Why doesnt Serena get a special episode?

[Epicocity]

Yeah, I get the point of her character, I am one of the few that get. But they took so long. They did should have made something like this:

XY014-17 - Camp arc
XY022 - Pancham capture
XY030 - First showcase(lost)
XY035 - second pokémon capture
XY046 - second showcase(lost)
XY060 - Braixen’s evolution
XY066 - third showcase(win)
XY070 - third pokémon capture
XY082 - fourth showcase(lost)
XY085 - pokémon evolution
XY088 - fourth pokémon capture
XY090 - fifth showcase(win)
XY0108 - sixth showcase(win)

That more or less ignores her character trait. XY 1, 2 and 7 show that Serena has a problem with committing to something and getting motivated. To have her therefore make a decision just 14 episodes in, a mere 7 episodes after she joins removes that entire trait. It more or less proves what I said about people more wanting Serena to develop the way they wanted her to, rather than the way she did, particularly since her conflict is largely internal. Besides, it's kind of obvious they'd have wanted more Showcases but got blindsided and had to make sure everything was done in that last year while still being a marketing show.

Actually the depression arc was Dawn’s strongest development. In contrast to May and Serena the writers had no problem allowing people to outclass her constantly. May appearing was the finale of Dawn’s Depression arc which allowed her to move on strive from there on out.

Perhaps I misworded: if DP had ended at episode 40 Dawn wouldn't be developed well because being in the middle of the depression arc has no payoff until May. It's hard to say she developed from that, or rather that her development had meaning, until the Wallace Cup. Not that the depression arc wasn't important (because it was), but that just stopping in the middle of it makes her, relatively, equally as developed as Serena at that point, and that a Serena 100 episodes in would have more development than a Dawn in the middle of her depression. Apples to apples, it's still a hard judgment call since Dawn still had 100 episodes left, largely developed as a trainer/Coordinator than a character after the Wallace Cup, and was done with the end of the Grand Festival, while Serena got focus through the Master Class, developing her character more, and that development lasted through to the final episode (and yes, it did).

Both are good, but I don't think we can compare them on a "how many episodes" basis. It's the same reason we can't fully compare Ash's quest when his first gym battles in XY and BW were in their 6th episodes, while DP was the 18th. It's just not a like comparison.

 

[Jeal]

That more or less ignores her character trait. XY 1, 2 and 7 show that Serena has a problem with committing to something and getting motivated. To have her therefore make a decision just 14 episodes in, a mere 7 episodes after she joins removes that entire trait. It more or less proves what I said about people more wanting Serena to develop the way they wanted her to, rather than the way she did, particularly since her conflict is largely internal. Besides, it's kind of obvious they'd have wanted more Showcases but got blindsided and had to make sure everything was done in that last year while still being a marketing show.

Ok, so episode 27-30 camp arc. How about that?

 

[Epicocity]

Ok, so episode 27-31 camp arc. How about that?

Flip flopping the summer camp and Korrina could work, sure, but I'm just saying that regardless of what one wanted it to be, her character needed that space to show it. Otherwise it would have merely been an Informed Attribute that she gave up easily and was indecisive. By taking so long and trying so many things, it showed us that fact. Some may not like it, of course, but that was clearly the intent.

 

[Jeal]

Flip flopping the summer camp and Korrina could work, sure, but I'm just saying that regardless of what one wanted it to be, her character needed that space to show it. Otherwise it would have merely been an Informed Attribute that she gave up easily and was indecisive. By taking so long and trying so many things, it showed us that fact. Some may not like it, of course, but that was clearly the intent.

Problem is that during these 40 episodes she almost got no focus. Maybe if she had more focus episodes in this period, people would care less about her lack of goal.

 

[Rajas]

Problem is that during these 40 episodes she almost got no focus. Maybe if she had more focus episodes in this period, people would care less about her lack of goal.

Actually a lot ignore people don't really care about her lack of goal as you put it because they understood why she didn't have one for so long and even just tried random things at times to find what she liked. Was it risky putting a more realistic spin on a character for once in Pokémon? Maybe so but it was effective in making her relatable to both new and older fans. There are tons of ppl who appreciate being able to relate to a character who was pushed on to one path against their will due to a perceived lack of steel by their parents. It's actually highly unrealistic that everyone would have this set plan of what they wanted to do especially Serena and the way they illustrated her life before she finally chose to leave home. She rarely left Vaniville Town and that showed when she didn't know about much outside of Rhyhorn Racing, in fact one could even say she was on a near even plane with Ash being foreign to most of the Kalos customs etc.
To me, after showing her stuck in such a position for so long and afterward putting in the effort to show how much she disliked what her mother was forcing her to do, it would be weird if she just jumped on something within the first leg of their journey. Even the Pokevison, the baking and the summer camp events she did before deciding to try and become a performer were stepping stones to helping her figure out her strengths. Even the failed attempts at fishing, when she helped Ash train for the Rhyhorn Race and actually understood it better helped her to realize her outlook on things were one dimensional.
Anyways, going further into this possibly makes no sense because she's a vilified character on this Forum by most people and that won't change. Don't use this consensus to make you assume the majority had an issue with her goal being discovered late because it wasn't an issue for a lot of ppl.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

That more or less ignores her character trait. XY 1, 2 and 7 show that Serena has a problem with committing to something and getting motivated. To have her therefore make a decision just 14 episodes in, a mere 7 episodes after she joins removes that entire trait. It more or less proves what I said about people more wanting Serena to develop the way they wanted her to, rather than the way she did, particularly since her conflict is largely internal. Besides, it's kind of obvious they'd have wanted more Showcases but got blindsided and had to make sure everything was done in that last year while still being a marketing show.



Perhaps I misworded: if DP had ended at episode 40 Dawn wouldn't be developed well because being in the middle of the depression arc has no payoff until May. It's hard to say she developed from that, or rather that her development had meaning, until the Wallace Cup. Not that the depression arc wasn't important (because it was), but that just stopping in the middle of it makes her, relatively, equally as developed as Serena at that point, and that a Serena 100 episodes in would have more development than a Dawn in the middle of her depression. Apples to apples, it's still a hard judgment call since Dawn still had 100 episodes left, largely developed as a trainer/Coordinator than a character after the Wallace Cup, and was done with the end of the Grand Festival, while Serena got focus through the Master Class, developing her character more, and that development lasted through to the final episode (and yes, it did).

Both are good, but I don't think we can compare them on a "how many episodes" basis. It's the same reason we can't fully compare Ash's quest when his first gym battles in XY and BW were in their 6th episodes, while DP was the 18th. It's just not a like comparison.

Oh okay, fair point. Although I wouldn't say Serena developed as a character during the MC. Her twisting her wrist was a nice nod at her refusing to give up but that was more as a conclusion to a trait we've known she's had since the beginning of the series. Her realising what made Aria superior than her was again more so developing her to be a better performer. In my opinion the MC just showcased how much she's changed instead of her actually doing ANY changing to her. If that makes any sense. Which in my opinion made the MC episodes one of the better episodes of XY.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Do the writers know what to do with Serene outside of AmourShipping?

 

[Epicocity]

Oh okay, fair point. Although I wouldn't say Serena developed as a character during the MC. Her twisting her wrist was a nice nod at her refusing to give up but that was more as a conclusion to a trait we've known she's had since the beginning of the series. Her realising what made Aria superior than her was again more so developing her to be a better performer. In my opinion the MC just showcased how much she's changed instead of her actually doing ANY changing to her. If that makes any sense. Which in my opinion made the MC episodes one of the better episodes of XY.

The Master Class is like the end of one road for Serena and the opening of another. It ends the road that is her developing the trait of never wanting to give up and sticking with a decision to the end, but opened up the road the road that was realizing what she lacked in that she never gave to others and only received, wanting to change that (which she did by helping Mairin in the Flare arc over anything else), eventually helping her realize her deep desire to see people smile and that is what a Kalos Queen does. But we won't open that can of worms again. Needless for me to say, I personally find Serena and Dawn are two of the better developed characters.

 

[Rajas]

Do the writers know what to do with Serene outside of AmourShipping?

The majority of her character had nothing to do with Amourshipping. Her feelings for Ash did help to inspire her at times but nearly every choice she made was for her own dreams. It's why she's in Hoenn by herself looking to improve as a performer.

 

[DatsRight]

Problem is that during these 40 episodes she almost got no focus. Maybe if she had more focus episodes in this period, people would care less about her lack of goal.

It wasn't just a minimal amount of centre focus episodes but the aforementioned problem that Serena didn't stick out as much as a supporting character, so when the plot wasn't about her she kinda ended up fading into the background, compared to say, Dawn who could often bounce off the other cast members better or find stuff to do even if she wasn't the star, not to mention Pokemon such as Piplup who quite easily garnered attention.

I remember this being a reason people liked Dawn in BW, since while the lack of contests meant Dawn wasn't doing too much as a centre fold, a lot of people liked her and Piplup's chemistry with the Unova team. (Even better since she wasn't stuck with TR or Brock at their most stale).

 

[LilligantLewis]

Actually a lot ignore people don't really care about her lack of goal as you put it because they understood why she didn't have one for so long and even just tried random things at times to find what she liked. Was it risky putting a more realistic spin on a character for once in Pokémon? Maybe so but it was effective in making her relatable to both new and older fans. There are tons of ppl who appreciate being able to relate to a character who was pushed on to one path against their will due to a perceived lack of steel by their parents. It's actually highly unrealistic that everyone would have this set plan of what they wanted to do especially Serena and the way they illustrated her life before she finally chose to leave home. She rarely left Vaniville Town and that showed when she didn't know about much outside of Rhyhorn Racing, in fact one could even say she was on a near even plane with Ash being foreign to most of the Kalos customs etc.
To me, after showing her stuck in such a position for so long and afterward putting in the effort to show how much she disliked what her mother was forcing her to do, it would be weird if she just jumped on something within the first leg of their journey. Even the Pokevison, the baking and the summer camp events she did before deciding to try and become a performer were stepping stones to helping her figure out her strengths. Even the failed attempts at fishing, when she helped Ash train for the Rhyhorn Race and actually understood it better helped her to realize her outlook on things were one dimensional.
Anyways, going further into this possibly makes no sense because she's a vilified character on this Forum by most people and that won't change. Don't use this consensus to make you assume the majority had an issue with her goal being discovered late because it wasn't an issue for a lot of ppl.

First of all, I had no issue while it was happening (the first year of XY when she was taking a long time to decide) because at the time I didn't know how long the generation would last (it could have been 4 years, I thought, and in fact I thought it would be based on how slowly they were developing her arc) and at the time I didn't know how rushed her actual wins and arc conclusion would be.

All 3 of her wins and her Master Class loss happened during the span of just one Ash badge.

From XY080-XY113, she won 3 Princess Keys and competed and got 2nd in the Master Class Showcase.

During that same span of episodes Ash won one badge, just 1/8 of his XY journey. Her whole quest start to finish happened during 1/8 of Ash's. That's the issue I have with Serena. Not the first year when she was still deciding. The issue is that the actual meat of the arc was totally rushed.

 

[DatsRight]

That was the recurring problem with the show pre-SM. If they were lucky the protagonists spent about 10% doing their actual competition arc where the meat of their niches and development were shown off. The rest was usually spent on fillers where they spent most of their time being dragged along a COTD's dilemma or easily defeating TR or some other antagonist a four year old couldn't lose to. And this is only counting the companions lucky enough to even get an arc.

Not a whole lot of stories were character-driven on the twerps' behalf and even when they were they had a habit of being rather repetitive. Hell XY Ash himself, the main protagonist, got stuck in this formula, just that exception, his gym and rival matches, were considered quality enough to redeem him. SM Ash, who battles even less, would likely be considered even worse if he was stuck doing COTD/TR plots all the time, but instead he gets whole stories to himself and interacting with the other protagonists on a regular basis.

I suppose if they amped up Serena's characterisation like they did Ash, she could fit SM's slice of life format in a return cameo.

 

[Epicocity]

First of all, I had no issue while it was happening (the first year of XY when she was taking a long time to decide) because at the time I didn't know how long the generation would last (it could have been 4 years, I thought, and in fact I thought it would be based on how slowly they were developing her arc) and at the time I didn't know how rushed her actual wins and arc conclusion would be.

All 3 of her wins and her Master Class loss happened during the span of just one Ash badge.

From XY080-XY113, she won 3 Princess Keys and competed and got 2nd in the Master Class Showcase.

During that same span of episodes Ash won one badge, just 1/8 of his XY journey. Her whole quest start to finish happened during 1/8 of Ash's. That's the issue I have with Serena. Not the first year when she was still deciding. The issue is that the actual meat of the arc was totally rushed.

That's sort of why I'm saying we can't quite quantify it. Like, yes, it was just one badge, but that still took 1/3 of the series from first win to Master Class (and even then, that discounts her first Showcase, which is rather unfair, all things considered). And I don't think that would have changed if they had more time. Perhaps they would have put more Showcases in to show, say, Jessie winning her Princess Keys or Shauna or Miette but they had little time to do so. I honestly believe they thought they'd have 4 years, or at least 3.5, but they didn't and had to condense it down. Not to say it wasn't a bit rushed, but nothing extra episodes wouldn't have fixed.

 

[DatsRight]

There wasn't any real change ups in the showcases they had anyway, suggesting it wasn't just a case of compressing progression. Substance was avoided when opportunities were perfectly open even in the minimal time left, they had the protagonists talk all the way through Aria's performance for example and there was TONS of filler they could have added another showcase or even just a brief cameo of one of the rivals winning a key like they did for some of the contests.

Adding a match or two where Serena was actually outperformed would have humanised her a little and gave her rivals more substance, but as much complaint seemed to be with the showcases they DID have not being developed. Serena had five performances where nothing was spruced up, I get the feeling if they had more time, it would have just been six or seven of the same.

There were definitely some bland contests (especially in AG) but the key ones tended to be enjoyed for good rivals and interactions and performances. If you stripped them down to the most important ones like they did the showcases you'd still likely get a halfway decent arc.

 

[Epicocity]

There wasn't any real change ups in the showcases they had anyway, suggesting it wasn't just a case of compressing progression. Substance was avoided when opportunities were perfectly open even in the minimal time left, they had the protagonists talk all the way through Aria's performance for example and there was TONS of filler they could have added another showcase or even just a brief cameo of one of the rivals winning a key like they did for some of the contests.

Adding a match or two where Serena was actually outperformed would have humanised her a little and gave her rivals more substance, but as much complaint seemed to be with the showcases they DID have not being developed. Serena had five performances where nothing was spruced up, I get the feeling if they had more time, it would have just been six or seven of the same.

There were definitely some bland contests (especially in AG) but the key ones tended to be enjoyed for good rivals and interactions and performances. If you stripped them down to the most important ones like they did the showcases you'd still likely get a halfway decent arc.

Okay, I'm tired of the same rhetoric from you despite people disproving some of your points, so I'll just leave one final thought on the matter towards you:
1) Pokemon is, first and foremost, a marketing show. This means they need to find a way to showcase every Pokemon in some meaningful way. It means, loathe as we are to admit it, fillers are necessary. They can't just take them out and replace them with a plot episode. It just doesn't work that way.

2) Aria's performance was never about her performance. It was pretty clearly stated. Would it have been cool to see? Yes. However, the point wasn't how skilled she was but what she gave to the audience that Serena did not. It wasn't how technically impressive your performance was. The audience couldn't care about that at all.

3) Which leads to this point: being outperformed means little. That was the point of the audience vote in Showcases. You can hate the setup but is an average viewer that votes going to be looking at "ooh, that's a tricky move". No, they're gonna think "Wow, I really enjoyed this performance!" regardless of the technicalities.

4) "Outperformed" also means someone not making a mistake when you make a mistake. Serena made a mistake with Fennekin. She made a mistake with Eevee. Others did not. Shauna and Jessie won. There are definitions of it.

5) "Where nothing was spruced up". Go back and watch her first performance in XY 80. Now go watch her final performance in XYZ 20. There is a large gulf of difference. Is the base the same? Yes. But it was clearly meant to be. In the end, she evolves her performance to the point that it has shades of early performances, but is vastly different. In this case, you're looking at it more from the perspective of boiling it down. Just as anyone can take a story and boil it down to something that sounds exactly like something else, you're doing that here and ignoring the specifics that made it what it was.

In the end, though, nothing I say here matters because you rank Serena on this strange scale where things unimportant for her character arc need to be treated as important for her to be successful, so that's all I'll leave with here, and thank you very much.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

First of all, I had no issue while it was happening (the first year of XY when she was taking a long time to decide) because at the time I didn't know how long the generation would last (it could have been 4 years, I thought, and in fact I thought it would be based on how slowly they were developing her arc) and at the time I didn't know how rushed her actual wins and arc conclusion would be.

All 3 of her wins and her Master Class loss happened during the span of just one Ash badge.

From XY080-XY113, she won 3 Princess Keys and competed and got 2nd in the Master Class Showcase.

During that same span of episodes Ash won one badge, just 1/8 of his XY journey. Her whole quest start to finish happened during 1/8 of Ash's. That's the issue I have with Serena. Not the first year when she was still deciding. The issue is that the actual meat of the arc was totally rushed.

This right here. One can argue that Showcases weren’t that bad but I would laugh at anyone who tells me that it wasn’t rushed. Maybe “outperformed” isn’t the correct terminology but seeing Serena only lose TWICE and it being due to her own Pokémon mistakes....gives the illusion that had her Pokémon not trip she would of won her 1st and 3rd Showcases she’s competed in. Miette was her main rival yet we’ve never seen Serena lose to her once. Granted the MC episodes were nicely written it was a little to much to rush her 3rd Princess key along with it in a spans of episodes. We should of gotten to see Serena lose more and see other peoples performances during them instead of just hers. Sinnoh gave us 8 Contests along with Hoenn as well.

 

[DatsRight]

Okay, I'm tired of the same rhetoric from you despite people disproving some of your points, so I'll just leave one final thought on the matter towards you:
1) Pokemon is, first and foremost, a marketing show. This means they need to find a way to showcase every Pokemon in some meaningful way. It means, loathe as we are to admit it, fillers are necessary. They can't just take them out and replace them with a plot episode. It just doesn't work that way.

2) Aria's performance was never about her performance. It was pretty clearly stated. Would it have been cool to see? Yes. However, the point wasn't how skilled she was but what she gave to the audience that Serena did not. It wasn't how technically impressive your performance was. The audience couldn't care about that at all.

3) Which leads to this point: being outperformed means little. That was the point of the audience vote in Showcases. You can hate the setup but is an average viewer that votes going to be looking at "ooh, that's a tricky move". No, they're gonna think "Wow, I really enjoyed this performance!" regardless of the technicalities.

4) "Outperformed" also means someone not making a mistake when you make a mistake. Serena made a mistake with Fennekin. She made a mistake with Eevee. Others did not. Shauna and Jessie won. There are definitions of it.

5) "Where nothing was spruced up". Go back and watch her first performance in XY 80. Now go watch her final performance in XYZ 20. There is a large gulf of difference. Is the base the same? Yes. But it was clearly meant to be. In the end, she evolves her performance to the point that it has shades of early performances, but is vastly different. In this case, you're looking at it more from the perspective of boiling it down. Just as anyone can take a story and boil it down to something that sounds exactly like something else, you're doing that here and ignoring the specifics that made it what it was.

In the end, though, nothing I say here matters because you rank Serena on this strange scale where things unimportant for her character arc need to be treated as important for her to be successful, so that's all I'll leave with here, and thank you very much.

People were talking about the rushed nature of the showcases and I gave my theory. Unless there's some other factor to what can be considered 'rushed' that's all I have on the matter. Can you say what could have been added if they had two or three more showcases or spread them out through a larger course of the series? Would it have really made a lick of difference besides a couple more episodes Serena was the centre fold?

I get I rant on, but you can't accuse every complaint I have towards Serena as being tautological and "mean", especially when others are making the same queries and I'm just adding to them.

 

[LilligantLewis]

Granted the MC episodes were nicely written it was a little to much to rush her 3rd Princess key along with it in a spans of episodes.

At the very least, the Master Class Showcase should have been after Snowbelle City. Then, episodes from XY&Z21-31 could have had the same plots they did, even the fillers, except they could have also had some small scenes here and there of Serena practicing for the Master Class Showcase.

 

[Epicocity]

At the very least, the Master Class Showcase should have been after Snowbelle City. Then, episodes from XY&Z21-31 could have had the same plots they did, even the fillers, except they could have also had some small scenes here and there of Serena practicing for the Master Class Showcase.

That's where I feel the year compression hurt them. They probably wanted to do more with it (showing practicing, other Showcases, etc.) , but thanks to there being a year and everything they had to put in it, things just got cut. The Master Class probably even would have been a more evenly paced 3 episodes if they hadn't been forced to speed everything up.

Though, of course, it's also confusing Serena's goal development with her character development, given that they did not conclude at the same time, which I think leads to some erroneous assumptions regarding her character.

 

[DatsRight]

Training was pretty nondescript in XY and most previous series (besides maybe DP). I remember too many instances of Ash's lot training were just spamming a move in the air or flexing, and rarely did it lead to any substance of improvement, it just seemed to be some token sign of proof they were working to make their Pokemon better. We already had moments of this for Serena, I don't think anymore would have proved much. I'd have taken quality over quantity.

I feel like the branch episode could have been an ideal training episode for Braixen's Fire Spin instead of having her miraculously learn it against TR like nearly every other pre-SM boost. *sigh* Sans the butt shaking I suppose.