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Why do so many people hate on Gen I enthusiasts?

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randomspot555

Well-Known Member
1. But these weren't fads. They managed to stay as an integral part of American popular culture. Just like Star Wars, you will NEVER see Star Wars decline or fade away. It has that staying power.

Do you see Mario on the nightly news? Regular SNL parodies of Zelda? Family Guy making it into the news unless they do something particularly controversial.

No, you don't. They are roughly the same general awareness as Pokemon.

Sounds like you're holding a huge double standard just to justify your false premise that Pokemon has somehow "fallen".

The unique thing about Pokemon, at least in America, is it SUSTAINED popularity after being a fad. Whereas most fads such as Pet Rocks and POGS fade into obscurity, Pokemon stayed as a mainstream staple of a large video game producer. And that "fad" status never really left Japan.

2. Let's just say that people aren't lining up in front of Toysrus, Target, or Wal Mart to get the latest Pokemon game anymore.

People no longer have to get to physical stores anymore to obtain games. What's your point?

It is Nintendo's second most popular franchise, but all that money and popularity came from Red, Blue, Gold, and Silver.

And...you know, all the subsequent games, moves, mangas, DVDs, etc... they produced after that.

And that's a fact: Red and Blue sold 24 million copies, Gold and Silver sold 23 million copies, while Black and White only sold 14 million.

And again, your point? The handheld market has changed since 1999.

3. I agree, I'm still surprised it's on air. But that doesn't change the fact that ratings have gone down majorly since the Johto series.

And again, what's your point? If your point is "lol Pokemon is failing", that only makes sense if you ignore every fact such as the changing in children's programming.

4. But there's nothing wrong with holding on to nostalgia.

I didn't say there wasn't.

5. There's a huge difference. Gen I must be respected, it started the series, and without it, there would be NO Pokemon. Gen 5 is simply an extension of the series that wasn't necessary to it's development. You can like any generation, and even prefer a generation over Gen I, but you must have a deep respect for it, without it, you wouldn't be able to enjoy the others.

So Gen I has to be respected, but not anything else?

Sounds like a huge double standard to me.

Depending on how old you are, in the late 90's, you'll remember that at the height of the Pokemon craze, something about it was on the evening news every night. It was VERY popular at one point between 1998-1999.

lol no it wasn't.

And I'm not talking about kids when I'm asking about Chimchar and Snivy, of course they'd know it, they grew up with it. I'm talking about people my age and up (college aged students and up, in particular actual adults). The vast majority of them are not going to know who those Pokemon are, or if they're even Pokemon, for that matter. But if you asked them who Pikachu, Charizard, and Meowth are, they will know.

Anecdotal and meaningless. I know a lot of college aged gamers who play Gen 4 and Gen 5 games. I'm not going to pretend that is something shared among the milliosn of 20 something year olds, but you shouldn't do the same with your own personal experiences.

Also, hate to break it to ya, champ: But EVs and IVs have been around since Gen I.

I'd like you to point to a single person who has actually "disrespected Gen I". I don't see why Gen I should be above being discussed and criticized,because trust me, there's no shortage of people who'll go on and on on how they hate Gen 5.
 

Specialbeamcanon

SUCH PERFECTION
It's really an opinion of what you grew up with, and what your life experiences were. I think the story in Gen I was simpler, just a boy and his starter with a dream of becoming the Champion. Long before the era of berries, contests, natures, genders, EV's, IV's, and all that other junk (although berries in GSC were pretty decent).
EVs and IVs also existed in gen 1 actually. EVs were called the Stat Experience or Stat Exp. But after that gen they changed the name to the "Effort Values" or EVs. But it probably doesn't matter anyway since kids during that era prefered to play the game for fun and not look at the so called "complicated" mechanics.
 
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randomspot555

Well-Known Member
EVs and IVs also existed in gen 1 actually. EVs were called the Stat Experience or Stat Exp. But after that gen they changed the name to the "Effort Values" or EVs. But it doesn't matter anyway since kids during that era prefered to play the game for fun and not look at the mechanics.

The irony is the game was WAY more complicated and grindy back in Gen I, and Gen 4 and ESPECIALLY Gen 5 have gone to great lengths to make the inner game mechanics EASIER to access for those who choose to do it. But every time GF even somewhat subtly throws game mechanic geeks a bone, people freak out like "WHAT IS THIS IN MY POKEMONZ????"
 

gliscor&yanmega

Well-Known Member
My whole message is simply this: everyone grew up at different times, and had different life experiences with Pokemon. Some like me prefer Gen I and II, others like III, IV, etc.
To each their own, I have no problem with that at all. My only problem is when fans disrespect Gen I, and its fans. There's absolutely no reason to do that, it is the "Father of our Series", and we all must respect that.

Now I know that there are some really ignorant genwunners that only believe that there are 151 Pokemon and that anything else stinks. Those people REALLY get on my nerves, since I like the Johto series as well (as shown in my avatar), and the Pokemon series needed to grow, the Pokegear and day/night features were awesome (I just think that things got out of hand in the following gens, especially in Gen IV; Gen V is starting to bring the games back to the basics, but it's still a long shot). People can't group Genwunners into one group; we're not all like that.

Frankly, I don't see what being the start of a franchise matters. I personally, am not going to "respect" a game ever, regardless of if it started something or not. It's a game, it's there to play and enjoy, not respect and whatever.

I don't see how things got out of hand, it's essentially the same game as R/B/G/Y, simply improved on in pretty much all aspects of the games as things have changed since then. There has been a lot of changes, but it's the same basic game it's always been, beat Gym Leaders, beat villains, beat Elite Four, beat Champion, do all that by training Pokemon.
 

char_char

Beginning Trainer
You all keep arguing over "the game". I think any fan of the series would agree that the games have gotten better, no doubt.

This argument wont ever end because you had to be 7-12 years old between 98-00 to actually understand why some people would consider gen 1
the only good gen (that's their opinion).

The popularity of Pokemon at that time was insane...utterly insane (I'm 23 with a child of my own now) and I still play the games on my down time. Why? Because of Gen 1. It wasn't just about the game, the TCG was as popular if not more (haven't bought any since Neo) than the game, and the cartoon was probably the #1 cartoon of '99 (haven't watched it since '99).

All the generations of the series are great, but none of them will have the social impact/exposure that the initial one had...thus why more people than not will say the "real" Pokemon are the first 151 (beacuse that's probably all they know).
 

gliscor&yanmega

Well-Known Member
You all keep arguing over "the game". I think any fan of the series would agree that the games have gotten better, no doubt.

This argument wont ever end because you had to be 7-12 years old between 98-00 to actually understand why some people would consider gen 1
the only good gen (that's their opinion).

The popularity of Pokemon at that time was insane...utterly insane (I'm 23 with a child of my own now) and I still play the games on my down time. Why? Because of Gen 1. It wasn't just about the game, the TCG was as popular if not more (haven't bought any since Neo) than the game, and the cartoon was probably the #1 cartoon of '99 (haven't watched it since '99).

All the generations of the series are great, but none of them will have the social impact/exposure that the initial one had...thus why more people than not will say the "real" Pokemon are the first 151 (beacuse that's probably all they know).

I was around 5-7 during that time, and I still don't understand why people are arrogant with their opinions. I have no issue with people preferring one generation over another, I do have a problem with people bashing or complaining, or trying to state a fact that isn't a fact about a generation, when in reality, they simply don't like it and should just accept the fact that just because you don't like it doesn't make the generation bad in any way or that the franchise isn't what it use to be.

Regardless if Pokemon is as popular as it was when it first started, that doesn't matter, what matters is, Pokemon is still popular to this day, and a ton of people still play the games, watch the anime, play the card game, buy the toys and all that.

It has nothing to do with Pokemon that it's not as focused as it was when it first started, that's how things are for pretty much everything, things usual are more popular when they first start off, sometimes things don't kick off until a little latter, sometimes it never kicks off and fails quickly, Pokemon kicked off from the start, and is still going strong.

Pokemon has always been popular, a drop in popular or not simply doesn't matter as it's still very popular.
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
If popularity is a metric to measure what is the best in terms of quality, then McDonalds must serve the most amazing and awesomely cooked cuisine in the world. KFC has the best chicken. Daytime soaps enjoy absolutely HUGE ratings compared to most television programming. Romance novels are by far the biggest selling genre as far as books go, so those must be the most well written, thrilling works of written art out there.
 

char_char

Beginning Trainer
I understand where you two are coming from completely and agree (I tried watching the cartoon with my daughter, but somethings you just grow out of).

I felt the Gen 5 games were a breath of fresh air and the best (story-wise) in the series/ gave me that "new" feeling.

What I was trying to illustrate is why some people would consider the first generation of the series the best (I'm not talking about members on this forum, just casual Pokemon fans).
 

Darth Revan

Coming Out!
"WHAT IS THIS IN MY POKEMONZ????"
So your calling Gen 1 enthusiasts "Retards"? i find that absurd. Yes i find Gen 1 the best but i play all the others. But i can agree with what some of Michael is saying.
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
So your calling Gen 1 enthusiasts "Retards"?

Considering the post you quoted wasn't specifically about Gen I enthusiasts (much broader, people freaking out over game mechanics being recognized) and I never used the term "retard" (and I never would, it is an incredibly offensive term), no.

Please read my posts before responding to them and don't just cherry pick quotes to make me look bad.
 

Trainer Michael

Pokemon Champion
You all keep arguing over "the game". I think any fan of the series would agree that the games have gotten better, no doubt.

This argument wont ever end because you had to be 7-12 years old between 98-00 to actually understand why some people would consider gen 1
the only good gen (that's their opinion).

The popularity of Pokemon at that time was insane...utterly insane (I'm 23 with a child of my own now) and I still play the games on my down time. Why? Because of Gen 1. It wasn't just about the game, the TCG was as popular if not more (haven't bought any since Neo) than the game, and the cartoon was probably the #1 cartoon of '99 (haven't watched it since '99).

All the generations of the series are great, but none of them will have the social impact/exposure that the initial one had...thus why more people than not will say the "real" Pokemon are the first 151 (beacuse that's probably all they know).

I couldn't have said it better myself!

Pokemon literally took the nation by storm back in 1999, and only people of a certain age will remember that (which is why I said what I said about kids not talking trash about Gen I when they weren't even old enough to remember it). The trading card game was huge, and it was probably the second most popular thing about Pokemon at that time (after the games).
Those 151 definitely did have the most social impact and exposure.


Originally Posted by randomspot555

Do you see Mario on the nightly news? Regular SNL parodies of Zelda? Family Guy making it into the news unless they do something particularly controversial.

No, you don't. They are roughly the same general awareness as Pokemon.

Sounds like you're holding a huge double standard just to justify your false premise that Pokemon has somehow "fallen".

The unique thing about Pokemon, at least in America, is it SUSTAINED popularity after being a fad. Whereas most fads such as Pet Rocks and POGS fade into obscurity, Pokemon stayed as a mainstream staple of a large video game producer. And that "fad" status never really left Japan.

Yes. Mario and Zelda are still very much popular. They managed to keep the franchise fresh and fun, something that Pokemon only did recently with Gen 5.


People no longer have to get to physical stores anymore to obtain games. What's your point?

That has nothing to do with it. When a new toy debuts, people still line up. Do you remember the Zhu Zhu Pets craze back in '09? People were lining up in droves to get that. They could have shopped online, but they went to the stores. Same with games, people still line up for them.


And...you know, all the subsequent games, moves, mangas, DVDs, etc... they produced after that.

I agree, but those four games really brought in a ton of money.


And again, your point? The handheld market has changed since 1999.

Irrelevant. New Super Mario Bros. sold 29 million copies for the DS. Pokemon has never gotten that crazy momentum ever since the 90s.


And again, what's your point? If your point is "lol Pokemon is failing", that only makes sense if you ignore every fact such as the changing in children's programming.

My point is that Pokemon was at its height (where the anime was concerned) from 1998 to 2002. After that, it declined greatly in ratings.



So Gen I has to be respected, but not anything else?

Sounds like a huge double standard to me.

No, not at all. The originals in everything must always be respected.

It's just like the Star Wars fans who say the trilogy sucks (and don't even get me started on that, my passion for the trilogy is even greater than my passion for Gen I). Those folks drive me insane! There is a certain respect that must be paid to Gen I, as I've said ten times before, without it, there would be NO Pokemon.


lol no it wasn't.

Umm, yes, it was. My parents were news junkies, so news was always on in our house 24/7 when I was in elementary school. Trust me, back in 98-99, there were TONS of news reports on all networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, etc.) about the Pokemon craze.

Anecdotal and meaningless. I know a lot of college aged gamers who play Gen 4 and Gen 5 games. I'm not going to pretend that is something shared among the milliosn of 20 something year olds, but you shouldn't do the same with your own personal experiences.

Also, hate to break it to ya, champ: But EVs and IVs have been around since Gen I.

I'd like you to point to a single person who has actually "disrespected Gen I". I don't see why Gen I should be above being discussed and criticized,because trust me, there's no shortage of people who'll go on and on on how they hate Gen 5.

I'm not saying that there aren't college students that don't play Gens 4 and 5. But if you ask them what their all time favorite gen is, a ton of them will say Gen I.

I know that EV's and IV's have been around since Gen I; no one cared about them back then.

So many people all over the place have disrespected Gen I, especially younger fans.
 
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Darth Revan

Coming Out!

Fugazy

DanHarmonForEver
I love Gen 1, it's what I was raised on; my first introduction to Pokemon. I'm more of a Gen 2 and 3 fan than I am Gen 1. When my friends say other Gens suck because there are only 151 Pokemon I'm like "seriously?!"
 

Nyarlathotep

Eldritch Abomination
I like gen 1 too, but I don't think it is the best.
Actually, it is one of the bests. In my opinion, the odd numbered generations were the most interesting: I, III and V.

IV was okay, but II was bad
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
Does this classify as a genwunner or a troll?

Either way, here is the reason why genwunners aren't respected.

It's like they really go through a manic depression and can't figure out that they can play the older games.
 

Seiryu

Resident dragon
Pokemon has always been popular, a drop in popular or not simply doesn't matter as it's still very popular.

Mm. And I'd argue in fact that in spite of the drop in popularity during Gen 3, the games are far, far more popular nowadays than they were even during the "fad" days.

You said you weren't sure about the sales figures for Black/White, correct? I'm not completely sure about them myself, admittedly, but I do remember there being a pretty big deal about the number of pre-orders: about two million in Japan alone, some double that for worldwide, I believe. Meaning, by a few weeks following the worldwide release, there were several million game sales; in an industry where lifetime sales breaking a few hundred thousand is generally considered a success, I'd say that's...I was gonna say "impressive," but that's understating things a bit. "Phenomenal" is more like it; these were record-breaking sales numbers (certainly a hell of a lot more than just "some"). Go ahead and compare it to the first-year sales of Gold/Silver; I can guarantee that the Gen 5 sales are higher.
(Pre-post edit: Apparently, Japan's 2010 sales for BW were just shy of 5 million, while US sales in March-April 2011 numbered just shy of 2.5 million. Global sales are right around 15 million right now; considering when they came out, this makes them the fastest-selling games not only on the DS, to say nothing of previous handhelds, but also in the entire franchise. RBG may yet have more sales overall, but that's more due to having a twelve- to fourteen-year head start than anything. And remember, even New Super Mario Bros. came out in 2006.)

Oh, sure, one could argue that there was a lot more general merchandising back then. I'm not about to dispute that; I myself remember the silly Lucky-Charms-ripoff breakfast cereal ('twas the first time I ever saw Hoothoot!). But as a rebuttal, I'd say look at the other parts of the franchise; the card game is still going strong, the show is stronger than ever (at least in Japan, and as said, it's doing extremely well in the US as well, all things considered), and perhaps most importantly, there are loads more spin-off games--and not just games like Snap or Puzzle League that were made to make a quick buck on something at the height of its fad status, but games that can function on their own as being high-quality games and don't require any piggybacking off a fad to create a perceived boost in quality among the fans. I'm talking about games like Colosseum and Gale of Darkness, the Mystery Dungeon games, the Ranger games, and Pokemon Conquest. Hell, just look at the main site's side bar and see how many games are listed under Gen 4 or 5 compared to Gen 1 or 2!

Point is, how well something does as a fad isn't the greatest measure of popularity in the long term. People will buy literally anything if they're led to think it's cool enough. Rather, a better measure of popularity is how well it does once it's no longer a fad. Pokemon left the immediate collective consciousness around the early 2000s like it was said; this really cannot be denied, what with the lull that happened during Gen 3. However, I agree that it was still far from being unpopular even then, because "unpopular" Pokemon is still mega-popular by pretty much every other standard out there, and rather than being a sign of any kind of fall, it was more a sign of transition, from the immediate, short-term collective consciousness to society's decidedly more long-term collective subconscious--less Pogs and anime, more Simpsons and Mario.

Personally? I was a child of the nineties. I was precisely eleven and a half years old when I first played my Red version, and I'm turning twenty-five next month. Not gonna lie, the first two generations were an important part of my early- to mid-teenage years, and I played the hell out of them. And because of that, I'll admit, I cherish them. But you know what? They're not my favorite; that's a tossup between Gens 3 and 5. In fact, the first two gens are by far my overall least favorite, and I've some fairly controversial opinions to go along with that. Not gonna go into particulars here for the sake of brevity and a semblance of keeping things on-topic, but the gist of it is that I honestly think that, from a purely objective standpoint, Red/Blue/Green/Yellow are, well, bad games, and Gold/Silver/Crystal are hovering somewhere around mediocre. I still cherish them thanks to the effect they had on me while I was growing up, but I cannot see myself going back and playing (much less enjoying) them, especially not since we have remakes, and the fact is that I simply treasure the newer things, like the numerous positive enhancements to the core gameplay, the evolution (hardy har) of the art style and general design aesthetic, and the much wider variety of game genres to choose from, far more.

In spite of my own opinions on the old Gameboy games themselves, though, I don't have any particular issues with people who prefer them. Opinions are awesome! I love expressing my own opinion, so it'd be hypocritical of me to hate other people for doing the same, and besides, contrasting opinions form the core of most truly excellent discussions. The problem is with that extremely vocal minority that, in addition to relying on the same tired, flimsy talking points and double standards, generally lack any sort of civility or desire to hear the opinions of anyone other than themselves. They tend to be the ones to throw the first punch, so to speak. It's the difference between regular fans and fanboys, essentially.

And last, but not least:

char_char said:
"the game"

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
 

Trainer Michael

Pokemon Champion
Does this classify as a genwunner or a troll?

Either way, here is the reason why genwunners aren't respected.

It's like they really go through a manic depression and can't figure out that they can play the older games.

I was just going to talk about him, lol.

Yeah, he's what you would call a bona-fide Genwunner (actually a more extremist member of our movement, lol). I agree with some of what he says, but when he starts to diss Johto, I tune out. Not all Genwunners are like this; most of us like Gen II and some of us even like Gen III.
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
Does this classify as a genwunner or a troll?

I classify him as a guy who wrote a song based on the general knowledge of Pokemon so as to have mass appeal to people on YouTube. Nothing more, nothing less.

I still find it lol that some people are saying Pokemon has "fallen" despite being Nintendo's second most successful franchise, appearances in non-Pokemon series (Smash Bros), yearly battling tournaments in multiple cities across the world (and a lot of community organized tournaments for both the games and the cards), an anime that for the first time in years got a [limited]theatrical run, and Pokemon events are being held more often than ever.

If anything, Pokemon is on another rise. It isn't going to get the "fad" status because, well, that isn't how things work. New things get fad, not old staples.

But it is certainly experiencing a resurge in popularity. Zekrom was even in last year's Thanksgiving parade!
 
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Trainer Michael

Pokemon Champion
But it is certainly experiencing a resurge in popularity. Zekrom was even in last year's Thanksgiving parade!

If there's one thing I agree with you with, it's that Pokemon is experiencing a VERY unusual comeback. Not to the height where it was years back, but nonetheless, it is coming back. Maybe because Gen 5 brought it back to the basics (at least in my opinion). I'm actually planning on getting a Gen 5 game later this year (probably B&W 2). I haven't been the biggest fan of the later gens, but, I must admit, Zekrom and Reshiram look really choice. :)
 
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