I'd never do that. But Game Freak alienating the rest of the fanbase would be just as stupid and detrimental.
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Why does SWSH feel so incomplete?
- Thread starter Sham
- Start date
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
This is Game Freak's first venture into a console-type game. It REALLY doesn't help they're dealing with reworking over 800 models into HD form (though I have noticed some Pokemon still have paper mouths). It may feel empty, but it's understandable.
I expect them to iron things out with the eventual second version of this generation and make things more alive. Frankly, I'm glad they ironed things out like breeding, making mints, and such. I can actually make these totally worthless Shiny Pokemon combat-ready.
I expect them to iron things out with the eventual second version of this generation and make things more alive. Frankly, I'm glad they ironed things out like breeding, making mints, and such. I can actually make these totally worthless Shiny Pokemon combat-ready.
Fair enough.
That's good that they did that. I do some ev training but not in the competitive sense.
Ophie
Salingerian Phony
I am a semi-competitive battler (I am actually a Johnny, not a Spike), but I would definitely agree. Games fine-tuned for the competitive scene all have one thing in common: They were multiplayer-oriented from the start. The Street Fighter 1 arcade machines were designed for someone else to be playing on the other half of the cabinet. Super Smash Bros., the first one for the Nintendo 64, was meant to be played between two or more humans too. Fortnite has a half-baked single-player mode that was ultimately dropped for the Switch version when it became clear people were ignoring it. Pokémon is perhaps the only example, maybe except for Call of Duty, that became competitive by accident.
Pokémon Red and Blue/Green were originally designed as simple single-player RPGs that also happen to have a two-player mode where people can pit their finished Pokémon teams against each other. The result is that there are people in it for the story and people in it for the competition. (It also resulted in a lot of RPG elements that wouldn't otherwise make sense in a multiplayer game, such as character levels and moments when their stats suddenly get better--evolution, that is.)
You can see the same thing for BlazBlue, really. It's a fighting game, so it's got a lot of people in it for head-to-head battling, and they go to great lengths to keep everyone as balanced as possible (Japanese fighting game players are INCREDIBLY nitpicky about this). However, it also has a complex story with likable heroes and love-to-hate villains, so it also got a bunch of fans who play them for the story (such that they later released visual novels and audio skits). Arc System Works knows better than to show preferential treatment toward one group or another, so every BlazBlue game has kept a strong element of both. That being said, it's also different from Pokémon in that the fans of the story and fans of the fighting in BlazBlue are not antagonistic toward each other, as opposed to the Pokémon fandom as a whole, in which fans of the story, characters, and lore keep pretty separate from fans of competitive battling. Put too much story into a game and the competitive fans will dislike it; don't put enough story in and the fans of the story, characters, and lore will dislike it; put in just enough...and the competitive fans will say there's too much and the others will say there's too little. And Game Freak hasn't quite figured out what to make of this.
(You can actually see this in how there is the occasional comment here from a competitive battler how they love that you can go through the main campaign so fast, allowing them to get to the stuff they care about.)
Makes me think about the great lengths I went through to get that shiny Furfrou in Ultra Moon, the only shiny I have deliberately hatched because I'm a fan of Furfrou. Even though it only has one Ability and Everstone guarantees the right Nature, I had to make a lot of compromises. If Furfrou was available in Sword and Shield, I could fix some of those compromises.
DaddyOak
Well-Known Member
they made things easier but i wouldnt say that the competitive players got a good deal in the end.
yes they made stuff easier for the perfect stats but there are a ton of flaws
first of all for competitive players dexit meaning less options for so called balance while op pokemon from past generations are still in withouth the counters for them.
dynamax is broken. furthermore 20 minute battles are to little for certain battle options. meaning stall wars for the win making certain modes unplayable.
If they truly wanted to please competitive fans there would be zero gimmicks like dynamax or it should have gimmicks that have little impact. The most interesting competetive era was gen 4. gen 5 also had no gimmicks but those pokemon that where introduced that power creep was crazy. in gen 4 a ton of pokemon where usuable wich are barely used in sun & moon era to name one example.
The only people that really got the good end of the bargain with sword & shield are the people who wanted to play a new pokemon game this year to experience a new gen with 8 gyms and be done with it afterwards. it's most definitely not a win for competitve in sword & shield it's a pretty sad generation for competitive players. Sword & shield are a loss for most veteran players who invested allot of time in older games.
quality of life is nice but in the end it's just a very small addition to make stuff less of a hassle yet if the gameplay is lacking and a ton of stuff is missing compared to older titles what value do these easier changes have. it's like eating peperoni withouth the pizza dough beneath it.
I agree to disagree on it. Apart from missing Pokemon, it seems more geared to competitive.
That said, I agree with you about gimmicks such as Dynamax. They're way broken.
One thing I wish they'd bring back apart from a better end game is, more things to do in game like Pokemon contests, actual digging for treasure like in D/P/PT, more caves and dungeons to go through and puzzles to solve. I miss being more involved in the game itself.
That said, I agree with you about gimmicks such as Dynamax. They're way broken.
One thing I wish they'd bring back apart from a better end game is, more things to do in game like Pokemon contests, actual digging for treasure like in D/P/PT, more caves and dungeons to go through and puzzles to solve. I miss being more involved in the game itself.
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Spider-Phoenix
#ChespinGang
Actually for all we know they are using the same models as XY-USUM. Only a few were slightly tweaked.
It's just empty because they are lazy since they know people will buy it anyway.
DaddyOak
Well-Known Member
aside from the missing pokemons they deleted over 100 moves. also abilities that are lost in this game that's not what i call geared towards competitive
tons of options are removed. they gutted competitve in terms of content and strategy. those quality of life changes have way less value thanks to that.
If it was actually geared towards competitve it would have been more like gen IV. now that meta was interesting no gimmicks or bs.
quality of life changes are just a very small piece of the whole thing to enjoy a game. Gen 4 competitive was way more fun than with mega;s and z moves even withouth perfect Iv's.
People are givings these minor things to much credit. those additions would have been nice if all those options where not removed or if only 100 pokemon where removed let alone introducing a broken mechanic that is dynamax.
Fair enough. I agree with you there. There was more to do and more variety moveset wise.
DaddyOak
Well-Known Member
I'd say sword & shield was more geared towards the casual audience 1 time playthrough.
The majority that buys the games maybe like 90%+ the people that beat the gyms and the champions and put the games down afterwards no matter wich pokemon title it is excellent to bad while ignoring post game and other stuff that was hidden in gen 2 to 5 games wich had so much stuff to do aside from main story.
gym leader battles are the main attention in sword& shield they made that much grander here.
It's geared towards a casual playthrough to experience the overworld and story once. and yes the game should work well for especially that audience they won't notice what's missing because they usually just rush through the game anyway.
There where interviews in wich gamefreak even said that majority of their audience rushes through the game finishes the game as fast as possible meaning that even ingame non postgame content is usually skipped anyway. Why create content that is not going to be used anyway. wich in sword & shield means very linear and small routes and towns that are holly wood film studio's with barely any spots that one can enter. It's efficient I'll give them that. it has never been that simple especially as far as the routes/ dungeons go
The problem with a game being that much bought and in wich the majoairty of the audience is very casual is that allot of the audience usually doesnt play all the content. a fraction in most cases.
If where going to say dragon quest XI or xenoblade chronicles 90% + of those buyers will pretty much use all the game content while with pokemon even with huge games as heartgold soulsilver & black & white 2 90% would just play the bare minimum. and touch barely anything of what those games have to offer.
The majority that buys the games maybe like 90%+ the people that beat the gyms and the champions and put the games down afterwards no matter wich pokemon title it is excellent to bad while ignoring post game and other stuff that was hidden in gen 2 to 5 games wich had so much stuff to do aside from main story.
gym leader battles are the main attention in sword& shield they made that much grander here.
It's geared towards a casual playthrough to experience the overworld and story once. and yes the game should work well for especially that audience they won't notice what's missing because they usually just rush through the game anyway.
There where interviews in wich gamefreak even said that majority of their audience rushes through the game finishes the game as fast as possible meaning that even ingame non postgame content is usually skipped anyway. Why create content that is not going to be used anyway. wich in sword & shield means very linear and small routes and towns that are holly wood film studio's with barely any spots that one can enter. It's efficient I'll give them that. it has never been that simple especially as far as the routes/ dungeons go
The problem with a game being that much bought and in wich the majoairty of the audience is very casual is that allot of the audience usually doesnt play all the content. a fraction in most cases.
If where going to say dragon quest XI or xenoblade chronicles 90% + of those buyers will pretty much use all the game content while with pokemon even with huge games as heartgold soulsilver & black & white 2 90% would just play the bare minimum. and touch barely anything of what those games have to offer.
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Dragalge
"Orange" Magical Girl
The SWSH models are actually built from scratch because iirc they tried to import the other ones over but ran into some problems with how the textures looked awkward in the game.
@DaddyOak
Agree to disagree, with the exception of the Exp Share. That was geared towards a more casual audience.
As for people rushing through the games, that's such a lame excuse by Game Freak to not put in more content. For example, I've spent over 2000 hours playing Pokemon X. Shiny hunting and battling. Over 600 hours so far playing Pokemon Moon. And it wasn't until over 500 hours that I went and battled the Elite 4. Was shiny hunting and breeding and leveling up my team.
Agree to disagree, with the exception of the Exp Share. That was geared towards a more casual audience.
As for people rushing through the games, that's such a lame excuse by Game Freak to not put in more content. For example, I've spent over 2000 hours playing Pokemon X. Shiny hunting and battling. Over 600 hours so far playing Pokemon Moon. And it wasn't until over 500 hours that I went and battled the Elite 4. Was shiny hunting and breeding and leveling up my team.
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DaddyOak
Well-Known Member
when I was collecting mainly ds and gameboy games and buying sets for cheap to find certain titles wich arent really sold in stores or very pricy 2nd hand.
If I'm looking at older games. I have had plenty of 2nd hand copies wich had maybe 4 gyms completed sometimes 8 gyms. kids who played the game back in the day are the majority that buy the games
I have rarely seen even 8 gyms completed. I wouldnt say that it's an excuse by gamefreak since their core audience mainly play through the 8 gyms or not even finish it. highly doubt newer games would be any different. In those few cases you can strike gold with people who did invested time into it with event pokemon or bred pokemon and such.
this is from pokemon red towards pokemon black & white from what i've seen. also most very casual people for pokemon games only really remember the gyms or the box legendary. kids losing their attention is nowadays even more noticable thanks to phones. Also you've got to imagine being a game developer in japan. those interviews aren't just an excuse. those kids are the largest chunk of their income.
You think gacha games and mobile games are crazy in the west? in Japan the gacha and less money hungry mobile gaming market dominates people standing in long lines for that stuff. It's absolutely crazy over there.
Considering most effort was put into the gym leaders this time around routes and cities are empty bar bones post game plus the whole dexit and the removal of moves etc etc. not to mention grapical issues and even messups like a mouse cursor in the credits I think It's pretty accurate in what gamefreak invested their time in for what the very casual audience wants.
they threw a few small bones with the quality of life changes for those smaller less noticable extra sales for the older fans to also lure those in.
casual audience needs new gen pokemon, new gym leaders box legendary maybe a new battle gimmick and your done. Gamefreak did that plus some extra attention to the gymleaders in particular the main part that most very casual people only play while ignoring the rest.
Yep. And it is not a good sign of things to come.
But it is an excuse in terms of not putting more in, even though there are those kinds of fans there. Quality shouldn't be sacrificed.
But it is an excuse in terms of not putting more in, even though there are those kinds of fans there. Quality shouldn't be sacrificed.
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Mr.Munchlax
Great Ball Rank Trainer
When I saw the first Sword & Shield trailer back in February, I went into these games expecting Game Freak would have a few bugs & we probably won’t get the perfect Pokémon Switch game until the last game for Gen 9 comes out. Whenever Game Freak switches to a new console, their first game in the series has lots of problems while the last one shows they’re now comfortable with the system
DaddyOak
Well-Known Member
are you sure?
pokemon gold & silver on gameboy color where straight up improvements with 2 whole regions.
Pokemon ruby & sapphire brought a ton of new stuff and where most definitely not flawed games. also some of the most interesting puzzles in pokemon period. .
Pokemon diamon & pearl brought a ton of new interesting stuff to the table plus a huge region with nice dungeons such as mt coronet. also underground. also wifi + battle revolution for even better online battles. wich is compatible with the entire ds lineup. only gen 5 was excluded
I could go on with those first gen titles on the new system but i won't It's not comparable especially not with sword & shield. those games where actually solid.
it's only since the 3ds era that we had one lesser gen to start things off with and even than X & Y brought us the beloved mega evolutions and didnt slaughter the pokedex/ usuable pokemon moves etc. let alone messups such as n64 trees or mouse cursors in the credits + they where actually tranferring to 3d at the time actually a reason to cut down on stuff and I'd argue that sword & shield did far worse stuff than what X & Y did.
I'd say sword & shield is in a league of it's own in terms of first new gen games
Also technically they already did have experience on the console
Do people forget pokemon lets go pikachu and eevee. These are considered main line games pokemon games by the devs these are just facts. so sword & shield arent even games when the developers started out on a new console.
Pokegirl Fan~
Liko>>>>>Ash
The games really need another back to the basics kind of game without any new battle gimmicks imo. Its getting just as bad as Yugioh with all of their summoning gimmicks. It feels like they're putting too much focus onto those and less on the actual story and post game content imo.
Mr.Munchlax
Great Ball Rank Trainer
While they’re not as bad as the problems Sword & Shield had, I remember people complaining about the first games for the first four generations for various flaws:
- Gen 1- hundreds of glitches
- Gen 2- They may have put in two regions, but you couldn’t get a lot of pokémon or items until Kanto & they didn’t feel that complete until Crystal came out (HGSS easily shows this since it was a mix of both games)
- Gen 3- loss of moving sprites, unable to transfer Pokémon from Gens 1-2, & a lack of postgame
- Gen 4- lack of postgame and some people complained about how big Sinnoh was
DaddyOak
Well-Known Member
Gen 1 glitches arent always a bad thing nowdays and even back than people loved to abuse glitches that was fun. withouth those glitches gen 1 is far less interesting
Those glitches even give us stuff that got cut out like that the actual champion was supposed to be proffesor oak. with a full team wich you can fight. or ofcourse to abuse the system and catch mew wich is otherwise only available by a local event.
Gen 2. that's very minor stuff. not to mention that especially heartgold & soulsilver might be the best games in the entire series. so much to do in those games.
gen 3 lack of postgame you cant be serious. had the most interesting puzzles and region in the entire series. lack of post game is not a thing in gen 3. also small things as pokeblocks and berries in the whole overworld.
gen 4 had tons of stuff to do even withouth postgame that's not a problem at all. tons of hidden stuff aswell such as rotom in the haunted house spirit tomb with they odd key stone. not to mention ghosts in the house as a small easter egg that doesnt provide anything to the story. sinnoh is full of secrets. sinnoh brought a ton of interesting stuff to the table not to mention the best competitive meta. there wasnt any shortage of stuff to do. platinum solved it with tons of postgame but this gen didnt come anything short.
Mr.Munchlax
Great Ball Rank Trainer
That’s what people said. When looking at Ruby & Sapphire specifically, people complained about a lack of a postgame due to only unlocking the Battle Tower & not being able to do another adventure like how you were able to return to Kanto Gen 2. Future Gen 3 titles improved this with the Sevii Islands in FRLG & the Battle Frontier in Emerald, but I easily remember how people complained about how Ruby & Sapphire has a lousy postgame
Plus, a lot of fans didn’t really care about stuff like contests, puzzles, berries, secret bases, etc. All they seemed to care about was not being able to transfer their Gens 1-2 pokémon
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