RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
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Why do you think switching protagonists will not make the show better?
- Thread starter WaterTypeStarter
- Start date
WaterTypeStarter
Well-Known Member
Would not be surprised if the hijacking of this thread causes it to get locked. I tried to tell people to stop and stay on topic but they won't listen.
Morax
King of heroes
That sceptile was just weak.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Well, what are the chances they completely copy and paste Ash's and Pikachu's personalities onto another replacement?
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
Based on the expectations in this thread, very high
KukuiFanatic501
Well-Known Member
^This.
The only reasonable way you could probably replace Ash (still keeping him tied into the series in some fashion obviously) without causing too much backlash is making it either his son/daughter or some novice trainer that Ash took under his wing post-champion time.
I would find it a lot more bearable to take a new MC who's still Ash in some way for either being his student or, you know, in his family.
KukuiFanatic501
Well-Known Member
Short little head canon I made up once before on that actually:
After Ash becomes a champion / world champion and gets nuked as the main character finally, he becomes the most powerful trainer that everyone in his generation and the following generation admires (Naruto, but Pokemon style). Then we have a time skip into the future, where Ash still remains the strongest champion and he and all his friends are adults. He settles down with someone to become his wife (who's obviously going to remain nameless for obvious reasons) and has 2 children who become the new dual protagonists of the anime. One son and one daughter.
Both admire their father for being the strongest trainer and become inspired to become trainers themselves to one day take his spot as the champion. When both become old enough to become trainers, Ash and their mother give them their own starters. 2 Pichus bred from Ash's Pikachu (yup I said it, Pikachu gets kids too) that inherit Ash and Pikachu's legacy.
Ash's son and daughter see each other as rivals, both of whom get endorsed by Ash to become trainers, but walk down completely opposite paths to find their own way of becoming the strongest. And along the way, they meet new rivals, friends and companions of old on their new Pokemon journey.
After Ash becomes a champion / world champion and gets nuked as the main character finally, he becomes the most powerful trainer that everyone in his generation and the following generation admires (Naruto, but Pokemon style). Then we have a time skip into the future, where Ash still remains the strongest champion and he and all his friends are adults. He settles down with someone to become his wife (who's obviously going to remain nameless for obvious reasons) and has 2 children who become the new dual protagonists of the anime. One son and one daughter.
Both admire their father for being the strongest trainer and become inspired to become trainers themselves to one day take his spot as the champion. When both become old enough to become trainers, Ash and their mother give them their own starters. 2 Pichus bred from Ash's Pikachu (yup I said it, Pikachu gets kids too) that inherit Ash and Pikachu's legacy.
Ash's son and daughter see each other as rivals, both of whom get endorsed by Ash to become trainers, but walk down completely opposite paths to find their own way of becoming the strongest. And along the way, they meet new rivals, friends and companions of old on their new Pokemon journey.
KukuiFanatic501
Well-Known Member
Wasn't there one character in the D/P anime that had a Pikachu when she was a girl but then when she became an old woman, it was a Raichu?
I don't remember the episode name but it was the one where Ash lended her his Pikachu for the day.
I don't remember the episode name but it was the one where Ash lended her his Pikachu for the day.
Morax
King of heroes
So rats outlive humans? Damn
Mew29240
Well-Known Member
There was a blue-eyed surfing PIkachu named Puka in the Kanto filler episode "Pi-Kahuna." Bulbapedia has it that it's been twenty years since its trainer met it. Puka's visibly older with wrinkles under its eyes in the present day but it's still around, so Pikachu can probably live at least as long.
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KukuiFanatic501
Well-Known Member
Theres also the fact that Ash's Pikachu has been through a lot more **** than any average Pikachu has been and has been able to live to tell about it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Pikachu lived through Ash being 90 (like that'd ever happen but ya know).
I wouldn't be surprised if Pikachu lived through Ash being 90 (like that'd ever happen but ya know).
Ash is still far from his goal. While being the Pokemon Master is a very vague goal, let us simply assume he wants to be the strongest trainer in Pokemon Battles. The series has always shown Elite four trainer/ Regional Champions to be far above Ash's skill. While we have seen Ash advance over the years, the trajectory is not always upwards. Ash probably peaked in Kalos as his Greninja for the first time was fighting evenly with an Elite four tier pokemon in a serious battle and it was strong enough to even startle a regional champion's ace pokemon for a second. And then in Alola, while Ash did win a regional league which was great, it never really felt as that big of a jump in accomplishments considering Ash's feats in Kalos.
Like even now, despite Ash being really skilled trainer and having a very high pwc rank, he still seems far from that true elite trainer status. The perfect example would be becoming someone like Cynthia and being able to do what she did against Paul. Like if you look at a lot of other anime like OG Beyblade, Bakugan, Dragon Ball etc, we see the protagonist reach that top tier rank they aspired to achieve. But in case of Ash, he still seems far from it.
Once Ash gets Leon status and becomes that master class trainer who is capable on his own to maybe fight a box legendary like Mewtwo head on. Essentially reaching Red's level, I think people in general would be open to having a new protagonist.
They could time skip and still keep Ash in the anime like the worlds strongest Pokemon Trainer and have the new protagonist start off as a Pikachu inspired by Ash with a goal of beating him in battle. They could occasionally show episodes of trainers challenging Ash or maybe Ash helping the protagonist fight an evil team or maybe even giving the protagonist some advice etc.
Like even now, despite Ash being really skilled trainer and having a very high pwc rank, he still seems far from that true elite trainer status. The perfect example would be becoming someone like Cynthia and being able to do what she did against Paul. Like if you look at a lot of other anime like OG Beyblade, Bakugan, Dragon Ball etc, we see the protagonist reach that top tier rank they aspired to achieve. But in case of Ash, he still seems far from it.
Once Ash gets Leon status and becomes that master class trainer who is capable on his own to maybe fight a box legendary like Mewtwo head on. Essentially reaching Red's level, I think people in general would be open to having a new protagonist.
They could time skip and still keep Ash in the anime like the worlds strongest Pokemon Trainer and have the new protagonist start off as a Pikachu inspired by Ash with a goal of beating him in battle. They could occasionally show episodes of trainers challenging Ash or maybe Ash helping the protagonist fight an evil team or maybe even giving the protagonist some advice etc.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Leonhart
Imagineer
I'm not sure why that would be the assumed lifespan of a Pikachu when absolutely nothing has hinted at that. We've seen several members of the Pikachu line that were clearly older than that, such as Vincent's Pikachu and Denzi's Raichu for example. Satoshi doesn't age anyway, so the lifespan of his Pokemon seems like a moot point.Morax said:
KukuiFanatic501
Well-Known Member
In some amount of fairness on this point, Bakugan and Dragon Ball aren't really series where the protagonists are goal-oriented like Ash is. At least in Bakugans case (the originals btw, not Battle Planet).
Dan Kuso never really aimed to become the "best brawler" or anything but rather he became the best in the process of taking on all the enemies the series presented to him. That and all of the huge power ups the characters received that even surpasses Goku in the number of forms they take (haha). And even when reaching a new level, there was always a new enemy afterwards that was just as or even stronger, which cemented another new power up in order to one-up it.
On top of that, Bakugan's anime for the most part wasn't about simply getting better at the game, but defeating the enemies that came to cause chaos.
In case of OG Bakugan, Dan did aspire to be the best Brawler and there was a ranking system. The main purpose of the game was always to be the best as there was a ranking system. But then, Masquerade ended up coming in causing chaos.
It just coincidentally turned out, all the bad people except Shun, took up the top few ranks. This is why, it felt like Dan's rank simply advanced in the process of taking on all the enemies. If Masquerade hadn't recruited Klaus, Chan Lee etc, they would've been good people who Dan would've aspired to defeat to get up the ranks.
As for Dragon Ball, Goku has always aspired to be the strongest fighter in the (Planet, world, universe, multiverse etc), the scope of which has extended with the introduction of new characters. I definitely agree with the point about the Dragon Ball format, how Goku keeps reaching new heights but new enemies coming in who one up that new form or level of power Goku attained. But despite that, it still feels like Goku accomplished something concrete or relatively close to his ever-expanding dream.
Goku went from being a little boy weaker than Humans like Roshi, to the strongest mortal in his Universe at one point. This is some immense growth. Similarly, we see Dan go from being an average Brawler to one of the best in the world.
Ash on the other hand, has not experienced even half the level of success and growth compared to them. Ash doesn't have to be the strongest trainer in the world. But even if he's an elite four-tier trainer, that would still be a very big deal.
Shadao
Aim to be a Pokémon Master
Really? Last I recall, he won the Orange League, defeated the Battle Frontier Brains (and offered a position to be a Frontier Brain himself), climb his way up the ranks of the League which threw at him trainers who wield Mythicals and Legendaries, and trainers who wields the latest battle gimmicks and super modes, until he finally wins the Alola League and gets a reward of battling (and winning) the Royal Mask himself (and Tapu Koko). Oh a few couple of trophies.
This trainer was recognized by others on TV, whether it be Max sneering about Ash's place in the Top 8 or another trainer who remembers seeing Ash getting up to finals of the Kalos League, or Mairin mentioning Ash to Alain based on the news report in Lumoise City, or Ash recognized as the trainer who humbled Lt. Surge.
This is the same Ash who went from getting badges out of pity to putting a Champion's Pokémon on the edge. The same Ash who went from a nobody to someone that his friends and peers look up to.
It is noteworthy that nowadays, the series no longer reboots Ash and Pikachu's power level anymore. They just simply opt to make his opponents tougher and more strategic. And even then, it's rare to see Ash lose these days.
This trainer was recognized by others on TV, whether it be Max sneering about Ash's place in the Top 8 or another trainer who remembers seeing Ash getting up to finals of the Kalos League, or Mairin mentioning Ash to Alain based on the news report in Lumoise City, or Ash recognized as the trainer who humbled Lt. Surge.
This is the same Ash who went from getting badges out of pity to putting a Champion's Pokémon on the edge. The same Ash who went from a nobody to someone that his friends and peers look up to.
It is noteworthy that nowadays, the series no longer reboots Ash and Pikachu's power level anymore. They just simply opt to make his opponents tougher and more strategic. And even then, it's rare to see Ash lose these days.
The problem with the anime is even after 22 years of run, we are always waiting to see significant beneficial results of this never give up. Until now the anime only shown Wish like benefit (Orange, BW, XY, SM).
At first look, on the picture its seems a cool and impressive good deal, but when you look and think a second time for real, you notice you were completely scammed (like with Wish when the screenshot of the cool flat screen monitor or bike you bought was in fact a well manufactured few inches plastic toy photographed from very close or the useless object put on the screenshot background).
-orange final league has only one trainer to beat, the gym were not really battle
-BW: no comment
-Ash impressive winning strike in kalos mainly came from the fact that all his rivals were fresh rookies trainers, and when the skilled ones appeared (gym leader and Alain), ash rarely won at first try (viola, korrina, wulfric) or never won at all (alain)
-SM league was a joke tournament with less worldwide prestige than even unova junior cup, where even casual rookie trainer could rank in the top16.
KukuiFanatic501
Well-Known Member
No no, I agree that becoming the best at the game was the case for the characters in the beginning. Dan and Shun created the game in the first place after all. My thing on this though is that Bakugan's anime steered away from that once Masquerade came into the picture, as the series mainly steered away from playing the game to stopping world-threatening enemies for the remainder of the series. Well, for the most part anyway.
Masquerade came to make Hydranoid (and by extension, Naga) stronger by sending Bakugan to the doom dimension. Naga then came in to try conquering both worlds by capturing the 2 infinity and silent cores. Then came the Vestals in New Vestroia conquering and wanting to destroy Bakugan, which made the whole season steer away from that too. Gundalian Invaders and Mechtanium Surge somewhat went back to the whole "playing Bakugan and becoming the best at it" idea with Dan, Shun, Marucho and others playing Bakugan in Bakugan Interspace, but then they all steered away from it too when the antagonists came into those respective seasons and made it not about just playing the game anymore.