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Why do you think the writers went for a full clean slate this generation?

Nightlingbolt

AKA Nightlingbolt
*sigh*

Haven't you people learned from the start of BW in Japan that debating whether or not this is a reboot only leads to flame wars? Obviously not.
 

Teshub

Banned
I think that's the problem. Some people just base their opinion on summaries/screenshots but never watch the actual episodes. They do this for past seasons they never actually watched either.

How many times are we going to see gliscor&yanmega or rickhoenn mention how every BW episode is "amazing" because the screenshots looked nice?
 

RickHoenn

Banned
How many times are we going to see gliscor&yanmega or rickhoenn mention how every BW episode is "amazing" because the screenshots looked nice?

I have seen every episode of Best Wishes and compared to the first 20 or so episodes of Diamond & Pearl it has been FAR SUPERIOR. and I'm sure gliscor&yanmega have watched too, you'd need to call out everyone that's loving this saga.

I don't know how do you have the nerve to be calling out people when you're the most deluded person in this forum. Stop being negative and enjoy the damn anime or stop watching it (why torture yourself huh?) I bet you didn't watch ANYTHING before DP with the dumb assumptions you make everyday.
 

Teshub

Banned
Because we know you are lying rickhoenn. People who actually believe something is good do not need to constantly repeat it to others in a droning manner. And for your life you couldn't even describe 5 things that are exceptional about BW. Maybe you can say something like "well, no contests, no Dawn", but that has no connection to the current series. A normal person would simply say each series has their own qualities, but they prefer what the current installment offers. Stop acting like Best Wishes is the Rapture saving you from the evils of Dawn and Diamond & Pearl.
 
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Juputoru

M-m-m-m-onobear?!
The same thing applies to people trying to wagon jump into a new series and calling it better than anything else, even thought they get more enjoyment promoting it on forums than watching the dumb actual show.
But even then, the original series still wasn't as good thanks to WTF Pokemon. People are just too deluded/nostalgic about that season being the best of all time.
Let's not bring this thread into "nostalgia whores are bad!" "nuh-uh, people are just too quick to fangasm over the new stuff!" territory, please. (that goes for all of you, in case any of you I'm trying to target you specifically)

Let's also not make this thread about Dawn/Gary/Misty/Team Rocket/whoever arguments. Can't we all just get along and discuss this without dragging SPPf's favorite thread derails into it?

ON TOPIC STUFF:
I think the "clean slate"(whether or not you think BW actually counts as one, I'm going to use this term for simplicity's sake) came from two main factors.
1)The Black and White games are, in themselves, intended to be a clean slate. No old Pokemon can be found during the main plot. All the roles normally taken by old Pokemon(annoying cave bat, cave rock creature, water stuff that constantly attacks you as you surf) have been taken over by new Pokemon. A couple of characters from past games appear, but only when you've beaten the main plot. It's really as close to a clean slate as the main Pokemon games have ever gotten.
2)Several aspects of the show were getting stale, and BW gave the writers a change to change things up. Brock got dumped & replaced by a new sidekick male who actually does stuff(although Iris seems to be settling into a less active role, which worries me a bit). TR got a new purpose in life - lots of people miss the old TR, but I also remember lots of people complaining that the old TR wasn't funny anymore/just served to waste time in episodes/made too many episodes into boring "Pokemon of the day has a problem->TR steals the Pokemon->Ash saves the Pokemon while solving its problem somehow" plots.
 

aonbyte

lolwat
I think it's to help bring new people into Pokemon by giving them a "fresh start" as well. It allows less confusion for new people.
 

Astral Arrow

Active Member
That's precisely what I don't like about the BW series. It's too new. The music alternates between boinky, stupid cartoon music (that would be bad even to a two-year-old) and a rap/hip-hop type thing, and the so-called battles lack drama such and are so mind-numbingly boring that my attention literally wanders and I have to focus to keep watching. The new series lacks suspense, it's that simple; like you said, some elements were kept from the original series throughout AG and DP, and THAT'S what made them so great. With BW, no such luck.

However, two things are keeping me going for this saga.

The first is Team Rocket. They've changed. Considerably. They seem more dark, more formal, more... military I guess you could call it. And the Trio specifically seems to have been given an upgrade to badassness as was seen in Pokémon Emergency! before Ash and Co. regularly started whupping them at every available opportunity. This might seem out of the blue, but I think it makes perfect sense because, with indirect help from the Trio, Ash and Co. have taken down Team Magma, Team Aqua, and Team Galactic, and now Team Rocket is taking their operations on the offensive and pushing their sphere of influence further outwards. I admit I'm a little biased because I'm all in favor of an attempted Team Rocket takeover, so maybe I'm not the best person to ask. But I'm really looking forward to seeing what this will develop into later.

The second thing keeping me going is the reappearance of either Misty, May, Dawn, Tracey, or Brock. To me, Iris and Cilian are bland characters, uninspired and uninteresting. And they annoy me for different reasons.

But then again, this is all my less than humble opinion.
 

deokishisu.123

Justified Trope
lemme ask this- is the BW saga script as childish and corny as it has been since season 9, TPCi's first dubbed season?
 

Thingamajig

Well-Known Member
Well the corniness of Team Rocket's dialogue has been toned down dramatically... the rest of the dialogue has been pretty much the same.

The show's current scriptwriter (Jimmy Zoppi, who goes by Carter Cathcart as writer) has been a scriptwriter for the Pokemon dub non-stop since 2002. The only difference being that under 4Kids he was part of a rotating team. For TPCi's dub he seems to be the only one.
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
lemme ask this- is the BW saga script as childish and corny as it has been since season 9, TPCi's first dubbed season?

Pokemon has always been childish and corny. Both the Japanese raw and the English dub are filled with puns. Hell, 90% of Pokemon's species name are puns in some way.

Remember the Minnesota Vikings joke in movie 1?
 

Astral Arrow

Active Member
Er, that didn't seem so bad compared to the new series for some reason. I just really don't feel enthusiastic about it. Like I said, the only things keeping me going are Team Rocket and the reappearance of an old character.
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
Er, that didn't seem so bad compared to the new series for some reason. I just really don't feel enthusiastic about it. Like I said, the only things keeping me going are Team Rocket and the reappearance of an old character.

There's a difference between not liking the script and flat out pretending that puns didn't exist in "the good ol days"
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
Er, that didn't seem so bad compared to the new series for some reason. I just really don't feel enthusiastic about it. Like I said, the only things keeping me going are Team Rocket and the reappearance of an old character.

I agree that AG and DP did feel more like direct continuations of the original series, which is what compelled a lot of people to stick with it.

Personally I thought AG especially felt very similar to the original series in tone and humor, just with May/Contests thrown in and better handling of the groups Pokemon. DP drifted a bit more, but stuff like Paul, J, etc. all seemed geared to original fans who grew up.

But BW is finally giving us the big Giovanni/TR arc we never got in the old seasons, so this is great. Especially if this arc leads to TR's disbandment and the end of Giovanni, which is possible.
 

P0kelegend

Well-Known Member
I agree that AG and DP did feel more like direct continuations of the original series, which is what compelled a lot of people to stick with it.

Personally I thought AG especially felt very similar to the original series in tone and humor, just with May/Contests thrown in and better handling of the groups Pokemon. DP drifted a bit more, but stuff like Paul, J, etc. all seemed geared to original fans who grew up.

But BW is finally giving us the big Giovanni/TR arc we never got in the old seasons, so this is great. Especially if this arc leads to TR's disbandment and the end of Giovanni, which is possible.

Definitely agree with the last part! I for one am glad we are getting the Giovanni/TR arc.

I don't see the problem with BW. Its not a full clean slate at all, so what if a few characters are gone? I actually find it a bit refreshing. But yeah, I think if the games didn't take the route to be totally new and fresh then the anime wouldn't have. Also, to whomever is saying that it is a clean slate to end Ash's journey.. that is so false to me. Why would they end something that is still going strong? (Especially video game-wise). It would be a huge mistake for them to end it when they are still soaking tons, and tons, and tons of money from it all.
 

lethal Xsanity

Well-Known Member
This is a good point. We never saw exactly WHY Ash decided to go to Unova, unlike before he went to Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh. There was no incentive to go there apart from Oak telling him it existed.

He didn't have a goal in mind, Oak just wanted him to tag along on his vacation/business trip and Ash decided to stay there.
 

Nightlingbolt

AKA Nightlingbolt
He didn't have a goal in mind, Oak just wanted him to tag along on his vacation/business trip and Ash decided to stay there.

Pikachu: Gee, Ash, what do you want to do tonight?

Ash: Same thing we do every night, Pikachu... Try to take over the world!

Pikachu: Wait, isn't that Team Rocket's thing?

Ash: Damn, you're right! Meh, I guess we'll just try to enter the Unova League.

Pikachu: NARF!

Point is, Ash is doing the same thing he does in every region: collect eight Badges and enter the regional Pokemon League. He didn't have that goal when he got there, but he has it now, and that's what counts. In a nutshell, I guess I agree with the people that say as long as Ash is doing the same old thing, it's not really a clean slate. I mean, it's almost like Naruto with all-new characters and a main character who wants to become Hokage. There's nothing new about that!
 

pokeaussie37

Well-Known Member
Slightly off topic, but I laughed my head off at this week's dub episode. Some of that was the many youtube comments from people who either have no idea at the semi-reboot 'that's not Jenny and Joy!' , trolling with 'Kanto all over again' or 'get Charizard!'. Overall just being plain ignorant. Ignorant people are annoyances.

He didn't have a goal in mind, Oak just wanted him to tag along on his vacation/business trip and Ash decided to stay there.

Yeah I know. He's still a child and therefore has to obey his mother, who wanted him to go. Just stinks of a poor reason to send him there, and they could've given him a better one. No big deal though.
 

RocketTwurpSLR

pokemonmaniacSLR
yes'' but i still think he was to soft when it came to paul the old ash would have went agro at him :/

i so totally agree with you there, ash was more agressive in the first season
up to johto and when misty left he toned down a lot

i gotta agree he is still funny

i know team rocket got a little stale, but now there all bad and stuff i miss the old team rocket, i am proud of them but i realy miss thier blast offs and whiney behaivour they made pokemon hallarious as well as brock, i realy think they did the right choice getting rid of brock when they did (we'll miss him but we will be ok)

all they need to do is bring misty back now

i hope after iris and dento they will go back to old charecters all together again, but i dont see the point of many new charecters when were perfectly fine with the old ones---even though i enjoy new charecters there just getting to repetitive, i just think the female companion role is getting a little stale i think they should have an older girl (like brocks age) or a female rival that would be interesting
 

Astral Arrow

Active Member
I'm not denying it didn't have it. Sorry if I came across that way.

Ditto on the TR buildup. One problem thought: If Team Rocket was disbanded and Giovanni went away the Trio would have no reason to continue to be on the show, unless they decided to capture Pikachu for their own ends...
 
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