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Why is Ash even needed?

MidnightMelody

Hopeful for Gen 8
So I still feel as if Ash should been phased out by the end of the DP series but my real question why is he needed? BW Ash was a noob again and that would have made sense if they fully rebooted him but they didn't. A few years later XY comes and Ash is skilled again which had it come after DP it would make sense but it came after BW which it made it feel just as weird. Now in SM I'm not too sure what they did to Ash. His personality is weird in it. My point is within the last three series they really made Ash out to be 3 separate people and at the end of the day I have to wonder why they don't just replace him if they are going to literally change his personality so much. With the first 3 series it felt as if he was growing from a noob,to a trainer who knew what he was doing into a very skilled trainer. The second trilogy is just so jarring though. I mean if you are going to try different personality traits you might as just make new characters. At this point I kinda expect Ash to be some know it all nerd in Galar.
 

Kintaro

Banned
He's here for the obvious Pikachu connection, and his Japanese name Satoshi is based on Satoshi Tajiri, the creator of the franchise. Besides that if people couldn't let go of Misty/Brock, Ash would have seemed like a bigger deal. There's still people to this day who refuse to watch the anime after Johto just because they think the original trio is the only group of the show.
 

shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
Don't fix what ain't broke.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
He's here for the obvious Pikachu connection, and his Japanese name Satoshi is based on Satoshi Tajiri, the creator of the franchise. Besides that if people couldn't let go of Misty/Brock, Ash would have seemed like a bigger deal. There's still people to this day who refuse to watch the anime after Johto just because they think the original trio is the only group of the show.
Yeah i am agree with that but takeshi and kasumi ran their respective stuff in the johou region and Sinnoh
 

Tsukuyomi56

Emblian Royalty
At this point Ash is just there as the “face” of the anime even if it grates with the older fanbase as he is doomed to lose at every major Pokemon League since for the writers Ash winning marks the end of the Pokemon series. Not sure how to keep Ash “fresh” throughout the series though if he is sticking for the long run though (the change from XY Ash to SM Ash was a bit jarring for some).
 
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mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
TBH, they should've just let him end on sinnoh and hard reset him (and the continuity in general) in BW instead of doing the wonky soft reset, that way they could've both kept ash and made things fresh
 

AznKei

Dawn & Chloe by ddangbi
Don't fix what ain't broke.
He broke more his companions/classmates spotlights though imo, but who cares about them right?
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Ash at this point I think is kind of a 'glue'. A driving force of a character to tie all the others together. This is especially interesting in how it's done in SM, since while the whole cast is established as a group already, Ash still forms a lot of chemistries and chains off some starting elements of character arcs to help build on a lot of their personalities.

He's kind of the character that's kept simplistic enough in terms of background and personality that you can put him anywhere, but at the same time however, when written well, he's still vibrant enough to bounce off of everyone and help them develop their own characters. This did kind of sound like Shudo's intent for him.

Even if many are divided over Ash individually for example, you'll find many who like Ash/Misty episodes, or Ash/May or Ash/Kiawe, etc.

I think the bigger problem is that Ash is still maybe too often treated like the centre piece, and while he can hold a lot of more episodic stories well, he feels kinda better suited as a deuteragonist while the more dynamic characters take centre stage. The AF arc for example if you ignore the execution and controversial use of the games story did okay in that structure, it had Ash start things off but ultimately it ended up more about Lillie's development, with Ash getting some subtle bits here and there to offer him growth but mainly being her supporting shoulder. The current movie is also praised for this, if maybe going a bit too far and lacking much introspective for Ash altogether.
 
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Moonlight Starlight

Well-Known Member
I'm not confuse with BW or XY and SM there are very good good reasons behind these three that tells a different vibe from each three of these.
 

Bortgreen

Captain Pikachu is EPIC
One word: Pikachu.
And also like people commented he is the face of the anime
The right way to fix his problems is not getting rid of him but stop changing his personality every season at least since BW
 

shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
One word: Pikachu.
And also like people commented he is the face of the anime
The right way to fix his problems is not getting rid of him but stop changing his personality every season at least since BW
Not really. If Pokemon Adventures can give a second protagonist a second Pikachu, it can easily work for the same in the anime. Who knows? Maybe a battle-loving female Pikachu with a heart-shaped tail will be an even bigger attention-grabber than Ash's Pikachu.
 

Bortgreen

Captain Pikachu is EPIC
Not really. If Pokemon Adventures can give a second protagonist a second Pikachu, it can work for the same in the anime. Who knows? Maybe a battle-loving female Pikachu with a heart-shaped tail will be an even bigger attention-grabber than Ash's Pikachu.
The problem is that the manga changed the protagonist early enough. If Ash was switched in Johto it would be less of a problem
Also the anime is more popular as a whole, so the backlash would be worse
 

AznKei

Dawn & Chloe by ddangbi
The problem is that the manga changed the protagonist early enough. If Ash was switched in Johto it would be less of a problem
Also the anime is more popular as a whole, so the backlash would be worse
They wouldn't care about the backlash from old fans anyways, because they can renew themselves with new fans.
 

shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
The problem is that the manga changed the protagonist early enough. If Ash was switched in Johto it would be less of a problem
Also the anime is more popular as a whole, so the backlash would be worse
I get that but fan backlash is actually fairly common for any successor to a fairly long series and it usually goes away if the successor is done right over time. Plus I think backlash or doubt is likely more to happen with the new human protagonist rather than a new Pikachu.
 

HoundoomFan

shy shipper
More likely cuz the mascot (pikachu) needs to be, & cuz replacing him at this point would be just as pointless & harmful to them to do that, with so many just watching for him (though they’re the reason ash is unable to develop at all or even come close to accomplishing his dreams).

The best time to get rid of him would have been Johto or Hoenn. DP the longest, but nowadays would seem too random & pointless.
 

Kintaro

Banned
I don't know, never say never. There was a time people believed Misty would never leave, that Brock wouldn't leave permanently after he kept coming back for Johto, AG and DP...or that Team Rocket would appear in every single episode whereas since BW they miss a large chunk of eps and don't appear at all. Or that the art style wouldn't change, etc.

Most of the things that happened in the anime overtime is stuff people would have never believed years ago until it happened. Seriously go back in time to the year 2002 and tell everyone the next 15+ years of the anime, they'd never believe it and it'd sound like fanfiction.
 

Zach8920

Active Member
If backlash was the issue, then 4Kids would've never been replaced by TPCI.

Ash isn't so much needed, but the vehicle he provides is. He's an easy way to move from region to region, seeing Pokemon in an everlasting 'Pokemon Master' quest(or go to school lol).
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
I think that it's not that it's just Pikachu who represent the anime. It's Ash and Pikachu. Like a set.

The current movie is also praised for this, if maybe going a bit too far and lacking much introspective for Ash altogether.

Everything points to M21 being a sequel to I Choose You where we got a lot of insight into Ash's persona. So it makes sense he takes a backseat there.
 

VoltTacklingPika

Well-Known Member
It's a mix of branding, recognition and risk avoidance.

From a creative view there are tonnes of reasons for replacing Ash, but remember, this is a show that's governed by more than just creative decisions. Ash and Pikachu are an iconic duo and arguably the franchise's most recognisable symbols (Pikachu more so than Ash, but Ash has been on TV every week for the past two decades, and that shouldn't be underestimated). The anime is "their" story and by replacing them they would be ending that story, and therefore ending the anime before replacing it with a new one. I know plenty of people wouldn't be too upset about that, but there are risks.

One is the inevitable viewer drop off. A lot of current viewers are still in it for Ash's journey and once that journey ends, their interest will end as well. Even if they replace him with an interesting protagonist, not everyone will be willing to invest in a new character and story after 1,000 episodes. Ash serves as an important bridge between seasons, especially during a period where each season is bringing about more radical changes. While everything else changes, the series can retain some of its fans by keeping around a familiar face and dangling the promise that his journey will continue.

For instance, a school setting is a tough sell for people who want to see a traditional Pokemon adventure, but if you put Ash and Pikachu in there, they might convince fans to give it a chance when they wouldn't have otherwise. If they had put a new protagonist in place, the series might draw some new fans but will simultaneously repel a lot of returning fans. On a related note, it may also be easier to get advertisers and sponsors on board if you have Ash and Pikachu still there instead of two new characters. If I'm a sponsor and I see Sun and Moon being a radical departure from the norm, I would have been concerned about viewer drop off, but having Ash and Pikachu there would have allayed some of my fears because I know they'll draw eyes to the product.

The flip side to this is that replacing the protagonist after so long could create a buzz and give the franchise the opportunity to re-position the anime in the current market. The danger there is that a lot people are inherently resistant to big changes. Misty leaves, and there's a backlash and controversy before AG's first episode even airs. Sun and Moon is revealed, and there's a backlash and controversy before it's episode airs. These things may recover over time, but businesses will want to avoid too many controversies regarding its products. The big problem Pokemon has is that its fanbase isn't conditioned for big change. They change the odd character and the location, but huge changes to the foundation aren't welcomed. You need only poke through forums etc. to see just how many people want the same thing from before.

I've no doubt that idea of replacing Ash has been floated a few times over the years, but by this point it'd be such a seismic change that they're understandably reluctant to do so. It's something that'll only happen when people really start losing interest.
 
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