (sans Dawn's losses-- that's the most emotionally resonating thing to me in all of DP, honestly) but you obviously agree the emotion died down with both Brock and Team Rocket there-- that's something we agree on there, and that's the overall point I'm making. It declined there, no doubt, overall.

Well Brock really didn't all that much in DP, so there's that...it really should have just been the Ash and Dawn show (which it was but Brock was inserted for obligatory third party member). Well you mentioned the TR release episodes, those were the only ones I remembered that were pretty emotional.

The battle against Paul at Lake Acuity...it's simply not comparable to Lucario dying...it just isn't, IMHO.

Well, I mean, one is about death...and the other is a loss. I mean it's hard to compare emotions when one of them is X dying.

Oh, god, that episode with Pikachu nearly dying in the center was HORRIBLE-- all "Pika and Goliath" managed to do was do a terrible ripoff of "Electric Shock Showdown" from the OS, man-- that one I completely disagree with.

True, it was a ripoff, but it was emotional. Also that battle was pretty awesome, even though they were spamming Volt Tackles left and right.

Yeah, XY is lacking emotion either way, no doubt. The tower thing to me was awful because Pikachu fell off randomly and then Ash just went and dove to save it like literally at the last second-- not emotional at all. If it had been Garchomp, however, THEN it would have good.

Well the logistics of catching Garchomp aside, I thought it was nice how Ash instinctively will do anything for Pikachu without a second's hesitation, even if it was suicidal.

His bond with Froakie was good in XY017, but still, not really all that emotional at the end because it just resulted in him training with it any way.

Yeah, I'm thinking his relationship with Froakie will be like the one with Treecko/Grovyle/Sceptile.

I'm going to deny the AmourShipping thing was cute only because I don't like that crap, period.

Fair enough. I thought it was a cute scene, although what really made the scene was the beautifully orchestrated Laverre City Theme.

I never said Clemont didn't: he's my favorite character this saga, easily, for that reason.

Yeah, I was just saying how his very character is full of emotion.