Why does everyone think Ash will lose to Cynthia?

[JD]

I doubt Ash could beat her because even if He defeated one of her pokemon with one of his strongest Charizard or one of his Veterans they'd probably be extremely tired. And if he did win he'd really be saved by look or they'd have to make his pokemon All DEM temporarily for the battle.

 

[streetlightdsb]

Is it really that unfeasible that Ash could beat Cynthia? I don't think he will, for story purposes, but acting as if he doesn't have the ability to is being a bit presumptious.

Think about it this way. Ash is more than likely going to challenge the BF after the league. This could double up as a training arc for him challenging the Elite 4 and Cynthia.
So, when he inevitably beats Palmer (who I assume would be the strongest Brain-on par with Brandon) he could be ready.

Also, the beginning Movie 12 showed us Palmer battling Cynthia for a moment, seemingly an even match up from what we saw. So what's to say Ash couldn't beat Cynthia if he beat Palmer and has beaten Brandon? It seems to me that top Frontier Brain= Champion more or less, in terms of strength. Not to mention Ash would be using reserves most probably.

Going by my thoughts on it, Ash will have the capabilities to beat the Elite 4 and potentially Cynthia (although as I've said I don't think he will for plot purposes).

Long winded post over

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

Is it really that unfeasible that Ash could beat Cynthia? I don't think he will, for story purposes, but acting as if he doesn't have the ability to is being a bit presumptious.

Think about it this way. Ash is more than likely going to challenge the BF after the league. This could double up as a training arc for him challenging the Elite 4 and Cynthia.
So, when he inevitably beats Palmer (who I assume would be the strongest Brain-on par with Brandon) he could be ready.

Also, the beginning Movie 12 showed us Palmer battling Cynthia for a moment, seemingly an even match up from what we saw. So what's to say Ash couldn't beat Cynthia if he beat Palmer and has beaten Brandon? It seems to me that top Frontier Brain= Champion more or less, in terms of strength. Not to mention Ash would be using reserves most probably.

Going by my thoughts on it, Ash will have the capabilities to beat the Elite 4 and potentially Cynthia (although as I've said I don't think he will for plot purposes).

Long winded post over

If Cynthia hadn't beaten Palmer, she wouldn't still be champion, would she?

 

[GaZsTiC]

If Cynthia hadn't beaten Palmer, she wouldn't still be champion, would she?

Well yeah but the point he was trying to make is that Palmer and Cynthia looked like they were on equal footing; each being as strong as the other. Therefore if Ash beats Palmer then he should have a chance against Cynthia.

 

[streetlightdsb]

If Cynthia hadn't beaten Palmer, she wouldn't still be champion, would she?

No, but the fact that it seemed like an even match gives me the idea that he COULD have beaten her. In this hypothetical full battle between Plaer and Cynthia, it could have been a really close, last poke standing thing. If Ash beats Palmer, this would put him on the same sort of platform of having the ability to win against Cynthia, whether it was close or not. Like I said, I'm with everyone else on this- Ash won't beat Cynthia, but I disagree with the people saying he hasn't got a hope in hell.

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

Well yeah but the point he was trying to make is that Palmer and Cynthia looked like they were on equal footing; each being as strong as the other. Therefore if Ash beats Palmer then he should have a chance against Cynthia.

No, but the fact that it seemed like an even match gives me the idea that he COULD have beaten her. In this hypothetical full battle between Plaer and Cynthia, it could have been a really close, last poke standing thing. If Ash beats Palmer, this would put him on the same sort of platform of having the ability to win against Cynthia, whether it was close or not. Like I said, I'm with everyone else on this- Ash won't beat Cynthia, but I disagree with the people saying he hasn't got a hope in hell.

Well, if that's the case, I agree. He has a chance, but will he win? No. That would ruin animé.

 

[Ash-kid]

No, but the fact that it seemed like an even match gives me the idea that he COULD have beaten her. In this hypothetical full battle between Plaer and Cynthia, it could have been a really close, last poke standing thing. If Ash beats Palmer, this would put him on the same sort of platform of having the ability to win against Cynthia, whether it was close or not. Like I said, I'm with everyone else on this- Ash won't beat Cynthia, but I disagree with the people saying he hasn't got a hope in hell.

I agree with you. If Ash will fight against Palmer after the league he will beat him, I sure. The question is if he will win the league. If he will beat all 4- Paul, Nando, Conway and Barry he can be the champion of the league.
And another question is, if he can defeat the rest of the Elite 4 before Cynthia. With his future team I think he will be stronger trainer than ever he had.

 

[Squaaah]

Is it really that unfeasible that Ash could beat Cynthia? I don't think he will, for story purposes, but acting as if he doesn't have the ability to is being a bit presumptious.

Think about it this way. Ash is more than likely going to challenge the BF after the league. This could double up as a training arc for him challenging the Elite 4 and Cynthia.
So, when he inevitably beats Palmer (who I assume would be the strongest Brain-on par with Brandon) he could be ready.

Also, the beginning Movie 12 showed us Palmer battling Cynthia for a moment, seemingly an even match up from what we saw. So what's to say Ash couldn't beat Cynthia if he beat Palmer and has beaten Brandon? It seems to me that top Frontier Brain= Champion more or less, in terms of strength. Not to mention Ash would be using reserves most probably.

Going by my thoughts on it, Ash will have the capabilities to beat the Elite 4 and potentially Cynthia (although as I've said I don't think he will for plot purposes).

Long winded post over

Seeing as the champion is the strongest trainer in the region, thats unlikely. Also, you can;t really go on a tiny clip of a battle. If you picked the right clip from Paul vs Brandon, it could look like they were equally matched. Same with Ash and Paul.

Cynthia not only has one of the strongest pokemon we've seen to date, she also has years of experience backing her. Just because Ash has some strong fully evolved pokemon backing him doesn't suddenly make him an elite trainer. Bearing in mind he STILL hasn't won a league yet, let alone an Elite 4 member, yet ALONE a Champion.

 

[Ash-kid]

He will have to be also smarter in his battle if he want to defeat Cynthia.
Really, it's time for him to beat an elite member, it's something that never happened.
And Squaaah, don't forget that Ash has also a lot of experience. Even Cynthia is appreciate this Chimchar so much so I think that as Infernape it will be able to defeat even Garchomp, because of the harsh training that Paul gave it, and what Ash gave it, and also after some help of the other pokemon against Garchomp.
The problem is the other pokemon. Of course she has some strong powerhouses, but I have a feeling that Roseraid and Gastrodon are not strong as the others. Milotic- Ash is en expert of beating them. Spiritomb and Lucario (That were very very strong) he beat once, of course without low they're powers. So Garchomp is the main opponeny.

 

[streetlightdsb]

Seeing as the champion is the strongest trainer in the region, thats unlikely. Also, you can;t really go on a tiny clip of a battle. If you picked the right clip from Paul vs Brandon, it could look like they were equally matched. Same with Ash and Paul.

Cynthia not only has one of the strongest pokemon we've seen to date, she also has years of experience backing her. Just because Ash has some strong fully evolved pokemon backing him doesn't suddenly make him an elite trainer. Bearing in mind he STILL hasn't won a league yet, let alone an Elite 4 member, yet ALONE a Champion.

Fair point about the clip thing. I was actually thinking about Cynthia and Brandon against Paul in their respective matches as well. They both pummeled him completely which makes me believe they might be of similar strength levels. Baseless speculation I know, but tbh we don't really have any real comparable evidence of strength between anyone that hasn't batted at this point.

I'm going to throw it out there- I'm one of the people that think Ash could win the league this time round. He has more experience and techniques. And I think the amount of screentime the Elite 4 have had means we could be loking at an Elite 4 arc. If this did happen, I doubt Ash would be swept by Aaron, it would just be a big let-down. Therefore I reckon Ash will make his way at least partly through the Elite 4. Call it DEM if you wish but I think it could happen. Oh and as I've said I don't think Ash will beat Cynthia at all, so at least we agree on that.

 

[Ash-kid]

Yes and in this saga were the most Elite 4 ever, even more than Hoenn. Also it was explained a lot about challenging the elite4. Maybe the reason that Ash did not fight with Lucian, Aaron and Cynthia (And 2 of them he had asked to fight) was because he will battle them after the league. The writers did it on purpose. It's just does not make sense that 3 of the elite4 have appeared and even 1 of them have not battled with Ash.

 

[SoulSilverMstr411]

Just because Paul has different pokemon now than he did back in Top-down Training dosn't mean he'll fare any better against Cynthia than he did back then. As if evolving means that Honchkrow and Weavile are suddenly strong enough to take down Pokemon with 10 years plus of experience.

 

[knux-the-killer]

Ash defeating Cynthia?
Excuse me, but no.
Like he is gonna make a miracle now? He lost to all the elite fours until now, like heck is gonna defeat a champion!
Infernape, Staraptor and Torterra aren't gonna save that. Ash still got a weak half of the team.

And I doubt that he is going to fight her.
Remember, what she got?
Garchomp.
Chances to defeat it? Zero.

 

[Somorio]

I'm just gonna throw this out here, but Paul's Torterra did bring Garchomp, Cynthias strongest pokemon to it's knees. I'm not saying that means that either Paul or ash is going to actually defeat her, but it does show at least that even her strongest pokemon has some sort of weakness or limitation, and that Cynthia is not in some super goddess state.
She's just chilling on the high end of the uber scale is all.

I'm also thinking logically, that if ash beats paul in the league, and Paul was able to bring garchomp to it's knees way earlier in the sinnoh season. Theoretically Ash should be able to give her a good fight.

 

[dman_dustin]

Just because Paul has different pokemon now than he did back in Top-down Training dosn't mean he'll fare any better against Cynthia than he did back then. As if evolving means that Honchkrow and Weavile are suddenly strong enough to take down Pokemon with 10 years plus of experience.

Paul used Chimchar against her Cynthia, CHIMCHAR, he really wasn't thinking when he battled her. He just chose 2 random Pokemon and went for it (as if Murkrow was a better choice to battle Garchomp than Chimchar).

Paul lost horribly because of which Pokemon he chose. Weavile was his best shot, but once Garchomp took that out easily the rest were a piece of cake.

Ash could not win at all with the Pokemon he has but Ash has Pokemon that are far superior to Chimchar, Murkrow, and Weavile were when facing against Cynthia. Swellow/Staraptor, Glalie, and soon to be Infernape, could probably do more damage to Cynthia's Garchomp than Paul's Pokemon at that time.

Of course that said it's not like Cynthia has been doing squat, so her Garchomp could be stronger than before, assuming of course it could get stronger.

 

[--> kahing]

I'm just gonna throw this out here, but Paul's Torterra did bring Garchomp, Cynthias strongest pokemon to it's knees. I'm not saying that means that either Paul or ash is going to actually defeat her, but it does show at least that even her strongest pokemon has some sort of weakness or limitation, and that Cynthia is not in some super goddess state.
She's just chilling on the high end of the uber scale is all.

I'm also thinking logically, that if ash beats paul in the league, and Paul was able to bring garchomp to it's knees way earlier in the sinnoh season. Theoretically Ash should be able to give her a good fight.

Yeah, I'm sure that Ash would put up a good fight, especially if he uses her reserves. I highly doubt he'll be able to beat Cynthia though, maybe a few of the Elite 4s. She is the champion.

 

[Buizelster]

Because when it comes to the cournaments or high tier trainers. Ash always loses.

 

[Locormus]

Paul used Chimchar against her Cynthia, CHIMCHAR, he really wasn't thinking when he battled her. He just chose 2 random Pokemon and went for it (as if Murkrow was a better choice to battle Garchomp than Chimchar).

Paul lost horribly because of which Pokemon he chose. Weavile was his best shot, but once Garchomp took that out easily the rest were a piece of cake.

Ash could not win at all with the Pokemon he has but Ash has Pokemon that are far superior to Chimchar, Murkrow, and Weavile were when facing against Cynthia. Swellow/Staraptor, Glalie, and soon to be Infernape, could probably do more damage to Cynthia's Garchomp than Paul's Pokemon at that time.

Of course that said it's not like Cynthia has been doing squat, so her Garchomp could be stronger than before, assuming of course it could get stronger.

I agree. Cynthia is definatly able to be beaten by Ash when Sinnoh is through. Get some of his reserves and it's clobbering time. Glalie is the obvious choice for Ash against Garchomp, but it knows Flamethrower so that will be a problem.

As for Ash being on par with Cynthia. That's only his Kanto main four. Since they beaten Brandon, who is a BF leader. Who should be on par with Palmer, another BF leader, who fought on par with Cynthia. So with his reserves he would be on par, being able to give her quite the match.

I'm not going to do a versus here.. because Ash isn't going to win due to plot issues. He barely going to lose.

 

[redrunner89]

I'm talking about if he faces her officially, not like she faced Paul out in the open.

I love Cynthia, and I know she's stronger than Ash, hell I believe Misty is stronger than Ash.

But it strikes me how the majority of the fandom thinks when Ash takes the Elite Four challenge, he'll defeat everyone but Cynthia.

I'm not defending Ash, it just strikes me why people think this, I thought Ash was almighty and powerful.

Although, a loss to Cynthia show's he's still got tons of work to do.

With that said, he'll probably start off on a new journey again.

Any thoughts?

okay i've just started to comment on the anime, but Ash is a terrible, awful, and disgraceful trainer he doesn't care about types or having a varied move pool for his pokemon. I don't think that he'd beat a single elite 4 member, even with an almost fully evolved team for the first time in the entire series. He just doesn't have a good strategy at all.

 

[Ash-kid]

okay i've just started to comment on the anime, but Ash is a terrible, awful, and disgraceful trainer he doesn't care about types or having a varied move pool for his pokemon. I don't think that he'd beat a single elite 4 member, even with an almost fully evolved team for the first time in the entire series. He just doesn't have a good strategy at all.

Well in his battles vs E4 members he was too complacent, thought he will win easily, that's what makes us think he has no strategy.

He has strategy, but he need to show this vs the strongest trainers, like Paul, before he will be able to beat the E4.