Why do I feel so much hate towards the animé?

[Ryu Taylor]

I do pity these kids though who have to sit through XY/SM only to hear elevator music.

Even if that was what they heard (and news flash: it isn't, even though it is definitely quieter than the JP music), I doubt they need your pity.

Breaking status quo means that things change

And that's what happened. Instead of traveling all over the place for 100% of the saga, now that's only happening for 40% of it give or take. The Pokemon of this saga got more characterization than any other saga. And overall, this saga is more slice-of-life than adventure. And I have no problem with that, especially after how shonen XY went.

Oh, and Pokemon really aren't obligated to fight. If the show never has Shaymin battle, I'd be fine with that. It's nice to see Pokemon be more than just battlers.

Coincidentally, that's also one of the best aspects of the Detective Pikachu movie.

 

[Sham]

Even if that was what they heard (and news flash: it isn't, even though it is definitely quieter than the JP music), I doubt they need your pity.

You need to calm down. The dub isn’t your third cousin, you don’t have to run to it’s defense every time someone doesn’t like or agree it’s the best.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

And that's what happened.

Ah, you're using the status quo of the entire anime

I was using it in the context of just SM

Oh, and Pokemon really aren't obligated to fight.

That's been obvious since the anime started

However, having the pokémon do something would still be nice

Them just standing around smiling blankly isn't any better

 

[Ryu Taylor]

You need to calm down. The dub isn’t your third cousin, you don’t have to run to it’s defense every time someone doesn’t like or agree it’s the best.

It's not against the rules to do that any more than it is for people to come trying (and failing) to defend the JP version from me.

Besides, when you bring its actual target audience into the picture--something even I've never done any time I ever criticized the JP version--, it's personal.

 

[AznKei]

Status quo is the name of OLM's (more like Status QuOLM) game.

One reason I like SM so much is that it did actually break from status quo moreso than any other saga.

We surely had a different definition of status quo. To me, status quo means the concepts of having Ash failing the leagues, going into another region with only Pikachu, while releasing or dumping his regional Pokemons at Oak's lab, the companions/classmates stopping appearing after their regional series except some cameos and them having less spotlights than Ash.

 

[Doppelgänger]

Nowadays, I look at it as one of those long running 80s-esque cartoons that somehow just refuses to end, kind of like Teen Titans Go.

Most of those '80s era shows did end, and they did so organically.

If you want to look at a bloated, undead monstrosity, look no further than One Piece. One Piece continues to exist because Shueisha will go bankrupt if it's allowed to end. It nearly did until My Hero Academia debut.

What I'm saying is, Pokemon is not like that. Or rather, it's not like that anymore. The anime actually has more flexibility to pursue original ideas compared to "Doraemon" or "GeGeGe no Kitarou".

 

[SBaby]

What I'm saying is, Pokemon is not like that. Or rather, it's not like that anymore. The anime actually has more flexibility to pursue original ideas compared to "Doraemon" or "GeGeGe no Kitarou".

Then why do the characters in those animes get more long term development than Ash (Nobita actually had more character growth in Doraemon than Ash has had collectively in the entire Pokémon anime)? And also, there are 80s era cartoons that are still around in some capacity or another. But again, the point I was making is that even in those, the main characters got more development than they allow Ash to have in Pokémon.

As for the 'flexibility to pursue original ideas', that's what everyone says at first. But eventually you come to realize that most of what you see in the anime is the same recycled plotlines they've had since the first two Regions, just with different names.

 

[Leonhart]

As for the 'flexibility to pursue original ideas', that's what everyone says at first. But eventually you come to realize that most of what you see in the anime is the same recycled plotlines they've had since the first two Regions, just with different names.

I agree on this, because it's been a recurring excuse even during the current saga. While I'll admit that SM has certainly changed a few things around by focusing more on slice-of-life moments and introduced tropes that weren't that common in this anime before, it still typically clings to the status quo and is only flexible when it comes to breaking minor patterns from the past.

 

[Doppelgänger]

Then why do the characters in those animes get more long term development than Ash (Nobita actually had more character growth in Doraemon than Ash has had collectively in the entire Pokémon anime)?

Because those shows actually ended. They then get rebooted once per decade using the same storylines from the source work.

If you hate "formula" or "status quo", imagine a world where OS is rebooted every 4-5 years like it's a superhero origins movie.

 

[satopi]

There’s only been one, technically two main characters that existed from beginning to present which is Ash and Pikachu. Everyone else received their character story and development and departed. (And it would’ve been the TRio too had they not been so popular with their audience. It’s clear that the writers wanted to give them a good farewell yet faced backlash and have no choice but to keep them.) I still see Ash and Pikachu developing, as there is a clear difference between Ash and Pikachu from the first episode to how they are currently. Pokémon is a different show from these 80’s shows, it’s an unique case. The 80’s shows were based on manga, Pokémon is based on a game and it’s amazing how well they’ve made it their own throughout the years. And you guys are really not giving the anime the credit it deserves. Despite the anime having to promote the games, it still holds it’s own footing. Pokémon is a children’s anime based on a game to where writers would make it better yet have restrictions built on and not enough time considering that they can only keep the saga on for as long as it’s finished before the next game arrives and they’re developing the next saga with little information. You don’t think they want to make it better? And to compare it to Teen Titans GO!, a simple comedy show that ran for 5 years is laughably ignorant! Pokémon came a long way, it could’ve continued being a episodic cartoon that didn’t develop any characters but instead, fixed its own errors and at least tries to make itself better, experimenting with each saga to see what fits and what needs tweaking.

 

[DatsRight]

Oh, and Pokemon really aren't obligated to fight. If the show never has Shaymin battle, I'd be fine with that. It's nice to see Pokemon be more than just battlers.

I don't have a problem with non-battle teams specifically, but more how undeveloped they often end up being, and often still relying on low key battling like TR curb stomps to give them any involvement.

Shaymin doesn't have to battle, but it really needs more development than one limelight episode where it was mostly a damsel in distress.

 

[Leonhart]

I don't necessarily mind it when certain Pokemon don't battle that often. I mean Nyasu's one of my favorite Pokemon and he battles only once in a blue moon, yet it doesn't irk me because he does other things on the side. But with Pokemon like Shaymin, it hardly gets active in anything. So it's frustrating to see Mao with it given that she's mostly shown holding it most of the time like some plush doll.

 

[Emelie]

Kukui and Burnet can't even hold regular drink glasses

Most of the criticism I have heard from fans of the Japanese dub (like Dogasu for example) doesn't seem to revolve around making the show more appropriate for younger kids by censoring stuff like alcohol but rather how the English dub tried to censor cultural references to Japan.

Just look at the meme with the "jelly-filled donuts" which became so infamous that the official English sub of the Mewtwo remake movie referenced it. In hindsight even the creators of the anime think it was a little silly.

On the flip side I have actually seen some praise for some of the censorship. Take the bikini episodes from OS for example where the female characters were sexualized. I think Dogasu mentioned how it felt out of place, like a chapter of Electric Tale of Pikachu suddenly was adapted into the anime. So I think there are definitely legit (and justified) complaints towards the Japanese dub as well.

 

[Leonhart]

Most of the criticism I have heard from fans of the Japanese dub (like Dogasu for example) doesn't seem to revolve around making the show more appropriate for younger kids by censoring stuff like alcohol but rather how the English dub tried to censor cultural references to Japan.

I think that's a good distinction to have when it comes to criticizing the dub. I don't mind some of the dub's understandable edits like them removing questionable material, such as anything that might be considered sexual like the inflatable breast scene that I mentioned before or certain bits of dialogue like Ryuu's line in the same episode about him wishing that Kasumi was older so that they'd have a good time, but censoring Japanese foods like onigiri and calling them all kinds of different names was just ridiculous.

 

[Ryu Taylor]

So I think there are definitely legit (and justified) complaints towards the Japanese dub as well.

I've lived the past four years being well aware of this fact.

 

[SBaby]

Because those shows actually ended. They then get rebooted once per decade using the same storylines from the source work.

If you hate "formula" or "status quo", imagine a world where OS is rebooted every 4-5 years like it's a superhero origins movie.

That's not an excuse to ignore or disregard character development. You can have a long running series that has lasting main character development over the course of it. As it is, the longest any character development lasted in Pokémon (not counting Team-Up episodes) was two Gens (far less than one decade). And most of that involved at-the-time recurring characters (such as Gary), and not Ash.

I guess my question is why should we as an audience care about a series, which has a main character that the production team doesn't seem to care about?

 

[Doppelgänger]

That's not an excuse to ignore or disregard character development.

Ash was a rookie in Kanto and he's been a veteran ever since. He has surpassed Misty and Brock in strength, and he's mentored most of his friends/traveling companions beginning with AG. His last intentionally disobedient Pokemon was Charizard in OS.

As a Pokemon Trainer, there's no more room for him to grow except in power, accomplishment and esteem. That's why the focus of the series shifted to new Pokemon and new friends who can make these life discoveries for the first time.

 

[Leonhart]

I guess my question is why should we as an audience care about a series, which has a main character that the production team doesn't seem to care about?

I wouldn't say that they don't care about him, though. They've kept him around for two decades which implies that he's important to them even if just as a cash cow. Sure, they don't let him come close to achieving his goal because then they'd have to change the status quo, but they still give him more screen-time than any other character.

 

[SBaby]

Ash was a rookie in Kanto and he's been a veteran ever since. He has surpassed Misty and Brock in strength, and he's mentored most of his friends/traveling companions beginning with AG. His last intentionally disobedient Pokemon was Charizard in OS.

As a Pokemon Trainer, there's no more room for him to grow except in power, accomplishment and esteem. That's why the focus of the series shifted to new Pokemon and new friends who can make these life discoveries for the first time.

And that's why if they're concerned with him at all, they should take the next logical step in his development, which would be having him win a League. Instead, they slap him with a big 'reset' button every Region. And it gets tiresome to see.

 

[Deleted member 384931]

I mean comparing the Japanse dub to the English is one thing. The original thing is always better than the translated one. The Japanese one isn't perfect either.