Morax
King of heroes
That's how these anime survive. Being original is risky. Using clichés is a sureshot way to popularity and success so they stick to it. The same is happening in Hollywood and every entertainment industry out there.
-
Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.
However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.
We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure. -
Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
Why do you think switching protagonists will not make the show better?
- Thread starter WaterTypeStarter
- Start date
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Doesn't mean we have to like it
KukuiFanatic501
Well-Known Member
True, but I guess the bigger priority is using what works. And unfortunately, being cliche is what works to do the job.
Besides, in all honesty, Satoshi being replaced by his son/daughter would most likely be a better decision, and incentive for fans of new and old, for the series than some random new guy that isn't tied to Ash at all.
SH65
Victory Over All!
Its not like using cliches is a bad thing in its own right its how you use them is what matters.
Sceptile Leaf Blade
Nighttime Guardian
Gotta question why you'd switch main characters in the first place and what you're hoping to gain from it. Before you have a solid answer to that question, as well as why you wouldn't be able to do what the new main character does with a new companion for Ash, why even switch and just piss off people that have been following Ash for so long? It's not so much bringing in a new character that's the problem, the series does that every region, it's more that if you're ditching the mainest of main characters after well over 20 seasons you have to have a good reason for doing so. It immediately puts a huge burden on the replacement to be absolutely amazing. Also, Ash getting a kid is just weird. He's perpetually 10, we never see him age, and then suddenly he ages up in a timeskip and gets a kid who steals the limelight? That'd probably piss off a lot of people who have been following Ash to suddenly skip out on that progression and him meeting someone to get a kid with instead of, continuing to strive to be a pokémon master.
KukuiFanatic501
Well-Known Member
Well to be fair, this kind of argument can go for virtually any sequel or 2nd generation series that comes after the original story has concluded. Pokemon isn't the first, and it most definitely wouldn't be given the biggest backlash for it compared to, say, other sequel series like Boruto, Yugioh GX/5Ds (at the beginning anyway), The Legend of Korra, etc. People who grew up with the first series are always more likely to have a special soft spot for the original characters and when seeing them replaced by a new MC and cast, they push more expectations and pressure on the sequel series hoping, from their mindsets, that it lives up to the original.
Basically the general curse that sequels get hit with the moment they're born, unfortunately.
KukuiFanatic501
Well-Known Member
Though, to somewhat pivot off of that, I guess another reason you could add in for why swapping Ash out with someone else wouldn't improve the series is also because of power progression, and how the anime has stuck to its way of doing things with it for over a decade.
Ash as he is now is not be the same loser he was when in the earlier seasons of the show, but it took Ash quite a long while to reach the status he's acquired. Going through 7 whole regions, and losing 6 of said regions leagues, before finally getting an official league win for himself prior to Journeys. Going through a long time of training, trial and error to get where he is now and break the old barriers he was stuck with for a long time. On top of going through all of the crazy experiences he's had when journeying through each region.
Then when his time as MC is up, we have some new comer that strives to one-up Ash and manages to do half of those things in less than half the time Ash took to get the same achievements. That wouldn't sit well with a lot of people, especially given the general complaints people already give journeys these days.
Ash as he is now is not be the same loser he was when in the earlier seasons of the show, but it took Ash quite a long while to reach the status he's acquired. Going through 7 whole regions, and losing 6 of said regions leagues, before finally getting an official league win for himself prior to Journeys. Going through a long time of training, trial and error to get where he is now and break the old barriers he was stuck with for a long time. On top of going through all of the crazy experiences he's had when journeying through each region.
Then when his time as MC is up, we have some new comer that strives to one-up Ash and manages to do half of those things in less than half the time Ash took to get the same achievements. That wouldn't sit well with a lot of people, especially given the general complaints people already give journeys these days.
Morax
King of heroes
How would making ash a pokemon master and growing up piss off his fans? Unless you prefer to keep him 10 forever ( which is pretty damn pathetic ) a resolution to his adventure would be the best thing that has ever happened to him.
Ash isn't mickey mouse, he's on an adventure and is striving to achieve something. Giving him what he wants would be justice if anything.
Dragonsoldier77
Bittersweet Satisfaction
Yeah i don’t really get how wrapping up ash’s journey would piss people off? I mean sure if they don’t actually resolve his goal and just have him go off into the sunset with his goal in limbo, but making ash achive his goal? If anything that would probably grab the attention of people who stopped caring about the anime from long ago after ash stopped making any progress , just like how bunch people at least took a glance at the anime again after ash finally won a league.
That’s the thing with just keeping ash in a loop with no progress, you’re eventually going to lose fan anyways over time while new fans wouldn’t care. Then if they try to extend ash’s tenure on the show by resetting him again, it’ll just end up as another BW situation that did end up pissing up old fans.
That’s the thing with just keeping ash in a loop with no progress, you’re eventually going to lose fan anyways over time while new fans wouldn’t care. Then if they try to extend ash’s tenure on the show by resetting him again, it’ll just end up as another BW situation that did end up pissing up old fans.
Sceptile Leaf Blade
Nighttime Guardian
Because you miss out on the journey of the conclusion as a viewer obviously. And as far as I can tell for Ash being a Pokémon master isn't just something you either are or aren't, it's more about the journey towards improving himself as a trainer. It's not some certificate he gets at some point and then he's done. Suddenly doing a time skip and then saying "in the meantime, Ash became a Pokémon master", would be superlame.
Morax
King of heroes
By the end of this season ash would have become the strongest trainer in the world. You're not missing out on nothing. There's nothing sudden about it.
Last edited:
Dragonsoldier77
Bittersweet Satisfaction
He’s being setup to fight the strongest trainer in the world. For ash whose journey has always revolved around battling, that’s as good as a conclusion as you can get. It doesn’t matter what a pokemon master is or isn’t, because none of those has been the things ash’s story has focused on. If ash beats leon, what else is there? Reset him and make people probably even madder than the BW reset? Have him star in a series where he doesn’t battle but instead have another goal and alienate people who saw ash as a battler?
Take naruto for example. Being hokage is not simply about being the strongest, it’s also about politics and bureaucracy. Nobdy cares about that though, since his story has always been about getting stronger and being accepted by the people. People don’t complain that they didn’t show every step for him getting there, because his journey already felt complete after the final battle. The only thing people complained about the timeskip was the final pairings, because shippers be obsessed.
KukuiFanatic501
Well-Known Member
Then again, you can't really be too sure. I doubt the writers would take that giant leap for Ash this soon, after he just won a league (which he was blocked from doing for decades). There's a big difference between winning a league and winning a world-championship.
I doubt Ash is leaving the show.
Here is the thing: A new protagonist will also have a Pikachu as its mascot and starter Pokemon, simply because Pikachu is the Franchise mascot.
The new protagonist will most likely get the same popular mons Ash has, especially in terms of starter Pokemon (So that means the OG Kanto starters, Typhlosion, Sceptile, Infernape, Greninja). But now they have given Ash a Lucario, Dragonite and Gengar and the new protag would also get them, because they are popular. You can make a similair case for the likes of Krookodile and the Kalos Squad (All of the Kalos mons Ash owns are in the top 6 popularity from their region, only Aegislash is higher up than Noivern, Hawlucha, Goodra and Talonflame).
The only thing i can see them doing if Ash becomes a Pokemon Master, is to still let him stay on the show, has a side battle goal (Doing tournaments) and perform a mentor role, because that way, they don't have to give the new protagonist a Pikachu (Which means the new protagonist will most likely have an Eevee).
This way, they can also keep Team Rocket on the show, since replacing Ash, also mean replacing them (And Jessie and James are the secondary human faces for the anime, while Meowth and too a lesser extent Wobbuffet are the secondary Pokemon faces of the anime), because it makes no sense to have Team Rocket without Ash. The other way around also holds true - it makes no sense to have Ash, without Team Rocket. Their stories have basically been intertwined with eachother at this point.
The only time there was a gap to replace Ash and Team Rocket, is after the OS (With Ash winning the Johto league in an epic finale against Gary). Then they potentially could have made a time jump for the Hoenn anime and have a potential child of Jessie and James be the new main protag for Hoenn and Sinnoh.
Here is the thing: A new protagonist will also have a Pikachu as its mascot and starter Pokemon, simply because Pikachu is the Franchise mascot.
The new protagonist will most likely get the same popular mons Ash has, especially in terms of starter Pokemon (So that means the OG Kanto starters, Typhlosion, Sceptile, Infernape, Greninja). But now they have given Ash a Lucario, Dragonite and Gengar and the new protag would also get them, because they are popular. You can make a similair case for the likes of Krookodile and the Kalos Squad (All of the Kalos mons Ash owns are in the top 6 popularity from their region, only Aegislash is higher up than Noivern, Hawlucha, Goodra and Talonflame).
The only thing i can see them doing if Ash becomes a Pokemon Master, is to still let him stay on the show, has a side battle goal (Doing tournaments) and perform a mentor role, because that way, they don't have to give the new protagonist a Pikachu (Which means the new protagonist will most likely have an Eevee).
This way, they can also keep Team Rocket on the show, since replacing Ash, also mean replacing them (And Jessie and James are the secondary human faces for the anime, while Meowth and too a lesser extent Wobbuffet are the secondary Pokemon faces of the anime), because it makes no sense to have Team Rocket without Ash. The other way around also holds true - it makes no sense to have Ash, without Team Rocket. Their stories have basically been intertwined with eachother at this point.
The only time there was a gap to replace Ash and Team Rocket, is after the OS (With Ash winning the Johto league in an epic finale against Gary). Then they potentially could have made a time jump for the Hoenn anime and have a potential child of Jessie and James be the new main protag for Hoenn and Sinnoh.
Last edited:
Sceptile Leaf Blade
Nighttime Guardian
What does his battle strength have to do with anything?
LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
What are you referring to with respect to this series? Is it the fact that you think he's gonna beat Leon and the show will end?
I don't think that's necessary. One of the reasons there are Pikaclones every generation is because any of those could also serve as mascot. Actually, back when the title of XY&Z38 made us think Ash would win, I was thinking the next generation would have a timeskip of a few years, and then start with Bonnie and Dedenne, with Ash making cameos. As far as Ash's iconic non-Pikachu Pokémon, I don't think those would be replaced at all. The next protagonist would get its own iconic Pokémon.
DP024
What's a wish-like benefit?
Into the Pokéverse!
If Ash wins, it will not be exclusively with his Journeys team. It will probably be with a team of his 6 best across all generations, like Pikachu with Pikashunium Z, Gigantamax Charizard, Mega Sceptile, Blaze Infernape, Ash-Greninja, and Lucario.
Sham
The Guardian of War
I definitely think Lycanroc deserves that place more than Lucario and possibly Sceptile as well but different discussion for a different day.
Aryash Bajaj
Say I'm fat again!
I don't think there is any plan for how to characterize him further (tends to happen when someone stays around for 20 years). It shows in this series given how many times he is pushed into the background and is often a slave to the episodic premise.
I just don't like his portrayal here and don't think that it is a particularly good thing to keep him like this for another 20 years or something.
LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
Oh, I agree with you, especially because Dusk Lycanroc is another "unique" Ash form, but I just don't think they would have Ash's final battle against Leon not use any of his Journeys Pokémon.
Oh, I misunderstood the original post. I thought you were saying you did not want him to end, not that you wanted him to end.