Why do you think they had females stop competitively battling after BW and following XY?

[Sham]

Same thing with Iris.

Incorrect. This is the first female character to defeat Ash in an official match and placed within the the top eight in each battling tournament she’s been in. Outside battles include Georgia, Drayden, Clair etc. So there really is no excuse at this point even omitting Contests. Additionally Misty got some battles in like most notably against Sakura.


Trying to sneak in “oh well they all participated in the Alola League” doesn’t add up. 2/3 of the girls got eliminated almost immediately and that’s never happened in BW.

 

[Shadao]

Everyone prior then were nobodies (counting Mallow, sadly). Lana just had the misfortune of battling Guzma. Had it been Sophocles instead while Kiawe fought (and surely would lose to) Guzma, it really wouldn't have been a real achievement for her to be at the top 4 either. She would need to beat one of the top 4 (males) to really assert some meaningful dominance.

But it would show that competitive battling isn't dead with Poké Girls. It's just needs an opening of a tournament that doesn't require something only the protagonist would get in the entire show.

Incorrect. This is the first female character to defeat Ash in an official match and placed within the the top eight in each tournament. Outside battles include Georgia, Drayden, Clair etc. So there really is no excuse at this point even omitting Contests.

And where was Iris during the main Unova League? Cheering for Ash instead of going there and competing herself. And why is she cheering? Because there was no means for her to enter without 8 badges that the others can do off-screen.

Look at the World Tournament and how natural Ash and Iris are as rivals. Them being both in the Unova League would have made that League more fun and tolerable than what we got with Cameron. But the nature of the Gyms and Ash being the main lead made that all impossible.

 

[Sham]

And where was Iris during the main Unova League? Cheering for Ash instead of going there and competing herself. And why is she cheering? Because there was no means for her to enter without 8 badges that the others can do off-screen.

Look at the World Tournament and how natural Ash and Iris are as rivals. Them being both in the Unova League would have made that League more fun and tolerable than what we got with Cameron. But the nature of the Gyms and Ash being the main lead made that all impossible.

Ash still didn’t forbid her from battling Georgia, Burgundy, 99x trainers, Stephen, himself, Clair, Drayden etc. Competitive can simply mean battling somebody with the intention to win via the dictionary and doesn’t have to be a tournament which you’re making it. Run the list of names everyone else battled please. In fact, they shafted Ash’s battle with Drayden just for Iris to fight him so your side take that Ash’s quest comes first isn’t even true

 

[Shadao]

Ash still didn’t forbid her from battling Georgia, Burgundy, 99x trainers, Stephen, himself, Clair, Drayden etc. Competitive can simply mean battling somebody with the intention to win via the dictionary and doesn’t have to be a tournament which you’re making it. Run the list of names everyone else battled please. In fact, they shafted Ash’s battle with Drayden just for Iris to fight him so your side take that Ash’s quest comes first isn’t even true

There are 8 Gyms + 3 extra. You need 8 Gym Badges to get in, so two will need 16 Gym Battles in total, rematch not included. The point is that Iris did not partake in the Unova League because the series is unable to do so without breaking the established rules. And really, why wouldn't she compete for Gym Badges? They would help her quest to become Dragon Master.

It's not Ash personally preventing Iris from joining, it's the very nature of the show with the unspoken rule that everyone knows. That's why Iris shows no interest in collecting badges.

And if battling somebody with the intention to win the definition of competitive battling, then where exactly is the decline? Everyone battles with the intent to win, even Serena. And Alola classmates are no different in that regard, especially since all of them partake in the Alola League.

 

[Gingertail24]

There are 8 Gyms + 3 extra. You need 8 Gym Badges to get in, so two will need 16 Gym Battles in total, rematch not included. The point is that Iris did not partake in the Unova League because the series is unable to do so without breaking the established rules. And really, why wouldn't she compete for Gym Badges? They would help her quest to become Dragon Master.

It's not Ash personally preventing Iris from joining, it's the very nature of the show with the unspoken rule that everyone knows. That's why Iris shows no interest in collecting badges.

And if battling somebody with the intention to win the definition of competitive battling, then where exactly is the decline? Everyone battles with the intent to win, even Serena. And Alola classmates are no different in that regard, especially since all of them partake in the Alola League.

Ash battling does not stop having a main battling girl since BW. The show itself proves this is false. We had kiawe, clemont, goh , who didn't have trouble being in competitive battling while Ash took centered stage. But when it comes to the pokegirl, suddenly it's Ash fault. How convenient. So to say it's a consequence of Ash is false. Dawn and.may literally go against this. Iris as well

And Lana only started battling at the very very end of SM at the Alola league. Before that she had the 10 sec battle with misty, wishiwashi, and that's pretty much it. Lana goal and primary goal was just making poplio bubbles stronger that's it. One little stuny in the Alola league, while nice, doesn't suddenly change how she was portrayed for 90% of the series.
Heck Serena participated in the dance tag team battle and the summer camp battle. But no one is calling her a competitive battling girl. You using the Alola league which only happened when the series about to end isnt a gotcha

It says alot that people like dawn, iris, misty, even may can and have given Ash a challenge in battle. But all the pokegirl past BW , wouldn't even last a minute let's be honest

 

[Sham]

There are 8 Gyms + 3 extra. You need 8 Gym Badges to get in, so two will need 16 Gym Battles in total, rematch not included. The point is that Iris did not partake in the Unova League because the series is unable to do so without breaking the established rules. And really, why wouldn't she compete for Gym Badges? They would help her quest to become Dragon Master.

Because the point of the series was her figuring out how she wanted to go about becoming a Dragon Master and what route she wanted to take after dropping Drayden’s school.

It's not Ash personally preventing Iris from joining, it's the very nature of the show with the unspoken rule that everyone knows. That's why Iris shows no interest in collecting badges.

That’s fine but I’m not talking about the Unova League you are so next topic.

And if battling somebody with the intention to win the definition of competitive battling, then where exactly is the decline? Everyone battles with the intent to win, even Serena. And Alola classmates are no different in that regard, especially since all of them partake in the Alola League.

Again not playing these games with you, you know the difference hence your attempt of finding a “gotcha moment”. My intent was correcting you trying to throw Misty and Iris under the bus when they clearly have battled more end of

 

[Shadao]

Ash battling does not stop having a main battling girl since BW. The hsow itself proves this is false. We had kiawe, clemont, goh , who didn't have trouble being in competitive battling while Ash took centered stage. So to say it's a consequence of Ash is false. Dawn and.may literally go against this. Iris as well

It certainly stopped them from going as far as the Pokémon League, the grand finale of any Pokémon series, until Alola removed the badge requirement. And when you start redefining battle competitiveness to just battling altogether, well this proves my suspicion that this whole topic has been nothing more than false pattern hunt to fit a complaint.

Because the point of the series was her figuring out how she wanted to go about becoming a Dragon Master and what route she wanted to take after dropping Drayden’s school.

That’s fine but I’m not talking about the Unova League you are so next topic.

Again not playing these games with you, you know the difference hence your attempt of finding a “gotcha moment”. My intent was correcting you trying to throw Misty and Iris under the bus when they clearly have battled more end of

It's more of figuring out what exactly is the definition of battle competitor? Because you made the term so broad and so vague that the topic at hand becomes a nothing-burger.

 

[Sham]

It's more of figuring out what exactly is the definition of battle competitor? Because you made the term so broad and so vague that the topic at hand becomes a nothing-burger.

Well it seems like those who are in the know are the majority and people that make any excuse to dismiss the claim suddenly are having comprehension issues

 

[Gingertail24]

It certainly stopped them from going as far as the Pokémon League, the grand finale of any Pokémon series, until Alola removed the badge requirement. And when you start redefining battle competitiveness to just battling altogether, well this proves my suspicion that this whole topic has been nothing more than false pattern hunt to fit a complaint.



It's more of figuring out what exactly is the definition of battle competitor? Because you made the term so broad and so vague that the topic at hand becomes a nothing-burger.

Then make a goal that involves competitive battling. Like they did with clemont, kiawe, GOH, dawn ,iris, may. Using Ash as an excuse doesn't work at all. No one is saying they need to be in the league. Dawn wasn't in the league and people loved her. So no Ash fault as an excuse isnt working

It's a goal that has competitive battling as one of the core components . Lana goal was never about battling. It was mostly poplio balloons. Like I said, Serena participated in the dance tag team battle, but u wouldn't call her a competitive battling girl . Because her main focus were showcases.

Kiawe being the flame of Alola/kahuna needed battling
Clemont is a gym leader
GOH project mew mission all in involved battling heavily
Battles was half of contest for may and dawn
Iris joining the m8 and becoming a strong dragon master
Misty gym leader (I'll give u OS was weak for misty from what I remember, but her returns make up for it. Demonstrating she got stronger as a gym leader and taking her role more seriously)




Lana? Only battled for the Alola league and wishiwashi. 90% she was just holding poplio or focusing on balloons.

I'm not even trying to diss Lana. But comparing her to the likes of iris or may or dawn is baffling

 

[Shadao]

Then make a goal that involves competitive battling. Like they did with clemont, kiawe, GOH, dawn ,iris, may. Using Ash as an excuse doesn't work at all. No one is saying they need to be in the league. Dawn wasn't in the league and people loved her. So no Ash fault as an excuse isnt working

It's a goal that has competitive battling as one of the core components . Lana goal was never about battling. It was mostly poplio balloons. Like I said, Serena participated in the dance tag team battle, but u wouldn't call her a competitive battling girl . Because her main focus were showcases.

Kiawe being the flame of Alola/kahuna needed battling
Clemont is a gym leader
GOH project mew mission all in involved battling heavily
Battles was half of contest for may and dawn
Iris joining the m8 and becoming a strong dragon master
Misty gym leader

Lana? Only battled for the Alola league that's it.

Clemont was primarily an inventor and went into the background after the Gym Battle. His entire gimmick is about inventions. It's like saying Brock is all about Pokémon Battling... when all he does is cook food and nurse Pokémon back to health for the majority of his screentime.

Goh is primarily about catching Pokémon, often to the point that he doesn't actually battle (which I know pissed off a lot of fans). Project Mew was added later, but even that was more akin to Totem Trials than actual Pokémon Battles.

May and Dawn's so-called battles were more about move appeal rather than beating up the other opponent. Many times, the battle ends with a call off and points are determined. This became more and more frequent with contests because the showrunners needed a way to make Pokémon Contest a distinct entity from Gym Battles.

Iris and Misty are battlers, yes. But notice how they never went to the Pokémon League with Ash as battlers themselves? This is because they cannot enter into the League because they have no Gym Badges.

Lana? I already mentioned about the Totem Wishiwashi but perhaps we need a trip down memory lane for the rest then:

Were they not all involved in the Alola League training arc? Were they not all in the Alola League? Did they all not participate in the Mock Gym Battles? Was Lana not the first classmate to take on a Trial? Did Lana not get two episodes focusing on her mastering two Z-Moves? Was there not an episode about a particular Dewpider that Lana helped train to reclaim its pond? Did Lillie not use Pikachu in a battle against her butler? Did Lillie not use Vulpix and Sandshrew in a Trial battle against Tyranitar? Did all the girls not participate in the Kantonian Malie Gym Challenge? Did all the girls not battle Lusamine and Necrozma? Did all the girls not battle Guzzlord? Were all the girls not Ultra Guardians as well? To my knowledge besides Ash, the girls are the only ones who even caught any Ultra Beasts lol. What a way to show you didn’t actually watch Sun and Moon.

I said why mate, Koharu was pushed to the backside for most of the series, mostly focusing just Ash and Goh. To make up for that, we had half of Ash’s major fights be against competitive battling women. Also how did you forget about Bea, his non one and done main female rival?

Because when you actually sit down and watch Sun and Moon, that had 3 main poke girls post BW, this isn’t the case.

 

[Sham]

I'm not even trying to diss Lana. But comparing her to the likes of iris or may or dawn is baffling

Yea at this point I’m convinced it’s being obtuse just for the sake of keeping a point. The goal post is moved every single time from arguing that May’s/Dawn’s arc was slowly leaning into seltzer water Contests to the fact that Iris and Misty not participating in the Pokémon League means they aren’t battlers and now we are at the point where Lana having a “battler personality !” is the same thing. He’s not serious.

 

[Shadao]

Yea at this point I’m convinced it’s being obtuse just for the sake of keeping a point. The goal post is moved every single time from arguing that May’s/Dawn’s arc was slowly leaning into seltzer water Contests to the fact that Iris and Misty not participating in the Pokémon League means they aren’t battlers and now we are at the point where Lana having a “battler personality !” is the same thing. He’s not serious.

Keep twisting the facts to fit your false narrative. The point is that things aren't so clear as you claimed it to be. I merely pointed out that Lana fits the bill of battle competitor in SM, but apparently that isn't enough. It has be hardcore competitor, like a big Kiawe rival to Ash. As if that's the new standard of battle competitor. To which I note that Iris and Misty, the other battlers mentioned frequently, never partook in the Pokémon Leagues because the rules establish they need 8 Gym Badges to participate despite being battlers themselves.

Which means they get sidelined to be cheerleaders for Ash in the grand finale. A consequence of Ash being the main lead and them being the companions rather than rivals. When you remove that requirement... suddenly, we see all the Alola Girls partaking a competitive League tournament for the first time in a long time. Geez, what stopped Misty and Iris from doing the same in their respective series since they are competitive battlers? Oh that's right, the show doesn't have the budget or time to double the amount of Gym Battles.

This the problem of the topic. And honestly, @sutellakiara said it better than anyone else here:

Ash is the MC = Battle niche already filled, he's the one already participating in the leagues and what-not. Another serious battler companion would clash with his niche and end up double clashing with the obsession they had with making him lose the leagues back then. Having both Ash and the battling focused companion loose at the league would have been awful and have the other companion be the one to win the league over Ash would have been a kick in the balls.
Kiawe's about the closest there's ever been to this and let's not pretend he was ever treated as serious competition to Ash in any way.
Serena? Contests worked well enough with Dawn and May, just keep doing something like them with her too, and while some may say Tripokalon is a downgrade because no battle round let's also not pretend the battle rounds from contests were super kino battles either.
And honestly there's absolutely nothing wrong with her being more feminine and girly than most. Why is femininity a bad thing now?
Hell you could even argue that Serena was "unique" as far as companions went until then because of that. Because she was not a battler.
XY was also the generation where Eevee shilling started to go at full force, gotta have it stay cute, and harmless and marketable. Serious battles a no-no for its image.
Alola? All the mains got "downgraded" from their game versions by turning them into kiddies rather than Captains. Battle prowess is kill with that choice.
Except Lillie who stayed kinda the same. And Lillie is the closest of a "main girl" Alola had and she was not even a battler even in the games, and even with all the changes they did to her storyline that'd have been a too big one.
Journeys? lol lmao rofl they had no idea what to do with anyone there until midway not even Ash and not even at the end they knew what to do with Koharu so they just did all the Eevee stuff I mentioned before x 1000000

There's no anti-girlboss woman-hating cabal led by Tomiyasu or Iwane or whoever. It's just basic marketing so that the cutemons and girlymons and the such have a place to be without being burdened by other things and don't have their cutesy appeal ruined plus and basic writing by not wanting to have overlapping roles in the main cast.

 

[Gingertail24]

Clemont was primarily an inventor and went into the background after the Gym Battle. His entire gimmick is about inventions. It's like saying Brock is all about Pokémon Battling... when all he does is cook food and nurse Pokémon back to health for the majority of his screentime.

Goh is primarily about catching Pokémon, often to the point that he doesn't actually battle (which I know pissed off a lot of fans). Project Mew was added later, but even that was more akin to Totem Trials than actual Pokémon Battles.

May and Dawn's so-called battles were more about move appeal rather than beating up the other opponent. Many times, the battle ends with a call off and points are determined. This became more and more frequent with contests because the showrunners needed a way to make Pokémon Contest a distinct entity from Gym Battles.

Iris and Misty are battlers, yes. But notice how they never went to the Pokémon League with Ash as battlers themselves? This is because they cannot enter into the League because they have no Gym Badges.

Lana? I already mentioned about the Totem Wishiwashi but perhaps we need a trip down memory lane for the rest then:

Did anyone say Brock is about battling?Heck even the anime staff admitted it by twisting his goal to be a doctor. Brock goal was to be a breeder/doctor. He is different from clemont because clemont whole arc was about reclaiming his gym and being a better gym leader.

He is at the first half of JN, try again. And even then, they started making him battle his catches before chucking a ball at it. Totem trials than Pokemon battles? What?? You mean like the totem trials in the anime they were battles?. One of the main points of project mew was to show GOH as a competent strong trainer

idk how to even react to the may/dawn comment Really "so called battles". The same battle that Ash used in his strategy in m8 and Leon used as well. The same battles that comprised 50% of contest and we actually saw dawn training. Ok. The same battles that may herself said she is taking after Ash battling style?? Like cmon

No one is saying they have to be at the Pokemon league. Dawn wasn't and people loved her. GOH didn't join a league and he battles alot. Heck even before the Alola league kiawe battled alot. So league or not, this point doesn't work

And I already replied to that comment. All he has is Alola league and wishiwashi battle. Everything else is either villain battle, she didn't even battle dewpider lol, and that teaching moment. So yeah , no

 

[Shadao]

No one said Brock is about battling. Heck even the anime staff admitted it by twisting his goal to be a doctor

He is at the first half of JN, try again. And even then, they started making him battle his catches before chucking a ball at it. Totem trials than Pokemon battles? What?? The whole point of project mew was to show GOH as a competent strong trainer

Lol idk how to even react to the nay/dawn comment Really "so called battles". The same battle that Ash used in his strategy in m8 and Leon used as well. The same battles that comprised 50% of contest and we actually saw dawn training. Ok. The same battles that may herself said she is taking after Ash battling style?? Like cmon

No one is saying they have to be at the Pokemon league bruh. Dawn wasn't and people loved her. GOH didn't join a league and he battles alot. Heck even before the Alola league kiawe battled alot. So league or not, this point doesn't work

And I already replied to that comment. All he has is Alola league and wishiwashi battle. Everything else is either villain battle, she didn't even battle dewpider lol, and that teaching moment. So yeah , no

Brock is a Gym Leader, like Clemont. And he fought Ash, like Clemont. But that's not what people remember him for. They remember him for the non-batting aspects. And Clemont is the same. He's not remembered as a battler, but as an inventor. He rarely battles afterwards.

As for May and Dawn, the point is that their battles are not about beating each other until the other faints. It's about appeal. The reason why Counter Shield became a thing is because Dawn was looking for an appealing way to show off her Pokémon. Ash simply retrofitted it as an actual battle tactic in his own way. It's like turning fireworks into rockets for war. Sure, it has the potential of being used as weapons, but it wasn't originally designed for it.

And the reason I bring up Pokémon Leagues for Iris and Misty... they never went beyond what was possible. They are battlers, but have to contend with minor League tournaments rather than the big ones. It's something I noticed when seeing Iris in the Master 8. There, it felt like a logical progression of her character arc, but in the BW? It felt like the tournaments were there to compensate for the fact the showrunners have no idea how to put Iris into the actual Unova League. Iris' potential in BW and the realization of that potential in JN made me realize just how limiting the series is with Ash occupying the battle niche.

And I do recall how people thought Misty was just there in Johto, doing nothing important until the Whirl Cup. That's why May and Dawn were well-received in comparison. They had character arcs and tangible goals.

Honestly, why even insist Lana did no battling? What are you trying to prove? That there is some grand conspiracy against Poké Girls for competitive battling?

 

[Gingertail24]

Brock is a Gym Leader, like Clemont. And he fought Ash, like Clemont. But that's not what people remember him for. They remember him for the non-batting aspects. And Clemont is the same. He's not remembered as a battler, but as an inventor. He rarely battles afterwards.

As for May and Dawn, the point is that their battles are not about beating each other until the other faints. It's about appeal. The reason why Counter Shield became a thing is because Dawn was looking for an appealing way to show off her Pokémon. Ash simply retrofitted it as an actual battle tactic in his own way. It's like turning fireworks into rockets for war. Sure, it has the potential of being used as weapons, but it wasn't originally designed for it.

And the reason I bring up Pokémon Leagues for Iris and Misty... they never went beyond what was possible. They are battlers, but have to contend with minor League tournaments rather than the big ones. It's something I noticed when seeing Iris in the Master 8. There, it felt like a logical progression of her character arc, but in the BW? It felt like the tournaments were there to compensate for the fact the showrunners have no idea how to put Iris into the actual Unova League. Iris' potential in BW and the realization of that potential in JN made me realize just how limiting the series is with Ash occupying the battle niche.

And I do recall how people thought Misty was just there in Johto, doing nothing important until the Whirl Cup. That's why May and Dawn were well-received in comparison. They had character arcs and tangible goals.

Honestly, why even insist Lana did no battling? What are you trying to prove? That there is some grand conspiracy against Poké Girls for competitive battling?

Ok your clearly not understanding what I'm saying no one is saying Lana never battled. We're saying competitive battling as the goal for main pokegirls for the last time sheesh. Having one or two competitive battles but basically never being exposed to that for 90% of the series is the issue with Lana. Not that she never ever battled.


It's still competitive battling. Contest was about showing off your Pokemon while being a strong and competent battler. You trying to discredit contest is odd. Especially since Lana battles in comparison aren't any better. And the whole point of the counter shield and spin dodge is that they were great tactics for regular battles. Which further proves my point that contest had legit competitive battles

I already talked about the league thing, idk what to tell you

We're saying we want female representation when it comes to battling competitively. So even if you don't want to count Brock or clement ( Brock thing was being a breeder/doctor not really a gym leader, and clemont battle was one of the most memorable XY fights) it's still an issue. Because Ash got the male representation covered. But for female main pokegirl. After BW it's non existent to rare

 

[Shadao]

Ok your clearly not understanding what I'm saying no one is saying Lana never battled. We're saying competitive battling for the last time sheesh.


It's still competitive battling. Contest was about showing off your Pokemon while being a strong and competent battler. You trying to discredit contest is odd. Especially since Lana battles in comparison aren't any better.

I already talked about the league thing, idk what to tell you

Because you defined Competitive Battling in the broadest of definition that it can apply to anyone willing to battle. And because of that, it simply becomes an arbitrary term of measurement where battles are counted or not counted. Like, what is the standard? Official competition? Just Battling? Personality?

People before me have already pointed the larger issues of the series, especially with Ash fulfilling the battle niche, may have caused the appearance of a decline and how it's not something that recently happened. There were seeds of that problem since the beginning. It's only manifesting now in the fandom's mind when established rules get broken, one by one.

 

[Gingertail24]

Because you defined Competitive Battling in the broadest of definition that it can apply to anyone willing to battle. And because of that, it simply becomes an arbitrary term of measurement where battles are counted or not counted. Like, what is the standard? Official competition? Just Battling? Personality?

People before me have already pointed the larger issues of the series, especially with Ash fulfilling the battle niche, may have caused the appearance of a decline and how it's not something that recently happened. There were seeds of that problem since the beginning. It's only manifesting now in the fandom's mind when established rules get broken, one by one.

I really didn't define it as broad. I never mentioned anything about personality. You did.
Does said character goal have competitive battling as it's core aspect. There you go. Brock goal was about being a breeder/Doctor. Not gym leader. Kiawe goal is about being a strong fire type trainer/fire of Alola which involves rasing and battling with strong fire types

And I'll say it again, Ash isn't a valid excuse. By my prior examples with dawn, may, GOH, kiawe.

 

[Shadao]

I really didn't define it as broad. I never mentioned anything about personality. You did.
Does said character goal have competitive battling as it's core aspect. There you go. Brock goal was about being a breeder/Doctor. Not gym leader. Kiawe goal is about being a strong fire type trainer/fire of Alola which involves rasing and battling with strong fire types

And I'll say it again, Ash isn't a valid excuse. By my prior examples with dawn, may, GOH, kiawe.

Now there's a workable definition. Now looking at BW, we start to see companions being defined by professions that don't involve battling.

Cilian for instant is a Pokémon Connoisseur, which a profession involving judging a Pokémon's bond with its trainer and how to make it better. No battling is required. Clemont is an inventor who creates a robot Gym Leader just so he can have more time to do more inventions rather than do Gym Battles all day. Invention is his passion. Bonnie is well too young to do Pokémon training. XY in total, none except Ash are interested in competitive battling.

In SM, we see Kiawe is obsessed with battling, but the others vary in terms of goal. Mallow is related to cooking, Lillie is more of getting over her fear of Pokémon and fixing family issues, and Sophocles is more interested in inventions and Charjabug racing. Lana is more vague when it comes to goals, but it's generally considered to be mastering fishing and exploring for new Water-type Pokémon. A goal doesn't technically need battling but considering the circumstances of wild Pokémon attacking, it is recommended just like Goh facing off Pokémon who are not inclined to be so caught easily.

Which is why I point out that Goh usually throws a Poke Ball at a Pokémon without ever needing to battle at the beginning. Battling may be an option, but it's not a technically requirement. While Project Mew may have trials that require battling, such as raids, is it any different from Totem Battles in Alola?

As we see with the supporting cast, very few of Ash's supporting cast (which is really just Kiawe) have competitive battling as the core aspect of the goal. Even if we push Goh into that spot alongside Kiawe, it's still not that much. All it really shows is that battling in general went down, being distilled to just Ash. And considering that SM is more about slice of life than Pokémon battles, I wouldn't be surprised if Ash battled less frequently in that series as well. When Journeys came around, Ash became full-time battler and he got himself a lot of female rivals that exceed any League tournament he faced, with Bea being a true rival to him (and the first recurring female rival to boot). And really, Ash truly monopolize the battling aspect given that Goh's goal and Project Mew has more of a variety that isn't just about battling. In fact, the whole Mew conflict is resolved not with a fight, but with words.

Looking at this overall, it's not really that simple as to say the anime wants no girls being battle competitors. Rather, the series was distilling everything relating to battling to Ash's story, with folks like Gladion and Kiawe becoming rivals to his story. Which is I believe Ash has been the reason for this appearance of decline. The games abandoned contests, but Leagues still remain as a stable of the franchise aside from "Gotta Catch 'Em All." As long as Ash remained the main protagonist and the anime distilled Pokémon to those basic concepts, it makes sense as to why Ash had to go in order for a more battle competitive girl to debut and thrive.

 

[Gingertail24]

Now there's a workable definition. Now looking at BW, we start to see companions being defined by professions that don't involve battling.

Cilian for instant is a Pokémon Connoisseur, which a profession involving judging a Pokémon's bond with its trainer and how to make it better. No battling is required. Clemont is an inventor who creates a robot Gym Leader just so he can have more time to do more inventions rather than do Gym Battles all day. Invention is his passion. Bonnie is well too young to do Pokémon training. XY in total, none except Ash are interested in competitive battling.

In SM, we see Kiawe is obsessed with battling, but the others vary in terms of goal. Mallow is related to cooking, Lillie is more of getting over her fear of Pokémon and fixing family issues, and Sophocles is more interested in inventions and Charjabug racing. Lana is more vague when it comes to goals, but it's generally considered to be mastering fishing and exploring for new Water-type Pokémon. A goal doesn't technically need battling but considering the circumstances of wild Pokémon attacking, it is recommended just like Goh facing off Pokémon who are not inclined to be so caught easily.

Which is why I point out that Goh usually throws a Poke Ball at a Pokémon without ever needing to battle at the beginning. Battling may be an option, but it's not a technically requirement. While Project Mew may have trials that require battling, such as raids, is it any different from Totem Battles in Alola?

As we see with the supporting cast, very few of Ash's supporting cast (which is really just Kiawe) have competitive battling as the core aspect of the goal. Even if we push Goh into that spot alongside Kiawe, it's still not that much. All it really shows is that battling in general went down, being distilled to just Ash. And considering that SM is more about slice of life than Pokémon battles, I wouldn't be surprised if Ash battled less frequently in that series as well. When Journeys came around, Ash became full-time battler and he got himself a lot of female rivals that exceed any League tournament he faced, with Bea being a true rival to him (and the first recurring female rival to boot). And really, Ash truly monopolize the battling aspect given that Goh's goal and Project Mew has more of a variety that isn't just about battling. In fact, the whole Mew conflict is resolved not with a fight, but with words.

Looking at this overall, it's not really that simple as to say the anime wants no girls being battle competitors. Rather, the series was distilling everything relating to battling to Ash's story, with folks like Gladion and Kiawe becoming rivals to his story. Which is I believe Ash has been the reason for this appearance of decline. The games abandoned contests, but Leagues still remain as a stable of the franchise aside from "Gotta Catch 'Em All." As long as Ash remained the main protagonist and the anime distilled Pokémon to those basic concepts, it makes sense as to why Ash had to go in order for a more battle competitive girl to debut and thrive.

Really just kiawe? Bruh. Even the few people who see Lana as battling girl don't even agree with that. Like dawn who battled more than kiawe goes against your point. You trying to downplay dawn strategic battling to just showing off your mons just shows were not gonna see eye to eye. Cause that's false . There is a reason dawn can give Ash a challenge and Ash actively trained with her.

I'm sorry it just seems your downplay the battling other companion did just to prove your point.

Let's just agree to disagree. Cause your clearly not understanding my point. And I'm not even sure where your getting at

 

[Shadao]

Really just kiawe? Bruh. Even the few people who see Lana as battling girl don't even agree with that. Like dawn who battled more than kiawe goes against your point. You trying to downplay dawn strategic battling it just showing off your mons just shows were not gonna see eye to eye. Cause that's false bruh. There is a reason dawn can give Ash a challenge and Ash actively trained with her.

I'm sorry it just seems your downplay the battling other companion did just to prove your point.

Let's just agree to disagree. Cause your clearly not understanding my point. And I'm not even sure where your getting at

By your words, Kiawe having less battles than Dawn tells me that yes, the decline of battle competitions was happening to all of Ash's companions, not just the girls.

Battling was being distilled to just Ash. Pokémon in general was being distilled to the basics, from companions only having one or two Pokémon to Ash's companion being just Goh in the final Pokémon series.