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Why gen 7 Pokemon don't appeal to me.

Discussion in 'General Pokémon Discussion' started by MugoUrth, Dec 24, 2017.

  1. MugoUrth

    MugoUrth Bibarel's adorable.

    I've heard the genwunner comments before about how later Pokemon don't look like Pokemon and such. Frankly, I feel this has become true soley for 7th gen Pokemon.

    I loved the original Pokemon. They were simplistic and had lots of charm to their looks, calm and likeable personallities, and no one cared that a Pokemon was less than skinny back in the days. Over the years, it got more complex Pokemon, yet there were still designs that kept what made the old Pokemon so likeable, including designs that weren't too complex, Pokemon with calm, simplistic and likeable expressions, etc. There were plenty of faceless creatures and stick figures coming out over the years, but until now, that wasn't ALL there was.

    The Pokemon, especially the legendaries, are so overly complex to the point of being confusing, and even the simpler Pokemon lack that charm. Pokemon like Beware have such bland emotions to the point of being uninteresting. And I seriously cannot be the only one who liked less than skinny designs, and I hate this gen for the fact that those chubby characters are NO WHERE to be found this time around. The only real chubby Pokemon this gen is Guzzlord, and he feels like he was designed to INSULT people who love those kind of designs. Not to mention the plethora of stick-figure Pokemon and the fact that the maker felt the need to shoehorn them into defensive roles, like I really wanted a metagame where that was ALL I could use. I don't find stickfigure Pokemon cool. They're frail looking. I don't like characters that look frail, I like characters that look tanky, and there's nothing this gent that fills that niche aside from poorly designed inatimate objects with faces.

    Gen 5 had Pokemon I like, and I admit to having a soft spot for Emboar. Even gen 6 wasn't devoid of Pokemon I liked, including the incredibly fluffy Aromatisse with that hilariously suggestive cry. Gen 7 had nothing for me but a new version of Raticate and a giant, hulking meat tank with completely USELESS stats that feels borderline offensive. I also outright hate a lot of this gen's Pokemon. None of the starters appeal to me at all, I hate the tapus (with a slight exception for Bulu just because he's not the stickfigure the other tapus are) and this gen has my absolute least favorite Pokemon of all: Pheromosa. The first time I saw Pheromosa, I was like "WHAT THE **** IS THAT, KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!"

    And, what do you know, a big thing I hate about the reccent metagames is how hard it is to find anything other than stick-figures and faceless objects that are useful in the metagame. Pheromosa, for example, is incredibly overpowered, as are a lot of other stick-figure Pokemon. Everything I loved about previous gens... is gone in this one.

    I don't consider myself a genwunner, I just hate this gen. I look forward to next gen, but I hope it's not going to be the same deal. It can have stickfigures and overly-complicated hodgepodges, but it shouldn't just be ALL the next gen has.
     
  2. Cool Rafe

    Cool Rafe Cold & Anti-social

    Been a Pokémon player since the good ol' days of Red and Blue, and IMO, the designs of the gen 7 Pokémon are great to me. The only huge disappointment was the design of Incineroar, but to me it still looked very much like a Pokémon.
     
  3. PrinceOfFacade

    PrinceOfFacade Ghost-Type Master

    I personally find Gen 7 to have one of the best designed rosters in the series. Obviously there are some bad picks, but there aren't many, imo.

    I actually find Gen 1 to be one of the worst designed rosters, given the majority of the evolutions are merely rehashes of a single design. I do understand that it was the first gen, but given that the 39 pokemon they shelved for Gen 2 are boss as hell, clearly somebody dropped the ball with Gen 1, especially since the actual new pokemon in Gen 2 (152-210) also have a lot of questionable designs.

    For me, Gen 7 saw a great attention to detail, much like Gen 6, carving in minor pieces to create truly unique pokemon, even within an evolution line. Rowlett, Dartrix, and Decidueye each have very unique features, and I dare say they are among the most well designed starters in the entire series. Gen 7 contains such intricate designs that it may be the first generation where not a single pokemon is by default forgettable. Even though I hardly see Shiinotic, and I would never care to use it, its appearance makes it absolutely memorable, and I like it for that reason alone.

    In my most honest opinion, when it comes to design, Gen 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gen 1.
     
  4. MugoUrth

    MugoUrth Bibarel's adorable.

    Ugh, not this again.

    To add to the statement, no it's not. I hate how there was so little content compared to previous gens. Even gen 6 felt like there was more content. The only thing I did like was the fact that the villain group wasn't a generic misanthrope/animal lover demonization team like Aqua, Galactic, Plasma and Flare were. Really, nothing else this gen has appealed to me. I feel like Gen 4 was my absolute favorite gen, followed by Gen 3 for they had the most content. I also admire Magma for having one of the only pro-human villains I can think of.

    Also, even if you like the gen, you have to admit that it's not very diverse compared to previous gens. If you love those skinnier designs, fine, but for people who strongly dislike them, this gen has very little to offer as far as designs go.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  5. Sulfurian

    Sulfurian Well-Known Member

    Eh I wouldn't go that far about being a true fan. I think that most fans just give gen 7 a pass with a mix of "third versions existed before" or "it was a rush because of the 20th anniversary give them a break" and are waiting baby-doll-eyed for the switch trailer, completely indifferent to any problems of gen 7. Honestly not being a true fan right now is probably the best thing you could be all things considered.
     
  6. Weavy

    Weavy Usually silent

    Pokémon design is very subjective. A Pokémon one person might hate may be actually liked by someone else. But I'll never understand the "they don't look like Pokémon" argument. What is a Pokémon supposed to look like? There's no real answer, so that resort makes no sense.

    Personally, I like the gen 7 cast. I like how they're trying to make Pokémon designs more diverse and I'm OK with that. I'm even a big fan of the strange designs of the UBs because they wanted to try something different and I think it works very well with what they were going for with them.
     
  7. MugoUrth

    MugoUrth Bibarel's adorable.

    That's honestly what I hate about the gen, though, cause I feel the opposite's true with a lot of stick-figure Pokemon being in the gen without any real token chubby designs. I'm not counting Raticate cause it's just a redesign, and I'm also not counting the gen's Pikachu clone, as I think of it more as a ball design than actually chubby.
     
  8. Kuzehiko

    Kuzehiko Well-Known Member

    I agree.
    Good points.
     
  9. Sprinter1988

    Sprinter1988 Well-Known Member

    I can see what you are saying. While every generation has brought pokemon that I don't like the design of, I really feel that over time the ratio of new designs I like compared to dislike has really shifted. Since around Gen 4 the problem for me has been the legendary pokemon - over complicated or outright ugly and far too many of them. In fact the last legendary that I have really liked the design of is Darkrai. Since then I either hated them or just been completely indifferent towards them.
    Gen 7 compounded this by bringing in the Ultra Beasts. At a push I would say that I like Nihilego's design but that's it. The rest are hideous monstrosities.

    As for regular pokemon, I still like a fair few in Gen 7 (Decidueye, Primarina, Lycanroc, Passimian, Vikavolt, Tsareena, Lurantis, Mudsdale and Ribombee for example) and I find quite a few I really don't like the design of (Araquanid, Bruxish, Dhelmise, Gumshoos). And as for the Alolan forms, tbh, I only really like Sandshrew, Sandslash, Vulpix, Ninetales, Marowak, Raichu, Rattata and Meowth (8 out or 18) the rest... no. Just no.

    I think the problem with designs you don't like is that generations 6 and 7 introduced very few new pokemon, and that has the knock on effect of there appearing to be more and more worse pokemon being created than good ones. There are quite a few pokemon in Gen 5 and I really do not like the design of, but its ok because there are a load of ones that I do like to make up for them. Take Gen 6 - There are only three fully evolved water type pokemon introduced in that gen, and I don't like any of them (yes, I'm in that minority that thinks Greninja sucks). Compare that to Gen 5 - I not a fan of Seismitoad, Carracosta, Alomomola or Basculin, but that's fine because I do like Samurott, Simipour and Jellicent and Palpitoad. So what I'm saying is there were quite a few pokemon I don't like the look of in Gen 5, but it doesn't matter because there are enough pokemon there that each type does have pokemon that I like, so I don't notice the ones I dislike so much. For me, Gen 6 and Gen 7 have failed in that regard.
     
  10. Leonhart

    Leonhart Disney fanatic

    Gen VII is my least favorite installment of the franchise mainly due to the changes in the games, such as the removal of Gyms. The addition of Alolan form Gen 1 Pokemon irked me as well since they're just old Pokemon with a few aesthetic and type changes, which could've just been new species completely.
     
  11. MugoUrth

    MugoUrth Bibarel's adorable.

    I think I also hate the metagame for the fact that it's always the Pokemon I hate the most that become Uber Powerful: not Pokemon I like, not even Pokemon I tolerate, Pokemon I outright hate and won't use. The Tapus and Pheramosa (Also Toxipex and basically all of the Ultra Beasts but Guzzlord, who I actually thinks look cool, but wadayaknow, he sucks competitively!) are a huge example of this.
     
  12. Deadeye

    Deadeye H(a)unting...

    7th gen wasn't so bad design-wise... I had similar reaction to 5th gen (personal reason: too urban for my tastes although 1st gen had them too.. took me more time to warm up to that gen). As for downsides of 7th gen, I'd still gladly forget about Z-crystals and would be just as glad about reducing the amount of legendary/"special" Pokemon/UB's just so that 'regular' mons could shine more. I also wished they'd have added few more Alolan forms to old mons.
     
  13. Scammel

    Scammel Well-Known Member

    It's almost as if the UBs were deliberately designed to look strange and intimidating.

    Taste is subjective, but this is the strangest Pokémon design criticism I've ever come across. Is this a fat acceptance thing?

    That's why online communities have multiple tiers; you're catered for.

    FWIW, I consider Sun to be the second-best game in the series. It shouldn't have taken this long to get a game with a good difficulty curve and a story with even a modicum of emotional weight.
     
  14. MugoUrth

    MugoUrth Bibarel's adorable.

    Not really. The Tiers are basically just there to remind you how inferior your favorite Pokemon are. IMO, if it's not OU or higher, the Pokemon sucks competitively. Also, Smogon has yet, after all these years, to have a difinitive OU Doubles list.

    I think the story was the only thing I sort of liked this gen. The main villain wasn't a typical misanthrope demonization like Lysandre and Cyrus were, nor was she an animal lover demonization like N or Ghetsis. They actually went semi outside the box for the villainess's motive, which I'm kind of happy with.

    As for "Fat Acceptance," I'm one of the few that actually likes the big, fat and tanky looking guys, which is one of the reasons I wish they'd localize Dragon Quest Monster Joker 3, since Dragon Quest games tend to have a lot of those types of monsters.
     
  15. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    This is so shortsighted. Smogon tier lists are just not that accurate in showing how useful a pokémon truly is and Showdown follows trends. There are plenty of pokémon in 'lower tiers' that are perfectly viable to use if you know how to use them. Regice for instance is amazing. It counters Naganadel for instance, even if Naganadel runs Fire Blast, simply because Regice is that tanky on the special side. And Smogon banned Naganadel while Regice is PU. Assault Vest Regice is so incredibly tanky it does so well against any special attacker in the higher tiers to the point of almost countering it. Assault Vest Regice avoids a 3KO from Tapu Lele's Psychic for instance. Torkoal is RU, while it counters any physical Aegislash, and Smogon banned Aegislash. Hippowdon is UU, but it also counters any physical Aegislash. Mega Gyarados is BL but defeats any special Aegislash one-on-one with ease. But because people only look at the OU lists when building teams they don't come up with these kinds of counters and then say that stuff like Aegislash and Naganadel are overpowered. Naganadel was new and a lot of people wanted to try it out, so it appeared everywhere and people weren't adapted to it yet and start losing to it, so then they ban it before people even learn to adapt to it.

    Take a look at the Battle Spot singles, and compare it to the smogon singles. Pheromosa is a very good example, it's just far too frail, lacks great coverage (your primary STAB combination being resisted by 3 single types is just terrible for an offensive dual type), lacks a reliable fighting move, and lacks any sort of priority. Smogon banned it, and on Battle Spot singles it doesn't even make the top 30. Others:

    Mega Kangaskhan: 29th place, banned on Smogon
    Mega Gengar: 20th place, banned on Smogon
    Landorus-Incarnate: Not in top 30, banned on Smogon (still no idea why?)
    Mega Salamence: 16th place, banned on Smogon
    Mega Metagross: 9th place, banned on Smogon
    Mega Lucario: 21st place, banned on Smogon
    Naganadel: 10th place, banned on Smogon
    (Mega) Blaziken: 6th place, banned on Smogon
    Aegislash: 17th place, banned on Smogon

    The top 5 on the battle spot singles is composed of Mimikyu (place 1), Landorus-Therian (place 2), Charizard (place 3), Gyarados (place 4), and Tapu Koko (place 5), none of which are banned by Smogon. Gyarados isn't even OU according to smogon, yet on the battle spot it's more popular than Blaziken, Pheromosa, and Aegislash, supposedly overpowered pokémon. Hippowdon is place 8, above Mega Metagross, Aegislash, Mega Gengar, and several of these other things and Hippowdon isn't even OU. Porygon2 is 12th place and smogon places it in RU. Thundurus-Therian is 14th place, yet smogon places it in BL. The Smogon tiers just aren't always that accurate. The fact that there are different rules and battle mechanics between the actual game and showdown skews the results even more.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  16. Scammel

    Scammel Well-Known Member

    Regice is PU not because of an explicit decision, but because of how little it's used due to the myriad flaws it possesses. It's weak to Stealth Rock, vulnerable all forms of status bar freeze, packs no reliable recovery, has middling-power moves and resists a single uncommon type.

    Naganadel was moved to Ubers because of a great speed tier and Special Attack, fantastically overlapping dual-typing with Fire Blast for coverage, a brilliant ability that makes it borderline unstoppable in the late game, Nasty Plot and U-Turn to catch switch-ins off-guard.

    'Rattata can counter Mega Latias, but you don't see those dumb Smogon folks banning it, huh?!'

    Pheromosa packs a 90% accurate 130BP Fighting move. It learns Ice Beam, Poison Jab and U-Turn. You know this, right?

    It's almost as if Battle Spot and Smogon singles have a completely different set of mechanics that dramatically affect the resultant metagames. Smogon has an open and transparent banning system that revolves around community opinion and extensive testing. Battle Spot bans arbitrary Pokémon on the basis that the designers felt they looked pretty enough to warrant Legendary status.

    You do realise that each OU listing is specifically tied to each generation? There's no arching continuity.

    Edit: It strikes me that folks badly misunderstand the intention of the Smogon tiers. They're absolutely not an attempt to gauge the individual power of each Pokémon. The tiering system is an attempt to provide a wide range of broad metagames where almost all Pokémon can have their day competitively, while minimising centralisation and maximising player agency in any given tier.

    Mega Blaziken was not 'banned because it's better than Landorus'. It was moved to a more appropriate tier because it clearly risked doing unhealthy things to the tier it was in due to over-centralisation. Smogon tiers are not power rankings.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  17. GarchompTheAssassin

    GarchompTheAssassin Water starter fan

    I can sort of see what you're saying tbh. The gen with the least number of pokemon I was interested in until now was V, and even then that was still a good ~25 of them. I can count the amount of gen VII pokemon I genuinely like on my fingers (Primarina, Rockruff, Midday/Dusk Lycanroc and Vikavolt), the rest are just 'eh' or downright ugly (looking at a certain cockroach here)

    I agree with this completely, and maybe a few other reasons as well
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  18. Akkipeddi

    Akkipeddi You'll Never See it Coming!

    I actually agree with most of the things. You know it's a problem when I can only name a small number of the Pokémon I do like (Rockruff and Lycanroc, Golisopod, Decidueye, Nihilego, Naganadel, Solgaleo), with the rest just being average to downright horrendous imo.

    Yeah same here. The Pokémon is one thing, but I honestly really disliked the game as a whole with trials. Also, I know gen VI gets a lot of flack, but one thing it did really well was its extra features like Horde battles, Super Training, PSS, DexNav. Gen VII replaced them with crappier versions. I absolutely detest Festival Plaza and SOS battles.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  19. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    A 130BP 90% accurate fighting move that destroys half of Pheromosa's health if it misses, hits protect, or a Ghost type. It's a risky move to use and far from reliable. And I also know it also gets Drill Run in USUM which helps it out against some things like Alolan Marowak, Toxapex, Gengar, and to a lesser extent Aegislash, although it really doesn't want to hit Aegislash's King's Shield with it. I don't think Pheromosa is overpowered. Drill Run really helps it but stuff like Mimikyu and Charizard can still come in and Pheromosa isn't always going to predict a switch-in correctly. In practice Pheromosa has to be very hesitant to even use High Jump Kick if the opponent has a ghost on their team, especially Mega Gengar.

    I don't agree with all the Battle Spot bans. I don't think Ash-Greninja needed to be banned, and I'm a bit iffy on Magearna. It's not OP in singles but it's pretty darn powerful in doubles because Soul Heart affects with all pokémon on the field. But the rest is banned for pretty good reasons, most mythicals simply because they're not available to everyone, and it'd be an unfair advantage to people that received distributions compared to those that didn't, and that argument doesn't fly for Ash-Greninja and Magearna which are still available to obtain. I think they should release Celebi with their upcoming Crystal release where it'll be available, and Deoxys can probably survive getting unbanned as well with its release in ORAS if it'd be released on the GTS, it has some glaring flaws and I don't think it really needs to be banned.

    Overall, is the game balanced as is? No, there are definitely things that could be done to improve balance. I think the Ice type needs another resistance, I think Intimidate needs a bit of a nerf in doubles (for instance only hitting one random opponent), I think Dark Void needs a buff in singles back to like 85% accuracy, and there are several pokémon like Ledian that can use a buff, but the way Smogon tries to create balance is just weird. They try to still somewhat follow the game mechanics but instead of adapting mechanics or pokémon to create more balance if they want that they just divide them all into tiers and separate them, then introduce some weird rules like a sleep clause and ban Double Team.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  20. PrismaticPrincessAnna

    PrismaticPrincessAnna I'll do my Lilliest

    Pokemon is still Pokemon...
    My only concern are the games. Too much handholding tbh :/
    I want it hard like gen1 had..

    SInce I'm a shiny hunter.. the shinies aren't that rare anymore when they're easy to find now than before..
     

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