Why is Garchomp uber?

[cakedup]

I am a big fan of using Garchomp. My favorite set is the swords dance yache berry set from Smogon. The EVs are 252 AT/252 Spe/4 HP. I won't deny that he hits hard and is kinda speedy, but I lose him frequently. His ability sounds cool, but is only worth it in a sandstorm team with bright powder. I don't think he is anymore invincible than the other pseudo legendaries let alone the actual OU legendaries people use.

Tyranitar can boost his speed to Adamant Garchomp levels with one Dragon Dance if Ev'ed properly. Additionally his typing and ability increase his base 100 Sp Def stat as soon as he enters play. I like him too, but this seems more unfair than Garchomp.

Metagross is a defensive nightmare that only has two 200% weakness and no 400%. He is able to negate one of them with magnet rise and the other is not all that common. Also, he has the highest attack stat of this group
(135).

Salamence has intimidate to account for its lower defense stat, but is easily the most OU pokemon of all time. It has the ability to break any wall with a mixmence and is seldom countered. Many pokemon such as Cradily, Bronzong, Porygon2, and Cresselia are listed as top counters, but only if they can get the drop on it before it unleashes its fury. As a side note, it can be considered more balanced because of its weakness to Stealth Rock.

Dragonite lacks any real power unless it can dragon dance. Then it is a bulkier version of Salamence. Otherwise it is mostly fodder.

I personally believe that Garchomp should be brought back down OU or the pokemon listed above, especially Salamence, should be brought to the OU. It isn't just the these listed; Suicune, Zapdos, Heatran, and Blissey all change the entire structure of a match and the game as a whole. They possess the power to either cripple or sweep an entire team with little set up. They aren't indestructable, they just usually require two pokemon to counter.

 

[Tiomasta]

His ability sounds cool, but is only worth it in a sandstorm team with bright powder.

20% is quite a lot, buddy. Check out Fire Blast, it has 15% to miss, and you do see it miss, and you do see people change it for Flamethrower just for that 15% chance.

Sandstorm isn't rare(mainly because of OU Tyranitar).

And Bright Powder is banned because of the hax items rule, also.

Tyranitar can boost his speed to Adamant Garchomp levels with one Dragon Dance if Ev'ed properly. Additionally his typing and ability increase his base 100 Sp Def stat as soon as he enters play. I like him too, but this seems more unfair than Garchomp.

Yeah, but Tyranitar needs a turn to set up(unlike Garchomp) and wastes a move slot(unlike Garchomp).

Metagross is a defensive nightmare that only has two 200% weakness and no 400%. He is able to negate one of them with magnet rise and the other is not all that common. Also, he has the highest attack stat of this group
(135).

Meh, 130, 135, there's about no difference in that.
Magnet rise uses up a move slot, uses up a turn, and eliminates Metagross' ability as well(not that it's awesome or something, but it does protect you against Intimidates).

And Metagross is slow. Unlike Garchomp. And Metagross has no STAB Earthquake or STAB Outrage/Dragon Claw, unlike Garchomp.

Salamence has intimidate to account for its lower defense stat, but is easily the most OU pokemon of all time.

Garchomp was used even more than Salamence, when it was OU.

It has the ability to break any wall with a mixmence and is seldom countered.

But so does Garchomp.

Many pokemon such as Cradily, Bronzong, Porygon2, and Cresselia are listed as top counters, but only if they can get the drop on it before it unleashes its fury.

Just like Garchomp.

As a side note, it can be considered more balanced because of its weakness to Stealth Rock.

Unlike Garchomp, which actually resists Stealth Rock.

It isn't just the these listed; Suicune, Zapdos, Heatran, and Blissey all change the entire structure of a match and the game as a whole.

Garchomp beats all those 4.

Garchomp is superior.

 

[AZIIKO4876]

Because people complain about things they deam unfair to higher athorities and the higher ups get rid of whatever it is to make the masses happy.

Lots of people complained about Garchomp being to strong so Smogon banned it from (THEIR) play.

Why did they complain? They lost at a kids game and had a hissy fit.

If you want to argue it because of base stats..

There are many other pokemon that have 600 base stat that are not uber.

If your arguing that its speed is a issue and becuase "its stength and abilities are to much" <- (qouted by hundreds of people...sad) i have three extremely basic tools to help you.

type match ups(duh), first strike(duh), counter tactics(duh)

 

[Tiomasta]

type match ups(duh)

Sure, try using Ice Beam on Yachechomp and watch you die.

first strike(duh)

What?

counter tactics(duh)

Garchomp can't be countered.

 

[oooo]

Because people complain about things they deam unfair to higher athorities and the higher ups get rid of whatever it is to make the masses happy.

Lots of people complained about Garchomp being to strong so Smogon banned it from (THEIR) play.

Why did they complain? They lost at a kids game and had a hissy fit.

If you want to argue it because of base stats..

There are many other pokemon that have 600 base stat that are not uber.

If your arguing that its speed is a issue and becuase "its stength and abilities are to much" <- (qouted by hundreds of people...sad) i have three extremely basic tools to help you.

type match ups(duh), first strike(duh), counter tactics(duh)

Exactly why it was banned. Sure, it could be killed fairly easily - with the proper counter - but half of each team pretty much became Garchomp and a few Garchomp counters - he could be beaten, it just made the game too boring.

 

[randomspot555]

I won't deny that he hits hard and is kinda speedy,

He doesn't just hit hard and "kinda speedy." He has STAB on two of the best types in the game, and the only Pokemon those don't hit for at least neutral damage are Levitating Bronzong and Skarmory. And Garchomp gets Fire Fang/Flamethrower/Fire Blast for them.

He also has a unique base speed tier. That means all those base 100 Pokemon, he outspeeds.

Pairing him with a yache berry means Ice Shard is worthless.

His ability sounds cool, but is only worth it in a sandstorm team with bright powder.

It doesn't need Brightpowder. 20% evasion is good enough. And as someone who played while Chomp was in OU, Hippowdon and Tyranitar were almost always on the same team.

Tyranitar can boost his speed to Adamant Garchomp levels with one Dragon Dance if Ev'ed properly. Additionally his typing and ability increase his base 100 Sp Def stat as soon as he enters play. I like him too, but this seems more unfair than Garchomp.

Tyranitar is not the same Pokemon as Garchomp. Thanks for letting us know.

Metagross is a defensive nightmare that only has two 200% weakness and no 400%. He is able to negate one of them with magnet rise and the other is not all that common. Also, he has the highest attack stat of this group
(135).

You've mentioned two aspects of two Pokemon supposedly making them on par with Garchomp. But Garchomp doesn't need to set up to be speedy like Tyranitar, or lose a weakness like Metagross.

Salamence has intimidate to account for its lower defense stat, but is easily the most OU pokemon of all time. It has the ability to break any wall with a mixmence and is seldom countered. Many pokemon such as Cradily, Bronzong, Porygon2, and Cresselia are listed as top counters, but only if they can get the drop on it before it unleashes its fury. As a side note, it can be considered more balanced because of its weakness to Stealth Rock.

Dragonite lacks any real power unless it can dragon dance. Then it is a bulkier version of Salamence. Otherwise it is mostly fodder.

Comparing Garchomp to other Pokemon has absolutely nothing to do with him centralizing the competitive environment. All you're doing is saying Pokemon X and Pokemon Y are different.

It isn't just the these listed; Suicune, Zapdos, Heatran, and Blissey all change the entire structure of a match and the game as a whole.

You haven't even attempted to make the case that any of these Pokemon are as centralizing as Garchomp.

And Bright Powder is banned because of the hax items rule, also.

That is not part of standard rules on Shoddy, where the tiers come from. That is only a standard rule in the Battle Forum at SPPF.

Because people complain about things they deam unfair to higher athorities and the higher ups get rid of whatever it is to make the masses happy.

That isn't what happened at all. Shoddy tiers are not decided upon because someone comes to GPD on SPPF and makes a whiny post.

It sounds more like you're throwing a hissy fit. Quite ironic.

Exactly why it was banned. Sure, it could be killed fairly easily - with the proper counter - but half of each team pretty much became Garchomp and a few Garchomp counters - he could be beaten, it just made the game too boring.

This x10000000. Teams were literally Garchomp + 2 Garchomp "counters"+revenge killer in case Garchomp took out it's counters+2fillers.

 

[XDbonsly]

"Garchomp used Swords Dance!"

There goes half your team.

Oh look, Chomp has a Choice Scarf instead of using an SD set?
Its bound to kill something. Nothing outside of other Scarfers and Ice Shard users can outspeed it and do damage, and without a Pursuit weakness, nor SR problems, Chomp can just switch out, and come back in later causing just as much havok.

SANDSTORM UP?
You might have a chance to kill it!
Then....
You miss.
And lose.

Chomp is broken, 'nuff said.

 

[AZIIKO4876]

Sure, try using Ice Beam on Yachechomp and watch you die.


What?


Garchomp can't be countered.

You qouted one small part on the end of my vary long description.
weak arguement. including the fact that you said it can't be countered which is retarded. Sorry i don't suger coat the answers for you i'm not here to hand out candy lol
NEXT anyone?

its called a tank and i don't allow set up to dangerous degrees like 80% of people who play.

weaken it then first strike. pritty simple. i feel like i'm talking to people i just explained. ones that complain and don't know what they are doing. sad...i pitty anyone who can think of reasonable counter tactics to a garchomp. BTW either sowrds dance 333 max speed (can be out speed) OR scarf (switch and the garchomp is stuck)

@randomspot: did i say it was one post. no i did not...
Congrats you are officially a page skimmer. would you like a lemon for your eyes?

 

[HookShot]

I've got a bad feeling about this...

Now, that aside, Chompy is Uber because it was voted to good for OU. What with its combination of bulk, power, speed, and fantastic STABs, it's pretty easy to understand. I think that wraps up the basics. I think.

 

[randomspot555]

its called a tank and i don't allow set up to dangerous degrees like 80% of people who play.

Garchomp is rarely used as a tank. It's used as a sweeper/

It doesn't matter if you "don't allow it to set up". Garchomp doesn't even NEED to set up if it runs a Band or Scarf. SD sets are easily protected by Life Orb, and the best users of STAB Dragon are Mence and Dragonite, both weak to SR and take damage from sandstorm.

weaken it then first strike.

That's two Pokemon. Not a counter.

i pitty anyone who can think of reasonable counter tactics to a garchomp.

Ok...

 

[AZIIKO4876]

Garchomp is rarely used as a tank. It's used as a sweeper/

It doesn't matter if you "don't allow it to set up". Garchomp doesn't even NEED to set up if it runs a Band or Scarf. SD sets are easily protected by Life Orb, and the best users of STAB Dragon are Mence and Dragonite, both weak to SR and take damage from sandstorm.



That's two Pokemon. Not a counter.



Ok...

dude i didn't call grachomp a tank. i said. "its called a tank" as in use one when chomp is scarfed or to make his pysical capabilities sevearly weakend.

Do you need contacts or is it lemon time? because your deprived of some A-12, B and caretine

snd yes i would obvoiusly use the most used and broken pokemon and tactic. i wouldn't actually think i would just copy of smogon or some one else because i can't figure out that 1+1=banana. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *sarcasticly drools*

 

[Tiomasta]

You qouted one small part on the end of my vary long description.

So? The rest of it was you babbling about a kid's game or something, doesn't really have something to do with this.

weak arguement. including the fact that you said it can't be countered which is retarded. Sorry i don't suger coat the answers for you i'm not here to hand out candy lol
NEXT anyone?

its called a tank and i don't allow set up to dangerous degrees like 80% of people who play.

Okay, what part of your post was replying to what?
If you think that "Garchomp can't be countered" is retarded, then show a Garchomp counter.

weaken it then first strike. pritty simple. i feel like i'm talking to people i just explained. ones that complain and don't know what they are doing. sad...i pitty anyone who can think of reasonable counter tactics to a garchomp. BTW either sowrds dance 333 max speed (can be out speed) OR scarf (switch and the garchomp is stuck)

First strike? Do you mean a priority move?
And you mean, you "counter" Garchomps by damaging them, then using a priority move to finish it off?

You do know that "counter" is a poke which can switch in, survive and defeat it, right? I don't think that there is a poke which can switch in against Garchomp, "weaken it then first strike" to kill Garchomp and suceed.

 

[randomspot555]

dude i didn't call grachomp a tank. i said. "its called a tank" as in use one when chomp is scarfed or to make his pysical capabilities sevearly weakend.

Do you need contacts or is it lemon time? because your deprived of some A-12, B and caretine

snd yes i would obvoiusly use the most used and broken pokemon and tactic. i wouldn't actually think i would just copy of smogon or some one else because i can't figure out that 1+1=banana. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *sarcasticly drools*

It's not my fault your post is full of grammatical errors and lacks basic understanding of punctuation and capital letters.

Since you can't argue against my points and instead deal flame bait, I'm done with you.

 

[Final]

Garchomp is broken. You freaking need 269 Special Attack to OHKO the standard one with Ice Beam and even then it can be foiled. Also keep in mind that almost every OU Chomp counter doesn't hit that Special Attack. With Swords Dance, it can rip apart almost any team. With Choice Band, it doesn't need to set up and with Choice Scarf, it is a great revenge killer. It also has 2 great STAB types, no Stealth Rock weakness, a useable movepool, great Attack and Speed and good Defenses. With Sandstorm out, it gets even more broken with Ice Beam only hitting 80% of the time and missing Gliscor with Ice Beam is bad enough and that isn't even a threat (at least not to me). Missing something like Garchomp with it can cost you the game. In Ubers it is still dangerous. The standard Bold Lugia (one of the best Physical Walls in Ubers) can't counter it fully (unless its Scarfed) because Jolly Chomp outspeeds that Lugia and can OHKO it after Stealth Rock damage with a Swords Danced Stone Edge before Lugia can Reflect. The same applies for the Choice Bander but instead it is a 2HKO under those circumstances. Revenge killing it is made complicated because of Sandstorm because of the accuracy cut of the moves that can dispose of it. Dialga and Palkia if Scarfed can revenge kill it but Sandstorm can foil it. As can the Haban Berry as their Dragon moves will no longer OHKO.

 

[AZIIKO4876]

So? The rest of it was you babbling about a kid's game or something, doesn't really have something to do with this.



Okay, what part of your post was replying to what?
If you think that "Garchomp can't be countered" is retarded, then show a Garchomp counter.



First strike? Do you mean a priority move?
And you mean, you "counter" Garchomps by damaging them, then using a priority move to finish it off?

You do know that "counter" is a poke which can switch in, survive and defeat it, right? I don't think that there is a poke which can switch in against Garchomp, "weaken it then first strike" to kill Garchomp and suceed.

seems you also skim pages.

To every one here in thread: i am vary sarcatic and i get to the point if you don't like it idc. Also i have never been swept by a chomp i simply don't let it happen if you smart you can figure out how.

did i say you have to counter with one poke? no.
does it matter how you counter if it gets the job done? no.
am i hungy? yes. Am i bored? yes. Am i bored talking to you? yes. I'm i going to youtube? yea im outta here.

*talks to self* Its like talking to a wall you hit it with something and nothing gets through. *sigh* ....*eats some pizza*

 

[AB2]

*sigh* lol, AZIKIIO, (o mai gawd, closest I have ever been to spelling your name =D), anyways, I would like to contribute something a bit different to this, but on a side note, not ever being swept by a Garchomp is completely irrelevant, lol.

First of all, Garchomp in its own right is completely counter able, not easily but really what is "easy" really to counter in OU these days. Chomp may have great attack great STAB combo and a good ability, yeah so does Kabutops and he is UU, but anyways, what I am trying to say, Garchomp on its own isn't really THAT hard to counter, but Garchomp used by very smart players is practically unbeatable, or very hard to beat.

Now the every popular Yache Chomp that everyone is talking about in the right hands, and with the right team more importantly, can be deadly. I don't know what you have seen but mainly, when chomp was OU I saw him on just on regular teams, blatantly thrown onto a team with no real thought of how to support it.

Think of another popular sweeper for example, Dragon Dance Tyranitar, imo, it is much much more deadly if it gets a DD or two off and has Babiri Berry, but that is besides the point. Would Babiri Tar work better in sand or in regular conditions, or better yet hail? No, it wouldn't work to its full potential at least. The same goes for Garchomp, would it work better in sand or just regular conditions? It wouldn't work to its full potential once again.

The point here is that Garchomp itself isn't necessarily the MOST threatening one, albeit its ability to destroy teams, it is the combos of different pokes that support Garchomp that can help it truly go for a sweep. What I am trying to say is that Garchomp is very threatening yes, even in Ubers it is one of the largest threats, but more often than not, it will be the way the team is built and the person using it that will lead you to not be able to counter it.

Oh yeah EDIT: @ AZIIKIO, Chomps counters, use Ice Shard with Mamo/Weavile, hope that it hits don't finish it off, and bring in a choice scarfer that has an ice move, like Obamasnow to finish it, there is your counter.

 

[Mastadi]

The fact that people came up with stuff like choice scarf cresselia just to counter garchomp should be enough of a reason for it to be uber.

 

[randomspot555]

Oh yeah EDIT: @ AZIIKIO, Chomps counters, use Ice Shard with Mamo/Weavile, hope that it hits don't finish it off, and bring in a choice scarfer that has an ice move, like Obamasnow to finish it, there is your counter.

You just suggested using two Pokemon to counter.

If you need to use two Pokemon to counter, then the Pokemon can not be countered.

A counter is a Pokemon that can come in during a turn, take little to no damage, and either force a switch or quickly KO it.

Blissey is a counter to Starmie. Sure, it runs a risk of getting a Scarf/Specs on it, but Starmie will still be forced to switch out.

Weavile is not a Garchomp counter. It'll go down before it can even get a single move in.

 

[STICKTOPIA]

How can Garchomp be uber?

 

[AZIIKO4876]

*sigh* lol, AZIKIIO, (o mai gawd, closest I have ever been to spelling your name =D), anyways, I would like to contribute something a bit different to this, but on a side note, not ever being swept by a Garchomp is completely irrelevant, lol.

First of all, Garchomp in its own right is completely counter able, not easily but really what is "easy" really to counter in OU these days. Chomp may have great attack great STAB combo and a good ability, yeah so does Kabutops and he is UU, but anyways, what I am trying to say, Garchomp on its own isn't really THAT hard to counter, but Garchomp used by very smart players is practically unbeatable, or very hard to beat.

Now the every popular Yache Chomp that everyone is talking about in the right hands, and with the right team more importantly, can be deadly. I don't know what you have seen but mainly, when chomp was OU I saw him on just on regular teams, blatantly thrown onto a team with no real thought of how to support it.

Think of another popular sweeper for example, Dragon Dance Tyranitar, imo, it is much much more deadly if it gets a DD or two off and has Babiri Berry, but that is besides the point. Would Babiri Tar work better in sand or in regular conditions, or better yet hail? No, it wouldn't work to its full potential at least. The same goes for Garchomp, would it work better in sand or just regular conditions? It wouldn't work to its full potential once again.

The point here is that Garchomp itself isn't necessarily the MOST threatening one, albeit its ability to destroy teams, it is the combos of different pokes that support Garchomp that can help it truly go for a sweep. What I am trying to say is that Garchomp is very threatening yes, even in Ubers it is one of the largest threats, but more often than not, it will be the way the team is built and the person using it that will lead you to not be able to counter it.

Oh yeah EDIT: @ AZIIKIO, Chomps counters, use Ice Shard with Mamo/Weavile, hope that it hits don't finish it off, and bring in a choice scarfer that has an ice move, like Obamasnow to finish it, there is your counter.

*takes a bow* always my pleasure messing with the minds of other weither they be small or large. STOP BUCHERING MY NAME.

resonse to edit: Sums up what i've been trying to tell people. Unfortunately it didn't work....