Why didn't Best Wishes use Hilda?

[PokemonNation2000]

Well Brock really didn't all that much in DP, so there's that...it really should have just been the Ash and Dawn show (which it was but Brock was inserted for obligatory third party member). Well you mentioned the TR release episodes, those were the only ones I remembered that were pretty emotional.


Well, I mean, one is about death...and the other is a loss. I mean it's hard to compare emotions when one of them is X dying.


True, it was a ripoff, but it was emotional. Also that battle was pretty awesome, even though they were spamming Volt Tackles left and right.


Well the logistics of catching Garchomp aside, I thought it was nice how Ash instinctively will do anything for Pikachu without a second's hesitation, even if it was suicidal.


Yeah, I'm thinking his relationship with Froakie will be like the one with Treecko/Grovyle/Sceptile.


Fair enough. I thought it was a cute scene, although what really made the scene was the beautifully orchestrated Laverre City Theme.


Yeah, I was just saying how his very character is full of emotion.

Agreed on Brock, and yeah, TR really had nothing actually emotional in all of DP other than those 2 release episodes-- even in AG, they had way more, like with "A Poached Ego," "Seeing is Believing," Ep. with the twerps in Granite Cave ("Seeing is Believing" in Jessie's case, Eps. with Granite Cave in James' case), "Sweet Baby James," "The Ole Berate and Switch," "Time Warp Heals All Wounds," etc.

True, but you see my point that Lucario dying is more emotional than Ash losing his battle against Paul.

Eh, I didn't feel that way...to each their own, though.

It was nice, but this is something Ash has always been willing to do since Day 1-- it's nothing new, and it would've been better if Pikachu had actually been the focus of the episode like back in AG when Ash dove to save it because there was a good reason for why it was suffering-- that wasn't the case in XY at all.

Agreed there, man.

It was the BGM, really, IMO.

No doubt, man: no doubt.

 

[chalkus]

Guys chalkus is a known Dawn fanboy and doesn't like Misty in general..

I have been defending Iris this entire thread so I don't know what being a Dawn fan has to do with anything. I think it is safe to say that in the west, Misty is the most beloved Pokegirl while Iris is the most disliked. This despite the fact that they both share similar character traits and goals. A lot of the reasons people hate Iris are things that Misty did a lot worse. My question is why? How does this make any sense? It would be like if I said I like Dawn because she's into fashion but I hate Serena because she's into fashion. It's completely illogical and that was the point I am trying to make.

And then there are threads like this that suggest Hilda would have been a better fit than Iris, which again makes me wonder why? Hilda was a silent protagonist and had no personality, mannerisms or demeanor whatsoever other than being a generic good guy. Yet somehow she's better than Iris. Why? Because she wears daisy dukes? Would Iris wearing daisy dukes have made her a better character?

If Hilda was in BW she most likely would have acted just as Iris did, so what really is the difference. Though I am sure that the people complaining about Iris now would have no problem if that was the case. Is it because of the daisy dukes again, or is it something else.

I could understand people suggesting to replace Iris with a de-aged Skyla or another gym leader. People with actual character. I still wouldn't support it but I could see the argument to be made but Hilda? I just don't get it.

I might be a Dawn fan but I didn't dismiss Iris like a lot of Misty fans initially did to May. I gave Iris a chance and found her to be a good character. I just wish other people would too instead of dismissing her for no good reason.

 

[Navin]

It was the BGM, really, IMO.

Well I liked kid Ash, but you're right, it really was the BGM.

I have been defending Iris this entire thread so I don't know what being a Dawn fan has to do with anything. I think it is safe to say that in the west, Misty is the most beloved Pokegirl while Iris is the most disliked. This despite the fact that they both share similar character traits and goals. A lot of the reasons people hate Iris are things that Misty did a lot worse. My question is why? How does this make any sense? It would be like if I said I like Dawn because she's into fashion but I hate Serena because she's into fashion. It's completely illogical and that was the point I am trying to make.

Oh sorry, I was just going by some of your previous posts where you had a track record of basically undermining Misty while playing up Dawn. Sorry about that.

Anyway, the Ash/Misty dynamic was different. They had better chemistry (actually the best chemistry) and diverse interactions and their arguments were more of an endearing back-and-forth snarking that was way more unique than Iris just calling Ash a kid and Ash basically ignoring it.

132 had a couple of nice posts in the previous posts that more or less sum it up.

I might be a Dawn fan but I didn't dismiss Iris like a lot of Misty fans initially did to May. I gave Iris a chance and found her to be a good character. I just wish other people would too instead of dismissing her for no good reason.

I think Iris is underrated due to all the flak she gets. She wasn't bad, but she was annoying as hell at times too.

 

[CyberCubed]

I think it is safe to say that in the west, Misty is the most beloved Pokegirl while Iris is the most disliked.

Where is this coming from? Misty stayed gone after Johto for a reason.

This despite the fact that they both share similar character traits and goals. A lot of the reasons people hate Iris are things that Misty did a lot worse. My question is why? How does this make any sense? It would be like if I said I like Dawn because she's into fashion but I hate Serena because she's into fashion. It's completely illogical and that was the point I am trying to make.

I think its because Misty was around when Ash actually was a rookie and her critcism of him made sense at that time. Iris came off the heels of the DP series where Ash was at his absolute best. A poor rival like Trip who paled in comparison to Paul and Iris made all the DP fans angry at Ash's regression.

I might be a Dawn fan but I didn't dismiss Iris like a lot of Misty fans initially did to May. I gave Iris a chance and found her to be a good character. I just wish other people would too instead of dismissing her for no good reason.

I'm pretty certain all the people who didn't care for Iris didn't dislike her because she came after Dawn. They were judging her by her own character.

Likewise there are actually a lot of people who liked Iris over Dawn, but that's rarer.

 

[OfCorsola]

It's just that Iris's character wasn't enjoyable. She caused a headache, she didn't have an interesting background character, and wake was too bossy.

People don't dislike iris just because they are Misty fan. Your argument is invalid.
Hilda seems to be interesting even when she's the character you play against.

I also rather have had Dawn stay with Ash and Brock stay too like they had Misty stay for two regions. It's way better than having Iris.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

It's just that Iris's character wasn't enjoyable. She caused a headache, she didn't have an interesting background character, and wake was too bossy.

People don't dislike iris just because they are Misty fan. Your argument is invalid.
Hilda seems to be interesting even when she's the character you play against.

I also rather have had Dawn stay with Ash and Brock stay too like they had Misty stay for two regions. It's way better than having Iris.

I'm glad that didn't actually happen though, I doubt the writers would have let her win the Grand Festival on screen and I don't want to see her regress in it like Ash or not progress at all.

 

[CyberCubed]

I'm glad that didn't actually happen though, I doubt the writers would have let her win the Grand Festival on screen and I don't want to see her regress in it like Ash or not progress at all.

There were no Contests in Unova anyway, so Dawn would have had nothing to do.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

There were no Contests in Unova anyway, so Dawn would have had nothing to do.

That's true too, we saw pretty much what would happen during her guest appearance in BW since there were no contests when she returned.

 

[Nodame]

This despite the fact that they both share similar character traits and goals. A lot of the reasons people hate Iris are things that Misty did a lot worse. My question is why? How does this make any sense?

Relax. Whether someone's opinion is valid or not is also a matter of opinion. You think Iris is better, but others find her annoying. And yes there are similarities between the two, but each felt like their own characters to me. Misty is not Iris. I think to myself, why does "Misty fans" really matters to you? you keep bringing them up in every post omg.

 

[OfCorsola]

There were no Contests in Unova anyway, so Dawn would have had nothing to do.

Aha! But did kanto have any contests? Iris and Cilan only had 147 episodes anyways..I could see them using Dawn. I just got sick of Brock's character they treated him horribly.

 

[chalkus]

There were no Contests in Unova anyway, so Dawn would have had nothing to do.

As much as I would have liked to see Dawn remain a main character, I think she was better off not being there for that reason alone. Still would have liked to see Brock there, though.

Relax. Whether someone's opinion is valid or not is also a matter of opinion. You think Iris is better, but others find her annoying. And yes there are similarities between the two, but each felt like their own characters to me. Misty is not Iris. I think to myself, why does "Misty fans" really matters to you? you keep bringing them up in every post omg

Relax? Who's upset? Of course there are people who don't like Iris. I am just trying to understand how Iris could be a worse character than someone with no distinct character traits at all or how BW could have been better because of it. As far as I am concerned, there is absolutely nothing about Pokemon to get mad about.

 

[Grei]

Probably because she wasn't named Hilary like she should have been

 

[OfCorsola]

As much as I would have liked to see Dawn remain a main character, I think she was better off not being there for that reason alone. Still would have liked to see Brock there, though.


Relax? Who's upset? Of course there are people who don't like Iris. I am just trying to understand how Iris could be a worse character than someone with no distinct character traits at all or how BW could have been better because of it. As far as I am concerned, there is absolutely nothing about Pokemon to get mad about.

Um, I would love to have Brock if he wasn't treated as a side character.
Maybe Dawn shouldn't have stayed, because her BW appearance was too rushed. I would like for her to have a do-over in XY

Probably because she wasn't named Hilary like she should have been

She was given the name Hilda, because Touko means fight in japanese, so Hilda means fight in english.

 

[CyberCubed]

Aha! But did kanto have any contests? Iris and Cilan only had 147 episodes anyways..I could see them using Dawn. I just got sick of Brock's character they treated him horribly.

Battle Frontier saga was also advertising Emerald version, where the Frontier Brains were from. Contests was in the Emerald game, so having them return for Kanto even though they weren't in FR/LG made sense.

And as said, what would May have done for another saga if there were no Contests? I actually liked that May got two Contest arcs over Dawn's one Contest arc, even if May's BF Contests were rushed because they had less time to focus on them.

 

[OfCorsola]

Battle Frontier saga was also advertising Emerald version, where the Frontier Brains were from. Contests was in the Emerald game, so having them return for Kanto even though they weren't in FR/LG made sense.

And as said, what would May have done for another saga if there were no Contests? I actually liked that May got two Contest arcs over Dawn's one Contest arc, even if May's BF Contests were rushed because they had less time to focus on them.

Well, what about Platinum Games?
Even though I think Dawn still had really great coordination skills, I always enjoyed May better. Buut, this is getting off topic.

Speaking of contests, I think if Unova had contests Hilda would be in the anime as a coordinator.

 

[Nodame]

Relax? Who's upset? Of course there are people who don't like Iris. I am just trying to understand how Iris could be a worse character than someone with no distinct character traits at all or how BW could have been better because of it. As far as I am concerned, there is absolutely nothing about Pokemon to get mad about.

I personally find the "little kid" phrase bit rather annoying, they want to add a twist or something funny to her character but they didn't do it right with Iris. Though I think it's pretty neat she can swing from vines and stuff and she seems to have a sense of adventure. Though she isn't my favourite but I don't think she's bad. That being said.

Also, I've noticed a lot of people prefer Hilda because they dislike Iris's design. That's ridiculous and unfair tbh ._.

 

[OfCorsola]

I just disliked the way iris was handled, and thought Hilbert and Hilbert could've made cool companions. Probably because of their manga counterpart xD

Anyways, if iris had her manga personality I would enjoy her, but she was just..wow..

 

[fawfulmark2]

Well, what about Platinum Games?
Even though I think Dawn still had really great coordination skills, I always enjoyed May better. Buut, this is getting off topic.

Speaking of contests, I think if Unova had contests Hilda would be in the anime as a coordinator.

Which also makes me wonder why they didn't introduce Rosa as wanting to become a PokeStar Studios actress.Also would have given them an excuse to bring back Sabrina(one of the most popular anime gym leaders) since she was an actress there.

Then again I guess B/W2 kinda hit them over the head out of nowhere since they had to shoehorn in the other Gym leaders, give Iris a power buff,and so forth.

 

[Platinum fan.]

I just disliked the way iris was handled, and thought Hilbert and Hilbert could've made cool companions. Probably because of their manga counterpart xD

Anyways, if iris had her manga personality I would enjoy her, but she was just..wow..

That doesn't mean they would have been that way in the anime. If you mean their Pokemon Adventures counterparts they would never had worked in this anime. Especially in Best Wishes. Hilbert would have to bow down to Ash's demands of main character and would easily lose his storyline. No Gyms for him, no storyline with N either, that would go to Ash. Hilda's storyline would probably be scrapped altogether because she can't leave the main cast because that would take screentime off Ash, which the writers don't know how to do. Their counterparts would be screwed in the anime, because they would be main characters stuck in a sidekick role.

Honestly I would love to know why people dislike Iris so much? I'm almost tempted to watch BW just to see what everyone's complaining about. When DP was airing several people hated Dawn for "stealing the show from Ash" I personally loved that about Dawn, but anyway, you would think Iris would be treated like a hero of going back to the sidekick female with no sidequest involving token collecting. But she's highly underrated. What did this poor girl do?

 

[OfCorsola]

That doesn't mean they would have been that way in the anime. If you mean their Pokemon Adventures counterparts they would never had worked in this anime. Especially in Best Wishes. Hilbert would have to bow down to Ash's demands of main character and would easily lose his storyline. No Gyms for him, no storyline with N either, that would go to Ash. Hilda's storyline would probably be scrapped altogether because she can't leave the main cast because that would take screentime off Ash, which the writers don't know how to do. Their counterparts would be screwed in the anime, because they would be main characters stuck in a sidekick role.

Honestly I would love to know why people dislike Iris so much? I'm almost tempted to watch BW just to see what everyone's complaining about. When DP was airing several people hated Dawn for "stealing the show from Ash" I personally loved that about Dawn, but anyway, you would think Iris would be treated like a hero of going back to the sidekick female with no sidequest involving token collecting. But she's highly underrated. What did this poor girl do?

Um, well that's what you believe? They could have had Hilbert as Ash's rival then. Since they are so similar, this could've been like Ash vs Ritchie. It would work out smoothly. Plus Iris had a highly enjoyable personality in the manga.

I said my points on why I disliked Iris. Dawn didn't steal screen time from Ash. She was just handled properly, she had great techniques, humor, and she had nice development. Agreed, I enjoyed Dawn too.