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And Misty took even shorter than that to ruin. A lot of people missed her when she was gone, but with the amount of degradation she was put through by Psyduck and especially Togepi, maybe the real crime is that she didn't leave sooner. I won't get on the whole bandwagon that the early seasons were absolutely superior, but I still love pre-Togepi Misty; I feel like she was the one character in the party who felt like a real person with real talents and values. The most Pokemon episodes I've ever watched, I watched as research to do an essay explaining why Misty was truly a diamond in the rough; dead serious. I still need to muster up the strength to watch some of the Advance anime since she's still in some of those episodes.
Yet I agree Brock and Team Rocket are the ones that truly hurt with the role they were given; they were actually very tragic characters
the anime wanted us to laugh at. Brock because, even though he was a horny buffoon with an outdated, creepy ideal of courtship, he was also a genuine gentleman who'd never actually hurt a woman, would do a lot to help her, and could actually offer her a lot as a partner and maybe father. I actually wanted Brock to stay with Professor Ivy and her surrogate children, and be happy together; it's kind of sad that the only reason they gave him that sendoff was because they figured some people saw him as a racist caricature of Japanese people, and swapped in Tracy Sketchit. Later on, they apparently realized that absolutely nobody concluded that the Japanese would draw a character racist against themselves, and Brock was brought back on at the cost of his happy ending. Team Rocket, because, I don't think they really were that humorously incompetent jokes of characters. They were certainly stupid in a way, but their big mistake was failing to walk before they could run; going up against people who were building up a Pokemon army, despite having nothing close to that on their own. Yet in the rare moments of their lives when they attempted anything else, be it altruistic behavior or just the sort of greed that wasn't overreaching or illegal, they did alright. The most horrifying thing is that what got them the most trigger-happy and into the most trouble with the law often wasn't money, but just food. They should have gotten out of their miserable situation and let more effective (though hopefully not less-developed) villains take over.
The reason main characters get stale is simply because there's not that much character development in the series, so characters don't change all that much from their introduction. There are some subtle changes to their personalities and they go through some highs and lows of course, but that's really is.
Most TV shows don't go on for 17 years and 850+ episodes. Even in the Johto saga the entire original cast was already getting stale since that was already 250+ episodes.
Yeah, but you'd think if they can't develop them, at least a few of them could get an ending that they felt like they deserved. All of the girl companions got somewhere they were comfortable being, as did Gary, though they still were implied to be driving to new goals. With Ash, there's at least official, if terrible logic for why he has to be in there, but why would anyone think Pokemon needs side characters that run jokes into the ground; especially when said jokes aren't only unfunny, but actually sad?
Also, it deserves to be said: We, as a civilization, should be past all of this "Status Quo is God", "Failure is the Only Option", "Ambition is Evil", "Not Allowed to Grow Up" taurosshit. The era when children had to get up on a day they might otherwise sleep in, worry about what they missed if somehow something happened, and lacked an ability to immerse themselves in something beyond the official showings is long gone. This is the information age; when cartoons can play in more prime slots because they have their own channels, DVR can tackled missed episodes, people (kids included; many can use the Internet better than their parents) can go online and watch missed episodes, marathon episodes, etc. There's no longer an excuse to assume if you throw any curveball in, you'll lose people.
There are plenty of kid friendly shows that actually maintain continuity and character development throughout their run. Avatar: The Last Airbender, The Legend of Korra, Gargoyles and Girls und Panzer all do so and from what I've heard Young Justice does as well. The Pokemon writers either just don't care or figure since the demographic changes every couple of years there's no need for it.
There are plenty of kid friendly shows that actually maintain continuity and character development throughout their run. Avatar: The Last Airbender, The Legend of Korra, Gargoyles and Girls und Panzer all do so and from what I've heard Young Justice does as well. The Pokemon writers either just don't care or figure since the demographic changes every couple of years there's no need for it.
Those shows are all short and don't go beyond the standard 65 episodes. Pokemon in only Kanto already lasted longer than all those shows with 82 episode first season.
If Ash's story wrapped up at the end of DP and they allowed him to win a league and challenge the Elite 4 I doubt anyone would have cared. We had 13 years of Ash at that point and he was at his best.
Brock constantly returning and people being sick of him is proof people don't want the same characters. Same for Team Rocket, people have found them tiring since...DP...or even AG before that.
I wouldn't even have cared if Ash actually ended at the end of Johto, assuming he was written better and such. I don't watch TV shows with no endings, I would have much prefered Ash be done away with long ago.
You may have been fine with Ash removal that early, But that doesnt mean others would be open to this idea with amount of development Ash went through, accomplishments and progression of his story not meeting up with conditions and character being explained enough to make long lasting and satisfying ending.
With lot of things ironically enough even after 20 years remaining mystrery about his pokemon master career, connection to Ho-oh, his father, aura abilities, irrational and thoughtless nature acting befoie thinking costing him battles against beginners even nowadays etc.
Speaking of Brock and Team Rocket your assertion doesnt prove anything really. People you see on daily basis posting negative comments on this characters on serebii or some other English site are minority not talking in everyone name. With TR and Brock having many fans regardless of what some may think.
Otherwise how to explain huge demand existing for Misty return and folow up on her unfinished dreams of becoming water master, unanswered feelings, prejudices, her pokemon and uncleared future of in what direction story will go in regards of becoming top class water expert reaching E4 level of power with all kind of plots introduced in new generations existing to bring whole new freshness to character.
How to explain very noticeable and increased amount of asking and supoport in May being brought back with people craving for sequel and update. Ever since she was gone people either wanted specials focused on her or return to main group.
How to explain so much excitement over older even minor characters like Clair or pokemon such as Charizard being brought back.
Or increased interest in Ash character ever since Serena was brought up in picture revealing segment of his childhood, excitement and wish that he receives mega evolved pokemon and satisfaction of Ash serving as mentir and moral compass to current XY cast?
People care about older characters they grew to like and appreciate wanting to see them taken forward on new more sophisticated and concrete level of character development, exposing new interesting things about them.
Some dont care but that hardly carries over to everyone. Far from it.
Thats if we work under assumption how everyone felt this way.
Im not sure why people have this bad habit of portraying their thoughts as "facts", But im still not sick from Ash or TR, wasnt sick of Brock either,. Disappointed at times with way they were been handled in terms of progression , focus and strength of role they played?
Yes. But definitely not sick still appreciating and being able to enjoy in characters.
And Misty took even shorter than that to ruin. A lot of people missed her when she was gone, but with the amount of degradation she was put through by Psyduck and especially Togepi, maybe the real crime is that she didn't leave sooner. I won't get on the whole bandwagon that the early seasons were absolutely superior, but I still love pre-Togepi Misty; I feel like she was the one character in the party who felt like a real person with real talents and values. The most Pokemon episodes I've ever watched, I watched as research to do an essay explaining why Misty was truly a diamond in the rough; dead serious. I still need to muster up the strength to watch some of the Advance anime since she's still in some of those episodes.
Interesting that you say that because Misty was one of few characters in pokemon series which i consider stayed fresh, fun and likable from start of Kanto to end of Johto.
With presence of Togepi only allowing to explore on various personality sides this character had to it, sides often overshadowed by temper delivering over time more dimensional and full of symphatetic flaws, interests and qualities character.
Misty is imo one of few characters who never became flanderized and boring. Far, far from it . To me most of her best and meaningful moments happened in rest of 226 episodes after 50th episode when she received egg pokemon.
She was amazing in Kanto, Orange islands and majority of Johto.
Granted she did faded in background during middle of Johto series having limited focus or purpose in show due to clash of ideas and directions in which pokemon series should be taken at that time according to ex head writer for OS Takeshi Shudo blogs.
But i can say she fully recovered for me when we take a look at all those amazing focus and development Misty received in last Johto season.
Getting lot of screentime and meaningful development in Whirl islands and big water tournament. Challenging gym leader Dorian. Forming on strong friendship with Sakura who had similar issues with older siblings, revealed why she likes water so much when meeting hotheaded trainer Egan. Evolving Poliwhirl, developed such level of attachment and care for Ash and Brock that she ended up crying when having to leave them by end of Johto.
Followed with even stronger development in chronicles and Hoenn. Being amazing brimming with pride, enthusiasm and slight arrogance in positive funny way. With obtain of Gyarados, relese of Togetic, hilarious interactions with Tracey and Daisy having bonding moments as sisters when battling with Luvdisc as much as big sis got on Misty nerves with her vanity sometime driving her crazy being one of best, most memorable moments Misty had in show.
Never losing her flare, spark and appeal as character to me.
Thus being insult to replace this character when writers brought her back on right track, proved they can write better for her and bring whole new texture to her personality(especially when following region called Hoenn having warter experts, legendary water pokemon, villains connected to water and many places where tournaments building up from Whirl Cup could take place).
Depriving people of follow up, leaving her story and water pokemon master career, desire to become reputable and powerful water expert like her idol Lorelei, deal with her inability to use pokemon to full potential(like Psyduck for example) unfinished and chance to enjoy in strong dynamic and wide specter of emotions her lively presence brought to series.
For record i dont see Brock and TR long stay as tragic either. Because at end of the day writers may have done bad things with way they were handled, but they also did many things right as far as im concerned., Allowing to have viewer learn more aiout their past, build on relationship between themselves, go through character development and entertain people with various, cool adventures they got taken in (like Jessie being coordinator which i personally liked fitting her drams queen personality).
Tragic outcome happens with replaced characters who leave with sour taste in mouth with writers never fixing mistakes done with them and using them to full potential. Wandering around in wastelands of oblivion forgotten, unfinished and threw away like last trash never seeing light of day again. Thats what i call tragic outcome.
Most TV shows don't go on for 17 years and 850+ episodes. Even in the Johto saga the entire original cast was already getting stale since that was already 250+ episodes.
You say characters dont get much development being reason behind getting stale. Yet Ash, Misty and Brock developed their friendship to much closer level full of maturity, understanding and sarcastic, temperament demeanor in more teaseful, relaxed way as evidenced in not acting all immature and childish like it was case in Kanto.
But giving out impression of group of friends which went through lot together , grew to accept each other flaws and qualities still getting on each other nerves, but also developing more tolerance for each other.
If departure in "Gotta Catch Ya Later" didnt showed that perfectly, im afraid nothing will.
Yet you say how cast which developed so much in personality and relationship got stale because of not getting development??
Those shows are all short and don't go beyond the standard 65 episodes. Pokemon in only Kanto already lasted longer than all those shows with 82 episode first season.
Naruto, One Piece, Dragon ball, Fairy tail, Sailor Moon to name a few. There exist plenty shows which have same characteres for hundreds of episodes developing and moving story forward maintaining strong continuity and connectiuons tom past so that poast knowledge, characters and impacts in someone life transfer on future plots with both older and new characters remaining relevant in universe.
And Misty took even shorter than that to ruin. A lot of people missed her when she was gone, but with the amount of degradation she was put through by Psyduck and especially Togepi, maybe the real crime is that she didn't leave sooner. I won't get on the whole bandwagon that the early seasons were absolutely superior, but I still love pre-Togepi Misty; I feel like she was the one character in the party who felt like a real person with real talents and values. The most Pokemon episodes I've ever watched, I watched as research to do an essay explaining why Misty was truly a diamond in the rough; dead serious. I still need to muster up the strength to watch some of the Advance anime since she's still in some of those episodes.
Yet I agree Brock and Team Rocket are the ones that truly hurt with the role they were given; they were actually very tragic characters
the anime wanted us to laugh at. Brock because, even though he was a horny buffoon with an outdated, creepy ideal of courtship, he was also a genuine gentleman who'd never actually hurt a woman, would do a lot to help her, and could actually offer her a lot as a partner and maybe father. I actually wanted Brock to stay with Professor Ivy and her surrogate children, and be happy together; it's kind of sad that the only reason they gave him that sendoff was because they figured some people saw him as a racist caricature of Japanese people, and swapped in Tracy Sketchit. Later on, they apparently realized that absolutely nobody concluded that the Japanese would draw a character racist against themselves, and Brock was brought back on at the cost of his happy ending. Team Rocket, because, I don't think they really were that humorously incompetent jokes of characters. They were certainly stupid in a way, but their big mistake was failing to walk before they could run; going up against people who were building up a Pokemon army, despite having nothing close to that on their own. Yet in the rare moments of their lives when they attempted anything else, be it altruistic behavior or just the sort of greed that wasn't overreaching or illegal, they did alright. The most horrifying thing is that what got them the most trigger-happy and into the most trouble with the law often wasn't money, but just food. They should have gotten out of their miserable situation and let more effective (though hopefully not less-developed) villains take over.
What you said is pretty depressing, but makes a lot of sense, now that I think of it.
Honestly, if you're willing to look beyond his silly gag of falling head-over-heels for every girl, it's easy to see that Brock's actually a great guy. After all, didn't that Holly chick in DP develop feelings for Brock, the only reason she left being because she didn't consider herself strong enough to deserve him? He was also well-liked by younger girls, maybe because he didn't perv out on them. I really hope that Brock eventually ends up with someone, because I always found it more depressing than anything.
As for TR, they're actually pretty talented at a lot of things. They're good at building robots, amazing at cooking (reaffirmed very recently in the Summer Camp arc), have an unusual but effective approach towards fashion and are genuinely nice people trying hard to be wicked, Jessie because of her past and what her mother was, and James because of his family forcing him to be with someone he hates. Honestly, I don't think that TR could genuinely bring themselves to give Pikachu up to Giovanni, even if they ever won. Which, since they're going up against the good guys, will never actually happen. As viewers, we know that JJM are doomed to fail.
Didn't they say Masters were stronger than Champions? Or at least imply it? In DP, Ash said something along the lines of "I'll become champion, then move on to become a Pokemon Master."
If this is the case, then even if Ash wins the Pokemon League, then the Champions League in which he faces the Elite Four, he still has work to do in order to become a Master. I don't see why they don't let Ash win a League, the lose at the 2nd or 3rd Elite Four member. That will show us at least some progress in Ashs character. But of course, the writers don't care about silly things like character development or progression.
If this is the case, then even if Ash wins the Pokemon League, then the Champions League in which he faces the Elite Four, he still has work to do in order to become a Master. I don't see why they don't let Ash win a League, the lose at the 2nd or 3rd Elite Four member. That will show us at least some progress in Ashs character. But of course, the writers don't care about silly things like character development or progression.
It's already been a pain watching him lose five official Pokemon Leagues these past 17 years; would him losing at the "Champion League" really rectify that? :x
It's already been a pain watching him lose five official Pokemon Leagues these past 17 years; would him losing at the "Champion League" really rectify that? :x
He would finally make it past the tournament and enter the Champions league. It would be a pretty big step in facing an elite four member. Especially if he manages to win against one or two.
Interesting that you say that because Misty was one of few characters in pokemon series which i consider stayed fresh, fun and likable from start of Kanto to end of Johto.
With presence of Togepi only allowing to explore on various personality sides this character had to it, sides often overshadowed by temper delivering over time more dimensional and full of symphatetic flaws, interests and qualities character.
Misty is imo one of few characters who never became flanderized and boring. Far, far from it . To me most of her best and meaningful moments happened in rest of 226 episodes after 50th episode when she received egg pokemon.
She was amazing in Kanto, Orange islands and majority of Johto.
Granted she did faded in background during middle of Johto series having limited focus or purpose in show due to clash of ideas and directions in which pokemon series should be taken at that time according to ex head writer for OS Takeshi Shudo blogs.
But i can say she fully recovered for me when we take a look at all those amazing focus and development Misty received in last Johto season.
Getting lot of screentime and meaningful development in Whirl islands and big water tournament. Challenging gym leader Dorian. Forming on strong friendship with Sakura who had similar issues with older siblings, revealed why she likes water so much when meeting hotheaded trainer Egan. Evolving Poliwhirl, developed such level of attachment and care for Ash and Brock that she ended up crying when having to leave them by end of Johto.
Followed with even stronger development in chronicles and Hoenn. Being amazing brimming with pride, enthusiasm and slight arrogance in positive funny way. With obtain of Gyarados, relese of Togetic, hilarious interactions with Tracey and Daisy having bonding moments as sisters when battling with Luvdisc as much as big sis got on Misty nerves with her vanity sometime driving her crazy being one of best, most memorable moments Misty had in show.
Never losing her flare, spark and appeal as character to me.
Thus being insult to replace this character when writers brought her back on right track, proved they can write better for her and bring whole new texture to her personality(especially when following region called Hoenn having warter experts, legendary water pokemon, villains connected to water and many places where tournaments building up from Whirl Cup could take place).
Depriving people of follow up, leaving her story and water pokemon master career, desire to become reputable and powerful water expert like her idol Lorelei, deal with her inability to use pokemon to full potential(like Psyduck for example) unfinished and chance to enjoy in strong dynamic and wide specter of emotions her lively presence brought to series.
You're right, and I shouldn't have gone so far as to say "ruined". She always was my favorite character in the anime, and the episodes starring her were typically good. Still, I feel she lost some of what she had at the start, and what she gained, though not invalid, just wasn't as fun to me.
Misty, as introduced at the start of the Pokemon anime, was really kind of a *****; she was whiny, shouty, and kind of abusive, but she was a ***** with a heart. She actually cared about Pokemon as beings themselves in a way that Ash was pretty questionable about, was nicely assertive in trying to upstage her sisters by doing their jobs better than they did, and she could be really brave when it came to taking a stand for environmental causes. I like how she snarked at her buffoonish friends, too.
I'll save more on this for my blog, but moving along, I may have said that "Psyduck and especially Togepi" worsened her, but with Togepi, in retrospect I will at least acknowledge she gained something of some value...Psyduck, though, served no purpose but to fill the show's offensive desire for bad running jokes. It wasn't even explained how the dumb duck found its way into whatever Poke Ball she had in the lead, that happened almost every time she fought, and even in the rare moments psyduck was useful in battle, it was the same scenario of accidentally getting its head hurt and using a special attack, every time. I cannot stand technically-broken characters whom luck gives a free pass throughout the plot.
Now, with Togepi...I'll grant it gave Misty a new layer to her personality, as she started to be more maternal and all-around nicer, and it's not that I thought badly of her for that, but in that role, she mostly just felt...typical. I liked Misty for being a headstrong girl who stood behind moral causes that have actual relevance in the real-world, and was willing to get annoying and violent in the service of them; she could be a pain, but her heart was always visibly in the right place. Moving her to a more maternal role, though it also plays to that ideal, just made her seem like a stereotypical female character who expresses her love in stereotypical female ways. A possible comparable scenario would be one where Tony Stark stops being Iron Man and just takes a job monitoring computer systems in a laboratory; it technically fits his character, but the appeal of Iron Man is that he's a rare scientist character who's NOT stuck in a lab behind the scenes. Furthering that is that Misty became even worse in fights after Togepi showed up, literally having her hands full, and it, just like Psyduck, just happened to use its Metronome at the right time and get the right TM to save them from what would have been a disaster; Misty effectively had no agency in the battles.
For record i dont see Brock and TR long stay as tragic either. Because at end of the day writers may have done bad things with way they were handled, but they also did many things right as far as im concerned., Allowing to have viewer learn more aiout their past, build on relationship between themselves, go through character development and entertain people with various, cool adventures they got taken in (like Jessie being coordinator which i personally liked fitting her drams queen personality).
Tragic outcome happens with replaced characters who leave with sour taste in mouth with writers never fixing mistakes done with them and using them to full potential. Wandering around in wastelands of oblivion forgotten, unfinished and threw away like last trash never seeing light of day again. Thats what i call tragic outcome.
You say characters dont get much development being reason behind getting stale. Yet Ash, Misty and Brock developed their friendship to much closer level full of maturity, understanding and sarcastic, temperament demeanor in more teaseful, relaxed way as evidenced in not acting all immature and childish like it was case in Kanto.
But giving out impression of group of friends which went through lot together , grew to accept each other flaws and qualities still getting on each other nerves, but also developing more tolerance for each other.
If departure in "Gotta Catch Ya Later" didnt showed that perfectly, im afraid nothing will.
Yet you say how cast which developed so much in personality and relationship got stale because of not getting development??
I guess for me, a big problem is that when those better aspects of the characters are teased, it makes it a pain every time they're rolled back. For example, I've heard Team Rocket compared to Wile E. Coyote; that is, a big part of the joke is that with their resources and (admittedly flawed, but present) technical know-how, they don't really need to go after what's become their obsession in order to get ahead. The difference is that with Coyote, that's his only trait; the Team Rocket Trio would still be annoying if that was their only trait, but that they've been shown to have good traits and we've seen what kind of life they might live if they just reassess things, that's the reason I call them tragic; because then I want them to go off in that direction permanently. The textbook definition of a "tragic" character is a character whose worst flaws (in this case, blind obsession) undo all of their success, so Team Rocket does fit that, whether or not you feel hurt by it. The show wants it to be funny when they make the wrong choice and fail the umpteenth time to catch Pikachu, but how can I laugh at people suffering when they deserve a better life? I want Team Rocket to end this way.
As for TR, they're actually pretty talented at a lot of things. They're good at building robots, amazing at cooking (reaffirmed very recently in the Summer Camp arc), have an unusual but effective approach towards fashion and are genuinely nice people trying hard to be wicked, Jessie because of her past and what her mother was, and James because of his family forcing him to be with someone he hates. Honestly, I don't think that TR could genuinely bring themselves to give Pikachu up to Giovanni, even if they ever won. Which, since they're going up against the good guys, will never actually happen. As viewers, we know that JJM are doomed to fail.
Actually, the weird thing is that it seemed like Giovanni never cared about Pikachu, anyway. Maybe he said he wanted it once, but past a very limited point it was just them extrapolating an important task that really wasn't. Their whole belief about it being "special" was out of a misconception where a very specific set of events, where their own Pokemon's gas and Ash connecting Pikachu to Misty's bike to generate sparks, happened to destroy the Pokemon center, and even with that myth persisting, Giovanni still had better Pokemon than that.
Didn't they say Masters were stronger than Champions? Or at least imply it? In DP, Ash said something along the lines of "I'll become champion, then move on to become a Pokemon Master."
If this is the case, then even if Ash wins the Pokemon League, then the Champions League in which he faces the Elite Four, he still has work to do in order to become a Master. I don't see why they don't let Ash win a League, the lose at the 2nd or 3rd Elite Four member. That will show us at least some progress in Ashs character. But of course, the writers don't care about silly things like character development or progression.
Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about that. They should probably let him win the League, lose to an Elite and actually tell us what the Master thing means. If being a regional Champion is just a step of becoming one, I could see Ash having a lot of story still left after winning a League. Him making some progress towards the goal is really important too, since it lets older fans hold onto some hope and not drop the show for something different.
I guess for me, a big problem is that when those better aspects of the characters are teased, it makes it a pain every time they're rolled back. For example, I've heard Team Rocket compared to Wile E. Coyote; that is, a big part of the joke is that with their resources and (admittedly flawed, but present) technical know-how, they don't really need to go after what's become their obsession in order to get ahead. The difference is that with Coyote, that's his only trait; the Team Rocket Trio would still be annoying if that was their only trait, but that they've been shown to have good traits and we've seen what kind of life they might live if they just reassess things, that's the reason I call them tragic; because then I want them to go off in that direction permanently. The textbook definition of a "tragic" character is a character whose worst flaws (in this case, blind obsession) undo all of their success, so Team Rocket does fit that, whether or not you feel hurt by it. The show wants it to be funny when they make the wrong choice and fail the umpteenth time to catch Pikachu, but how can I laugh at people suffering when they deserve a better life? I want Team Rocket to end this way.
Actually, the weird thing is that it seemed like Giovanni never cared about Pikachu, anyway. Maybe he said he wanted it once, but past a very limited point it was just them extrapolating an important task that really wasn't. Their whole belief about it being "special" was out of a misconception where a very specific set of events, where their own Pokemon's gas and Ash connecting Pikachu to Misty's bike to generate sparks, happened to destroy the Pokemon center, and even with that myth persisting, Giovanni still had better Pokemon than that.
Yeah, that would be good to see. Team Rocket have a lot of good in them, something which prevents me from feeling too good about their countless defeats. Now, a character like J is someone I'd enjoy seeing defeated. I almost felt like cheering when her cracked goggles floated up to the surface. Would I feel the same if this happened to TR? No, I wouldn't.
Actually, he's never expressed any interest in Pikachu whatsoever. I think he knows that there's no way Pikachu is as extraordinary as the TRio make him out to be. IIRC the TRio said something about Pikachu's power 'far exceeding its evolutionary level' or something along those lines. That has been proved to be false multiple times already, which means Pikachu is just a regular member of the species that has been well-trained and works under the commands of a very skilled trainer.
You're right, and I shouldn't have gone so far as to say "ruined". She always was my favorite character in the anime, and the episodes starring her were typically good. Still, I feel she lost some of what she had at the start, and what she gained, though not invalid, just wasn't as fun to me.
Misty, as introduced at the start of the Pokemon anime, was really kind of a *****; she was whiny, shouty, and kind of abusive, but she was a ***** with a heart. She actually cared about Pokemon as beings themselves in a way that Ash was pretty questionable about, was nicely assertive in trying to upstage her sisters by doing their jobs better than they did, and she could be really brave when it came to taking a stand for environmental causes. I like how she snarked at her buffoonish friends, too.
I'll save more on this for my blog, but moving along, I may have said that "Psyduck and especially Togepi" worsened her, but with Togepi, in retrospect I will at least acknowledge she gained something of some value...Psyduck, though, served no purpose but to fill the show's offensive desire for bad running jokes. It wasn't even explained how the dumb duck found its way into whatever Poke Ball she had in the lead, that happened almost every time she fought, and even in the rare moments psyduck was useful in battle, it was the same scenario of accidentally getting its head hurt and using a special attack, every time. I cannot stand technically-broken characters whom luck gives a free pass throughout the plot.
Now, with Togepi...I'll grant it gave Misty a new layer to her personality, as she started to be more maternal and all-around nicer, and it's not that I thought badly of her for that, but in that role, she mostly just felt...typical. I liked Misty for being a headstrong girl who stood behind moral causes that have actual relevance in the real-world, and was willing to get annoying and violent in the service of them; she could be a pain, but her heart was always visibly in the right place. Moving her to a more maternal role, though it also plays to that ideal, just made her seem like a stereotypical female character who expresses her love in stereotypical female ways. A possible comparable scenario would be one where Tony Stark stops being Iron Man and just takes a job monitoring computer systems in a laboratory; it technically fits his character, but the appeal of Iron Man is that he's a rare scientist character who's NOT stuck in a lab behind the scenes.
For me personally changes didnt worsened Misty because she never lost her appeal and truer essence as female character. Gaining some new, interesting sides to her, while keeping older ones building on them.
Point of character development is to learn on past mistakes. Come to cognition how to work on your flaws improving as person. Become stronger and more confident in what your doing, while finding strength in yourself to make amends with negative experiences haunting you from past.
As result of that just like each of us individuals in real life change, evolve and develop with various experiences, people, achievements and failures molding our personality and beliefs.
Same applies to fictional characters with personality and emotional growth being essential if you want to avoid stagnation. Avoid your protagonist become flanderized relying over and over again on same repeated paterns of behavior and select few traits to the point of this becoming all there is to said character.
Making him/her slowly wither, decay and remain relatively predictable.
All those traits you mentioned Misty had before stayed within her character. Presence of Togepi and two persons which became very important to her(Ash and Brock)only expanded on personality characteristics Misty showed to always have within her.
Misty didnt stopped being temperament and abrasive as noticed in her arguing with Ash over Totpodile, in Whirl Cup, when they got lost. When he teased her over Psyduck or when Tracey insisted in going to forest full of bigs to catch Scyther for example. While being caring, motivating and encouraging in giving her friends and others moral boost
She didnt stopped being sarcastic and coming up with witty quips when ribbing on Brock failure toward girls, in trying to outsmart Jessie and James teasing them of being old and losing vitality,when recognizing them behind disguise etc.
Bursted with girly and romantic streak in wruting letters in hopes of pairing up kids with Nidoran who had cruash on each other, tried to help pair Jenaro and Ariene or Brock with Temaku being very moved and gleeful over love and romance commenting how Ash cant really understand this things
Or selfrighteous brimming with defiant, brave outlook on world fighting for weak and not waiting to find solution to various problems on multiple occasions in Orange Islands or Johto.
But Misty also developed various other aspects of her personality helping her to overcome her fears, insecurities and prejudices.
Like discovering her own talents, beliefs and qualities as person and trainer managing to overcome compolex of inferiority imposed on her by older sisters Daisy and others.
If we take a look at Misty childhood she and sisters were left alone(possibly abandoned according to mr. Shudo novelizations) by parents at very young age, Misty grew up without friends, parental love and care. All encompassed with being repeatedly degraded and neglected by older sisters from all the fun leaving mental scars on her psyche. Developing defense mechanism to personality in trying to hide her insecurity, fears and loneliness of never experienceing affection and love herself through abrasive, rude and violent exterior serving as mask to her inner emotions.
With presence of Ash and Brock, later accompanied with Togepi serving as revelation to Misty character. For first time experiencing what its like to have friends, compabny where sher can feel welcomed and accepted knowing someone will be by her side,.
Making her life feel more fulfilled and happier than it was case before.
In events of this things we saw Misty finding strength in her heart to forgive older sisters and establish better, more meaningful relationship with them(especially Daisy having some pretty sweet, bonding moments in chronicles regardless of getting on her nerves sometime). Resulting in receiving more respect and acknowledgment of her skills as pokemon traineer and other valuies.,
We saw Misty learning to be more open and understanding as person sharing with Ash, Brock and other people she met on joiurney her dreams and how above all she wants to become water master being renowned water expert worldwide, talking about her childhood, family and issues.
We saw her becoming more selfcritic and aware of her own flaws respecting opinions which differ from hers. One of better examples was when she engaged in bickering and animosity with fire trainer Egan not being able to tolerate him. But eventually started to bond and share with each other passion for fire and water pokemon with Misty coming to understand his motives and reasons.
In becoming more independent and confident in her abilities as person realizing she doesnt need friends on her side in case something goes wrong. This can be noticed in taking charge to battle villains like Butch and Cassidy or Rocket organization. Becoming more focused on her water master dreams and skills as trainer being unsure and deep in thoughts over her future.
In trying to save Brock from Ninetales hypnosis and Lakoko illusion not wanting to abandon her friend in need.
Taking charge in saving Togepi from colonel Habson frying his Shedinja with Gyarados and impressing everyone with how tough, resourceful she became. Showing lot of outgoing smartass and spunky demeanor mixed with kind, compassionate side helping Max to fix broken relationship with May for example.
We saw Misty getting influenced by Ash persistent, unselfish and devoted liking tioward pokemon doing everything he can to protect them, even if it involves risking his life. Something Misty at first viewed reckless and foolish but with time started to admire and like that quality of innocence and big heart present in Ash character.
Driving her to do something she would never done before. Showed in Cerulean Bue when despite her fears and childhood trauma of almost ending eaten as baby by Gyarados took responsibility and tried to protect him from Tentacruel. Taking poison sting and tackle from all three of them almost drowning and losing life. With her selfless act earning gratitude and respect from Gyarados saving her life and changing Misty perception on this specie overcoming dislike and fears.
Or in accepting over time Psyduck for who he is. Coming to care and enjoy in this duck despite its handicap and scatterbrained nature.
Best showed in throwing Psyduck in side to save him from Team Rocket giant crab like mecha ending sucked in Whirlpool herself.
Most of all over time growing attached to Ash and Brock discovering value of friendship, accepting their flaws and negative sides which makes her at times grouchy and annoyed. While symphatizing their good sides, knowledge, good hearted nature and knowing they will be always there for her returning them in same manner unconditionally encouragement, moral support and crying shoulder when needed.
By end of Johto establishing such close bond and love toward them that she was upset of having to leave not just because of wanting to continue exploring world, enter tournaments and meet all kind of new pokoemon pursuing her goals, but also because her friends represented family to her, someone with who she could without restrain talk and confine herself to. Especially Ash.
For who she developed over time love feelings which created conflict and insecurity in Misty character. Not knowing and having trouble to express her feelings due to her stubborn and prideful nature, while questioning herself how she should feel about it.
Influence Togepi and friends left on Misty was gradual not changing over night. With her development and unfold of all kind of personality sides happening gradually through subtle changes and analysis of character inner thoughts.
Development was at times inconsistent and Misty had lot of potential left untapped leaving her story, feelings and goals of reaching water master level unfinished(hence why im in favor of her coming back before anime ends for season or two to enjoy in this great character again and tie up loose ends).
But personally i appreciated that Misty was able to mature as character without comforting herself to predictable and stereotyped gender roles.
Becoming better, more understanding person with layer of fire, sass and strongwiled nature added to it making for realistic female. Which can be carting and loyal doing anything for her family and friends, but also be feisty and act on her own not letting others to mess up with her.
Something which was recognized in various books like "Japanification of children popular culture!", "Anime classics Zettai;100 must watch Japanese anime masterpieces!" etc.
Finding eventually balance between abrasive and temperament side with more feminine and quirky nature mixed with nurture qualities balancing things out. Ensuing further popularity among western audience.
Furthering that is that Misty became even worse in fights after Togepi showed up, literally having her hands full, and it, just like Psyduck, just happened to use its Metronome at the right time and get the right TM to save them from what would have been a disaster; Misty effectively had no agency in the battles.
Actually after Togepi Misty became if anything more active and succcesful trainer,. Winning Princess festival tournament, defending gym and preventing Jessie and James from stealing pokemon when plaiung underwater balet dressed as mermaid.
Battled various trainers like water specialist Marina, Sakura, Coastline gym leader Dorian, Georgio and Delcatty, Delaney etc.
Won Seaking contest defeating Poliwrath with Poliwhirl, came top 8 in prestigue Whirl Cup which was directly tied to her water master career. Won Alto Mare race,
Caught Poliwag evoolving it to Polirath and Corsola. Established better understanding of water pokemon feelings. Obtained Gyarados.
Etc, etc.
Misty showed much more interest in battles and agency in later season to resolve various conflicts and plots actively searching for solutions-
But due to Togepi in itself being treated most of time as pen dant barely getting any development or action, people seemed to extend their disappointment to Misty character itself.
Regardless of this two quantities being unrelated with one not being equal to another. Because Togepi passiveness did not reflected on activity, battles and contribution to helping various people, stopping villains or finding ways out of dangerous situations Misty showed through Original series run and afterwards all the way up until Togepi evolved and got released.
EDIT:
Maybe we should if wish to continue have further discussion about Misty through private messaging since this isnt appropriate place for this subject.
I guess for me, a big problem is that when those better aspects of the characters are teased, it makes it a pain every time they're rolled back. For example, I've heard Team Rocket compared to Wile E. Coyote; that is, a big part of the joke is that with their resources and (admittedly flawed, but present) technical know-how, they don't really need to go after what's become their obsession in order to get ahead. The difference is that with Coyote, that's his only trait; the Team Rocket Trio would still be annoying if that was their only trait, but that they've been shown to have good traits and we've seen what kind of life they might live if they just reassess things, that's the reason I call them tragic; because then I want them to go off in that direction permanently. The textbook definition of a "tragic" character is a character whose worst flaws (in this case, blind obsession) undo all of their success, so Team Rocket does fit that, whether or not you feel hurt by it. The show wants it to be funny when they make the wrong choice and fail the umpteenth time to catch Pikachu, but how can I laugh at people suffering when they deserve a better life? I want Team Rocket to end this way.
Truth of a matter is how Jessie, James and Meowth were placed in ungratedul role from very start they got included in pokemon series.
They are solidified under role of constant stream of comic relief source. Goofy, dopey and irrational individuals which represent tension and ostensible appearance of urgency which is there for laugh, teaching young kids moral values of good and bad.
Rocket trio position in pokemon anime because of that is ungrateful and repetitive because of representing group of characters which can never really succeed, achieve their dreams and mission connected to villain organization and come out as triumphant since it would go against everything this show unrealistically promotes.
Writers try to somewhat alleviate this problem by freshening and filling with more flavor Jessie and James role at times. Such as exploring on their past and diving in to their personalities on more concrete level, how they got first pokemon, James passion for various hobbies unrelated to Rocket organization and issues with family, Jessie tragic past like and how she ended doing criminal activities while fiunding out ways to have them compete and build themselvesas characters. At times.
Or giving them other objectives to follow and try to achieve,. Like Jessie trying to become famous top coordinator in fair way without cheating eventualy starting in Hoenn and extending to Sinnoh. James entering pokeringer, pokemon orientering, various festivals etc, Or in James for example realizing how his Cacnea can never explore its potential with him with hard heart giving it to gym leader Gardenia to train and have better life.
Showing they have more to them as characters and individuals than just being trio of persistent, silly persons chasing after Pikachu.
But in nutshell their comic relief role is main driving force and point behind existence in this show which depending on person attention span and dislike or like toward certain stunts used in anime like this;can either grow sick and tired of them
-or still find something in TR role and characterization which keeps yopu intrigued into them
Its not good role, but than again pokemon anime was never pinnacle of great writing sadly.
With game promotion holding higher priority than coherent development, stable cast, strong continuity abnd flexible stiryline which has sense of direction in making its characters grow forward, change and come closer toward their dreams.
Like its case with Ash for instance keeping him in never ending cycle of qualifying for regional league and always failing at it. Rather than exploring more on what dreram of becoming pokemon master entails aside from becoming strongest pokemon trainer in world.
Which technically could be determined by creating some sort of special quest, master league where each champion held presumably as top trainer of region he originates from, participate in chain of events and various tasks they need to accomplish to qualify for one big final tournament in style like Orange islands or Battle Frontier introduced. Where champions battle between themselves with last one standing earning right to be called pokemon master and top trainer in world.
Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about that. They should probably let him win the League, lose to an Elite and actually tell us what the Master thing means. If being a regional Champion is just a step of becoming one, I could see Ash having a lot of story still left after winning a League. Him making some progress towards the goal is really important too, since it lets older fans hold onto some hope and not drop the show for something different.
They really should have had him do something either after the silver conference or definitely in hoenn if they were really going to push for the champion league and make him a pokemon master. The anime will be gone long before he ever reaches that now, which is sad because it would have been alot more entertaining than watch him hover round the top 8 for the last 15 years. Outside of besting Paul, he hasnt progressed at all, it's hard to imagine him making such a big leap forward now.
They really should have had him do something either after the silver conference or definitely in hoenn if they were really going to push for the champion league and make him a pokemon master. The anime will be gone long before he ever reaches that now, which is sad because it would have been alot more entertaining than watch him hover round the top 8 for the last 15 years. Outside of besting Paul, he hasnt progressed at all, it's hard to imagine him making such a big leap forward now.
Johto was to show his progression from Kanto. Hoenn was to show his progression from Johto because while in Johto he used reserves in Hoenn. And Unova League was shambolic
Johto was to show his progression from Kanto. Hoenn was to show his progression from Johto because while in Johto he used reserves in Hoenn. And Unova League was shambolic
What should have happened was the Hoenn league should have been Top 4, and Sinnoh should have been Top 2 if he was still to lose to Tobias in the finals.
They really should have had him do something either after the silver conference or definitely in hoenn if they were really going to push for the champion league and make him a pokemon master. The anime will be gone long before he ever reaches that now, which is sad because it would have been alot more entertaining than watch him hover round the top 8 for the last 15 years. Outside of besting Paul, he hasnt progressed at all, it's hard to imagine him making such a big leap forward now.
It's sad because of how true it is. Then again, the saga right after Ash's victory against Paul was BW, which I refused to believe ever happened(except for the 'Zard coming back and Krookodile).
In that case, it wasn't too far off...just around 50 or so episodes.
But being a cash cow franchise doesn't excuse lazy and extremely repetitive writing, dumbing down characters that were never particularly complex in the first place, and ditching what little character development there is when a new region rolls around.
There you have it...and that's why I don't like it at all: it also doesn't excuse terrible English dubbing as well- the Pokemon dub has fallen to an abysmal standard in XY and it's pretty unbearable to watch- the voices don't fit the main characters' ages, the script writing is wooden and any attempts at humor are not amusing in the slightest, while music is poorly composed and lazily rushed together at the least minute when it comes to the openings/endings.
It's already been a pain watching him lose five official Pokemon Leagues these past 17 years; would him losing at the "Champion League" really rectify that? :x
I don't think people are sick of Brock, Ash, or Team Rocket from overexposure so much as underdevelopment. Brock was OK for the first few seasons. Not a great character, maybe, he was still a fairly level headed, knowledgeable mentor to Ash and Misty who had a weakness for pretty girls. He actually had a reason to be on the show. By the time he was written off for good he’d devolved into a sex obsessed idiot who stood on the sidelines of battle and provided pointless commentary. Ditto for Team Rocket. Some of the my favorite episodes are the ones that reveal more about the TRio back stories and personalities; Jessie wanted to be a Pokemon nurse, James ran away from his rich parents because he couldn’t stand the idea of marrying Jessebelle, Meowth learned to talk and walk upright to try and impress Meowsy and so on.
Granted, they never even came close to be as complex and well written as say, Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender or Demona from Gargoyles but they weren’t just one dimensional villains at first. Now? They boil down to “Let’s steal the twerp’s Pokemon! Oh no! Our plan didn’t work! Looks like Team Rocket’s blasting off again!” Maybe this is nostalgia talking but I honestly believe that the first couple of seasons actually tried to flesh out the characters somewhat and nowadays the writers have reduced them to a series of running gags.
