The anime seems to take turns trying more plot driven or character driven premises. I think BW was a point they noticed the formula was taking over and tried to give the protagonists more vibrancy (if sometimes in the wrong ways). SM is going an even more extreme direction with that after XY similarly was went back to being more plot and formula reliant.
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Why doesnt Serena get a special episode?
- Thread starter janejane6178
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The anime seems to take turns trying more plot driven or character driven premises. I think BW was a point they noticed the formula was taking over and tried to give the protagonists more vibrancy (if sometimes in the wrong ways). SM is going an even more extreme direction with that after XY similarly was went back to being more plot and formula reliant.
Jeal
Well-Known Member
You're right, people have bias against Serena. During the XY days, I've always seen everyone criticizing her for taking so long to catch her second pokemon, still I don't see anyone critizing the SM girls for this.
LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
Actually there's a lot of criticism of it in the "How do you think the writers will write the 8th gen?" thread.
Jeal
Well-Known Member
But I'm sure it's not the same as in Serena's criticism. Serena was hated for that, SM girls don't.
Have you checked out the backlash over the Dewpider episode?
Both Serena and the SM girls recurrently get flak over being inactive and not getting any new development for long periods of time, to the point a lot of fans have given up hope on the girls getting anything this series. The only one that gets something of a free pass at times is Lillie, due to her character arc concerning her phobia (though I could argue Lillie does also contribute a bit more regularly due to also being the smart girl).
Both Serena and the SM girls recurrently get flak over being inactive and not getting any new development for long periods of time, to the point a lot of fans have given up hope on the girls getting anything this series. The only one that gets something of a free pass at times is Lillie, due to her character arc concerning her phobia (though I could argue Lillie does also contribute a bit more regularly due to also being the smart girl).
Jeal
Well-Known Member
No, Serena got flak over being inactive and not getting any development, SM girls don't. I checked the Dewpider episode thread, people was disappointed, they don't hated Lana for this. If it was a Serena episode in early XY, I'm sure there would be several posts hating on her.
AznKei
Dawn & Chloe by ddangbi
Let me make myself clear, I loathed Ash hogging the spotlights due of his main character status, I'm tired to see him pursuing a goal where it's pretty certain that he's going to fail after 20 years. That's why I'm more interested about the companions than him, cheering the underdogs aren't an issue for me, and you aren't going to change my mind about this.
I like Serena because of her determination to deal with threatening situations, pursuing her professional goal on her own and taking care of her Pokemons, despite not showing as often during the XY(Z) series imo. I'm not interested about her relationship with Ash and I'm pretty certain the writers pushed this hard as an excuse to make herself relevant after they rushed her goal. Yes she interacted with Miette, Bonnie, Shauna, etc., but to me their interactions just represented a fraction compared the amount of spotlights Ash got during the whole series. And her doing girly things aren't a concern to me.
If the writers don't want to do a special or cameo to her, then that's fine to me, as I already made a fan project and I'm pretty satisfied about it. You see, I didn't trust them ever since XY(Z) ended anyways. To me, it's just my way to tell them that they shouldn't fool the fans thinking they couldn't make her professional goals interesting without Ash influence.
I remember people complaining she didn't do much in Season One, but it seems of about the same level as what the SM girls are getting, and unlike the latter, some think she has been vindicated. I don't see a lot of hatred outright over her slow paced beginning, at least relatively, just annoyance.
There was quite a lot of irritance over the recent double bill with Lana and Mallow, with several fans complaining their episodes were boring and didn't do much for them (and this isn't my opinion so I'm not just trying to place my own views as fact), the fact the following line of episodes focused squarely on Ash and Team Rocket with no companions whatsoever was better received and contained a wider amount of plot progression only exasperated it.
I see tons of posts in the SM episode/speculation threads complaining the girls have barely done anything and spend way too many episodes in the background compared to the guys, to the point some are now predicting they won't get any new Pokemon (compared to XY S1 Serena who at least caught her secondary).
Jeal
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but here is the difference: Serena was hated for this, while about SM girls is just disappointment. People still like them, or at least they are neutral about their characters.
AshxSatoshi
Ice Aurelia
I do not dislike Serena for her simply not doing nothing for almost half of XY, what I do find annoying and borderline weird is how people attempt to justify this by claiming “she was trying new things until she found her goal” like for example fishing. This is dumb to me personally because it’s clear the writers were not leading her in no direction until Showcases were introduced. And I’m not even going to get into Showcases but yeah there are way more reasons to dislike Serena than her doing nothing for almost 60 episodes. And even I admit I’m tired of Lana and definitely of Mallow. However what we can’t deny is they did way more during their first 50 episodes than Serena did barring Mallow.
I think the main difference for why Serena was viewed differently for her issues than the SM girls is because Serena was the female player character in Pokémon XY. I think viewers expected more of a player character than to simply be in the background. It also doesn't help that when she finally decided on a goal, her goal was... divisive to say the least.
Jeal
Well-Known Member
Well, her being a player character is a good point, but still is not a reason to hate her like this. Mallow and Lana's goals don't are amazing too.
AznKei
Dawn & Chloe by ddangbi
I think some people have a huge hatred about girly stuffs & girl-centric goals and it isn't limited to Serena. Lucky Chloe a fighter from the Tekken series suffered the same level of hate. I was surprised about it tbh, as I don't really question what people likes as they don't threat others, but I guess some of viewers had a higher standards/expectations about the show, saying stuffs like "these things don't belong in Pokemon", yet the producers/writers made them happen. I admit that the showcases were very lacking compared to equivalent goals shown from other animes.
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The problem stems more from the fact that the 'girly girls' tend to be rather inactive, or only take part in the action superficially (eg. only being in undercooked fights and competitions like TR beatdowns which few find interesting). They aren't brilliant at developing non-battling goals in the anime, so a lot of what they do has a habit of being a bit bare bones or dull, or somehow revolving around battling anyway which said characters are too inexperienced to make interesting or play into their niches.
Serena also suffered because she was in an action heavy series, one driven more by formula and plot than unique things the characters can do (she couldn't ditch TR or some sort of battle exercise taking over all her episodes). I could argue the SM girls, who aren't nearly as restricted by these problems, actually have less of an excuse to be inactive.
When the writing and formula doesn't befit for them to develop and shine, you can see why a lot of the more docile girls tend to be related to being dull and underdeveloped. Dawn and May were a bit feminine for example, but many thought the contests were one of the better developed quests in the series and since A LOT of episodes revolved around them, their characters were quite busy.
Serena also suffered because she was in an action heavy series, one driven more by formula and plot than unique things the characters can do (she couldn't ditch TR or some sort of battle exercise taking over all her episodes). I could argue the SM girls, who aren't nearly as restricted by these problems, actually have less of an excuse to be inactive.
When the writing and formula doesn't befit for them to develop and shine, you can see why a lot of the more docile girls tend to be related to being dull and underdeveloped. Dawn and May were a bit feminine for example, but many thought the contests were one of the better developed quests in the series and since A LOT of episodes revolved around them, their characters were quite busy.
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AznKei
Dawn & Chloe by ddangbi
Yeah, but AG & DP didn't push Ash as hard than XY & SM did imo, despite the 3rd wheels characters such as Brock, Cilan & Clemont didn't do much in general. That's my issue, if they could treat the pokegirls like that in the past, why they couldn't do it now. It's just unfair.
To be truthful, Ash hasn't really been pushed much more than he usually is, just they haven't used much of the spare time otherwise to work on the companions. Ash regularly has this number of Pokemon and battles by this point, if not more, just they've not stuffed in as many opportunities for the Pokegirl this time round. The majority of episodes this series have been wacky antics plots with the whole group.
The only times Ash has really stole the show are these handful of episodes he's isolated from the others, though these aren't in large amount. Hell the Oranguru episode (with Mallow) and the Poni Island episode (with Lillie and Gladion) and Z Ring quest episode (with Team Rocket) had similar cases with Ash mostly absent.
The only times Ash has really stole the show are these handful of episodes he's isolated from the others, though these aren't in large amount. Hell the Oranguru episode (with Mallow) and the Poni Island episode (with Lillie and Gladion) and Z Ring quest episode (with Team Rocket) had similar cases with Ash mostly absent.
satopi
Life doesn’t end, …it changes.
Ehhh, I feel like people are more frustrated at the fact that girls like say, Lana and Mallow aren't given enough character episodes and are seen as less important due to Ash, especially Ash and Lillie given important episode after important episode for themselves. It makes it feel like they're prioritized way more than them even though those characters have a lot more potential going for them. That and it's fresh to see someone other than Ash getting some well deserved spotlight when we know he's guaranteed spotlight every saga.
So to say, Serena is disliked for the fact that she barely did anything in the first half of XY while everyone is just disappointed in Lana and Mallow is simply masking the same problem but with different words because there were tons of people who wanted to see Serena shine but in a more interesting way. Just like there are tons of people who think that Mallow's character episodes are boring and filler just because she didn't catch another Pokemon or learn a new move when her goal IS being progressed. That can be compared to Serena trying out something new in the beginning until she had her breakout episode (episode 60) so at least she had that going for her. Trust me, there are some users who don't like Mallow for being a boring genki girl, forgetting that she had a good supporting role throughout the saga so far. Or what about Lana taking the Totem School Form Wishiwashi from Ash and missing the opportunity to catch Dewiper? We're already dealing with Lillie stealing Alolan Sandscrew from Ash!
So to say, Serena is disliked for the fact that she barely did anything in the first half of XY while everyone is just disappointed in Lana and Mallow is simply masking the same problem but with different words because there were tons of people who wanted to see Serena shine but in a more interesting way. Just like there are tons of people who think that Mallow's character episodes are boring and filler just because she didn't catch another Pokemon or learn a new move when her goal IS being progressed. That can be compared to Serena trying out something new in the beginning until she had her breakout episode (episode 60) so at least she had that going for her. Trust me, there are some users who don't like Mallow for being a boring genki girl, forgetting that she had a good supporting role throughout the saga so far. Or what about Lana taking the Totem School Form Wishiwashi from Ash and missing the opportunity to catch Dewiper? We're already dealing with Lillie stealing Alolan Sandscrew from Ash!
ESo to say, Serena is disliked for the fact that she barely did anything in the first half of XY while everyone is just disappointed in Lana and Mallow is simply masking the same problem but with different words because there were tons of people who wanted to see Serena shine but in a more interesting way. Just like there are tons of people who think that Mallow's character episodes are boring and filler just because she didn't catch another Pokemon or learn a new move when her goal IS being progressed. That can be compared to Serena trying out something new in the beginning until she had her breakout episode (episode 60) so at least she had that going for her. Trust me, there are some users who don't like Mallow for being a boring genki girl, forgetting that she had a good supporting role throughout the saga so far. Or what about Lana taking the Totem School Form Wishiwashi from Ash and missing the opportunity to catch Dewiper? We're already dealing with Lillie stealing Alolan Sandscrew from Ash!
I think there is also another problem for all these characters in that while they do have limelight episodes where they do things, they actually don't get to do a lot as supporting characters. One could argue they have a Team Mom role, but it's seen in limited doses and there's not a lot of times they get to demonstrate that through their Pokemon or abilities, besides cooking.
Even concerning her searching for a goal, Serena only had so many episodes revolved around it or developing her team, otherwise in cases where a supporting role was needed in some intuitive personality-strengthening way (eg. not something basic like stopping TR with one or two attacks), Clemont tended to take that role due to his smarts, or in some cases even Bonnie, since the fact she only had Dedenne and her own mischief sometimes made for humorous or inventive situations. Ironically Serena didn't even take the damsel in distress or 'Worf Effect' role very much since they didn't seem to like having her Pokemon lose or take hits too often compared to Clemont's (poor Bunnelby). Serena's one niche, performing, didn't really take some sort of character agency outside the actual showcases (her team had hints of a choreography based battle style, but never developed enough to become commonly useful, again they were rarely put in even handed enough battles to require them), which combined with how formulaic and action driven XY was, meant Serena didn't have quite as unique a function within the team as regularly. Even in more laid back scenes, the team got on too gently (besides maybe Bonnie who just got away with being a brat
) so Serena couldn't even take a non-physical role as the team heart/mediator.Disregarding her own agenda episodes, she was just the 'girl' of the team.
I could take that with a grain of salt, since it did at least mean that the series was SORT OF evened in spotlight with the companions, with Clemont getting a decent run in the first half before Serena's goal got established in the second.
The same sort of problem lingers on in SM. Some of the characters have some sort of distinction in role, even if it doesn't really come into play as often as it really could (eg. Lillie and Sophocles occasionally being the brains of the function), but out of them Lana and Mallow tend to suffer the most, and usually only get the scraps of involvement or reduced to cheerleaders, unless it's their actual limelight episode (and even there Mallow seems to keep getting eclipsed by another character like TR or her brother). Also keep in mind so far that Mallow has only had FOUR limelight episodes stretched through of 77 so far. Compare to Kiawe, whose only had THREE, but is regularly kept active due to his Alola knowledge and training with Ash, as well as his three Pokemon being regularly helpful in many group fiascos (that he is supposedly sharing the league arc with Ash would also mean his development throughout the series may also culminate in some satisfying way).
It is a shame, cases like the Pollosand or Celesteela episodes look like they're starting to get the hang of it but like Serena's cases, they're far too sporadic to keep them active.
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Slapstick-Olivia
Well-Known Member
I can understand, why people like Serena so much, as much as I can understand the people who dislike her.
I personally found her a very boring character, because she was a very, very passiv character. I would even say that she is one of the least memorable characters of this show. The only real thing that people will remember her, is of course, the shipping. The shipping is it, what mad her so popular in the first place. But besides that.... what else is there?
I sadly have to say, not so much. Serena really needed more than just shipping fanservice to push her as a character. She needed more interactions with other characters, more rivals, more friends, more family drama, conflicts with Ash and the other companions, some quirks, her own running gag, just something so that she could stood out a bit more from the crowd.
I said it before, but I'm saying it again, writing a special episode for such a passiv character is actually kinda hard. With out the shipping Serena is really one of the most forgettable characters of he whole anime series.
I personally found her a very boring character, because she was a very, very passiv character. I would even say that she is one of the least memorable characters of this show. The only real thing that people will remember her, is of course, the shipping. The shipping is it, what mad her so popular in the first place. But besides that.... what else is there?
I sadly have to say, not so much. Serena really needed more than just shipping fanservice to push her as a character. She needed more interactions with other characters, more rivals, more friends, more family drama, conflicts with Ash and the other companions, some quirks, her own running gag, just something so that she could stood out a bit more from the crowd.
I said it before, but I'm saying it again, writing a special episode for such a passiv character is actually kinda hard. With out the shipping Serena is really one of the most forgettable characters of he whole anime series.
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