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Why is it necessary?

Grass Guardian

Rags to Riches
NOTE:

I don't understand why it is necessary for someone to anounce in a public forum that they are gay. As I see it, it's like going on TV and anouncing, "I like S&M!" Should I care that you like the same sex? If so why? Shouldn't I like you because you are a nice person with similar intrests? What does ones sexuality have to do with competing on say, American Idol?

I don't really see this as something that's too hard to understand. Many, if not, most gay people try to hide the fact that they're gay at first. Then when they finally "come out" it's relieving. They're being who they are despite what people think. It is different from a heterosexual publicly stating "I'm straight," because there is no risk of backlash. It is something that is encouraged in society. But to announce to being gay is to risk ridicule, harassment, and hate. But knowing all that and still feeling determined to let the world know who you are despite any backlash is, I think, something very noble and brave. Coming out and publicly stating it can encourage other "closet homosexuals" to do the same and stop hiding who they are.

Why, is it that if someone respectfully disagrees with homosexuality they are labeled Homophobes?
Well I think this is when you should ask yourself, what is it you disagree with? You think it's perfectly fine and acceptable to say, "I respectfully disagree with homosexuality," yet how would you feel around someone who said, "I respectfully disagree with hanging out with black people." People cannot help the skin they are born with, yet they are discriminated against. Homosexuals are born gay and cannot help that and yet they are discriminated against. I ask what the difference is.

Is it wrong for a gay person to have a job where they can & will see undressed heterosexuals?

Absolutely not. Would it be wrong for a straight person to be in a job where they can and will see undressed homosexuals? If it is their profession then chances are they will treat it professionally as any straight person would. Seeing someone naked doesn't always have to mean anything sexual. Whether being a doctor or a sculptor they are seeing the human body as it is. Nothing more. Gay people are not attracted to every person they see just as I, a woman, am not attracted to every guy I meet.

Is it the same or different from a heterosexual man being the coach of say a womens volleyball team and walking into the shower while the ladies are undressed to give them a peptalk or information on when the bus is leaving? Is there a difference? I know I would be tempted and arroused if I was the volleyball coach I used for my example.

That's probably because you are not exposed to a locker room full of naked women everyday. If you were, chances are you would become desensitized to it in the same way that the camera guys that shoot pornography become desensitized. Then again, maybe not. Everyone is different. Some people can take that situation and see it in a professional light. I don't think I would have an issue walking through a locker room full of naked men. I'm a straight woman, but in that instance the men are just male bodies standing around. They have penises. Big deal.

Is getting creeped out by a gay come on any different than getting creeped out by an unatractive person (be it to heavy/ skinny et al).

There really is no need to get creeped out. If a gay man is coming onto you, just say "Look, I'm flattered, but I'm straight." Done. You're not being rude and you have let the guy know you are not interested. Chances are he'll look elsewhere. Now if he persists then yes it would be creepy and be considered harassment just as you would find it creepy to turn a girl down yet she still tries to slip love notes into your pocket and follows you home.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
I didn't mean it in that sense. It's ok to be either sexuality. My point was that if you find homosexuality wrong, you are generaly counted as a homophobe. Obviously they find women 'icky' they're gay. That generally means that you don't like women.
Which is almost as bad as being called a Bigot. Everyone has the right of free choice. If for instance I don't agree with gay rights, it is my right to have that belief even if I am the only person on the planet who feels that way. It's not homophobic in the least. It's free will, and freedom of choice. As I have said before, gays should be allowed to marry, why should they have a get out of relations free card? The last bit was delivered tongue in cheek!


I meant that if you 'ewwed' as in 'eww a homosexual' rather than not being sexually attracted to the sex of the person you're 'ewwing' at.
My god that sounded weird
Yes. Yes it did ;) But is there really a difference? Be it ugliness or gender preference, Eww means the same thing, "You discust me." Why is one more right than another.

One thing I don't understand are people who use the Bible to talk down homosexuals, and yet they don't follow the "Holy Law" themselves.
I hate it when people do that, but I try to stay away from gay kids at skool.
Bible verse says in really pretty words, "gay is bad". Which is SO totally the written by man proof in the bible, cause would god love all his creations period?

But why would anyone be against Gay rights? Unless you are a bigot then you cannot deny the rights of gays. They are here and account for 10% of America. You have to give them rights.
Because they have the right to have their own opinion! It may be just one person in the whole world, but it is their right to think what they want about any topic they want to. That's why its FREE will.
 

bel9

n3w 2 sppf :3
@malanu look at my definitions of homophobia I posted. If you deny a homosexual man or woman his or her rights you are discriminating against that individual. Homophobia includes discrimination and antipathy.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
@malanu look at my definitions of homophobia I posted. If you deny a homosexual man or woman his or her rights you are discriminating against that individual. Homophobia includes discrimination and antipathy.
What is the feeling is Apathy. Just not caring enough to have an opinion? I still don't see why someone must be for something if they really don't want to. I'm a Republican (somewhat) my Union brothers are Democrat (mostly) They don't like my stance, but that is their inalianable right to feel that way. Isn't it the same for straight/gay views?
 

bel9

n3w 2 sppf :3
What is the feeling is Apathy. Just not caring enough to have an opinion? I still don't see why someone must be for something if they really don't want to. I'm a Republican (somewhat) my Union brothers are Democrat (mostly) They don't like my stance, but that is their inalianable right to feel that way. Isn't it the same for straight/gay views?

You have a right not to care. However, if you are discriminating against a homosexual individual, you a homophobe by definition. I think you said you had homosexual friends earlier. You do not have an antipathy toward homosexuality. You're not a homophobe.

There is a difference between having an antipathy for someone's sexuality and saying "eww, the opposite gender is icky."
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
You have a right not to care. However, if you are discriminating against a homosexual individual, you a homophobe by definition. I think you said you had homosexual friends earlier. You do not have an antipathy toward homosexuality. You're not a homophobe.

There is a difference between having an antipathy for someone's sexuality and saying "eww, the opposite gender is icky."
I only call them that when I want to discribe them in a topic like this one. To me they are my friends. So what if the person feels apathy towards gays? Does that constitute as hompphobic? I would think indiference would not be classified as against them. Hold on

Antipathy is dislike for something or somebody, the opposite of sympathy. While antipathy may be induced by previous experience, it sometimes exists without a rational cause-and-effect explanation being present to the individuals involved.
Doesn't that mean that excuse someone from being Homophobic? There is no hatred, they just don't like that group of people, much like I don't like anchovies for instance, or tall people, or flannel shirts. There's nothing wrong with not liking something/someone so long as that dislike doesn't lead to an illegal act. If we had to like something because we are made to doesn't that violate our freedom of choice?
 
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I only call them that when I want to discribe them in a topic like this one. To me they are my friends. So what if the person feels apathy towards gays? Does that constitute as hompphobic? I would think indiference would not be classified as against them.

homophobic means ur afraid of gays
 

bel9

n3w 2 sppf :3
I only call them that when I want to discribe them in a topic like this one. To me they are my friends. So what if the person feels apathy towards gays? Does that constitute as hompphobic? I would think indiference would not be classified as against them.

You keep asking the same question. By definition, apathy doesn't make you a homophobe. But when that apathy stands in the way of their rights, that apathy becomes discrimination.
 

GaZsTiC

Alternating
homophobic means ur afraid of gays

It is not as straightforward as that. For example, an Islamophobe may not actually fear Muslims but would still discriminate against them.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
You keep asking the same question. By definition, apathy doesn't make you a homophobe. But when that apathy stands in the way of their rights, that apathy becomes discrimination.
Hmm I'll have to reflect on that one. I don't believe that assertion but that doesn't mean you're wrong. I'll think about it though.
 

bel9

n3w 2 sppf :3
Doesn't that mean that excuse someone from being Homophobic? There is no hatred, they just don't like that group of people, much like I don't like anchovies for instance, or tall people, or flannel shirts.

Watch what you say. You are talking about a wide group of people, some of which do hate homosexuals and discriminate against them.

There's nothing wrong with not liking something/someone so long as that dislike doesn't lead to an illegal act. If we had to like something because we are made to doesn't that violate our freedom of choice?

No one is forcing you to like anything. I never said you had to like anyone or anything. You are putting words into my mouth.

However, if you are discriminating against these other people because of their sexuality then you are getting in the way of their freedom.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
Watch what you say. You are talking about a wide group of people, some of which do hate homosexuals and discriminate against them.
I do not dispute that, I am trying to get a better understanding why the apathetic get lumped in with the haters.



No one is forcing you to like anything. I never said you had to like anyone or anything. You are putting words into my mouth.
If I have I apologize. That is not my intent at all. Forgive me.

However, if you are discriminating against these other people because of their sexuality then you are getting in the way of their freedom.
But is not caring either way discriminating? To me discriminating means you are actively working against another. By not taking a stand you haven't supported either side. That's how I see it. Is it wrong?
 

Blackjack the Titan

It’s been a while
People are just different. That's the problem. We all have different views, but those who are on similar sides of a topic group up, which could pressure those who don't have the same views to change their perspective.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
Very well thought out GG. I like your arguements.
I don't really see this as something that's too hard to understand. Many, if not, most gay people try to hide the fact that they're gay at first. Then when they finally "come out" it's relieving. They're being who they are despite what people think. It is different from a heterosexual publicly stating "I'm straight," because there is no risk of backlash. It is something that is encouraged in society. But to announce to being gay is to risk ridicule, harassment, and hate. But knowing all that and still feeling determined to let the world know who you are despite any backlash is, I think, something very noble and brave. Coming out and publicly stating it can encourage other "closet homosexuals" to do the same and stop hiding who they are.
I do see what you're saying to a degree but I can't quite form a rebuttal that doesn't sound to wonky to me. I will say that it may be true that using a "large audience" to out oneself can be liberating, as often as I see it on shows like Idol, it begins to wear me out to think that it is often being used as a means to earn a sympothy vote.


Well I think this is when you should ask yourself, what is it you disagree with? You think it's perfectly fine and acceptable to say, "I respectfully disagree with homosexuality," yet how would you feel around someone who said, "I respectfully disagree with hanging out with black people." People cannot help the skin they are born with, yet they are discriminated against. Homosexuals are born gay and cannot help that and yet they are discriminated against. I ask what the difference is.
If someone doesn't want to hang out with me for whatever reason, I don't care. It's their loss. There is no difference when it comes to discrimination. People here discriminate against me all the time, be it for the cloths I wear, the way I talk, the way I act, how old I am or the beliefs I have. Everyone is discriminated against by one group or another. Just like a gay person I have to deal with it every day. I am in that most hated group, I am a white american male! How many groups of people hate on me just because of those titles? It's the people that "just don't care" that I can make friends with... or not, based on who I am not what group I'm in. Anyway, I'm rambling, sorry.


Absolutely not. Would it be wrong for a straight person to be in a job where they can and will see undressed homosexuals? If it is their profession then chances are they will treat it professionally as any straight person would. Seeing someone naked doesn't always have to mean anything sexual. Whether being a doctor or a sculptor they are seeing the human body as it is. Nothing more. Gay people are not attracted to every person they see just as I, a woman, am not attracted to every guy I meet.
To a straight man a naked gay man is just the same as the next striaght man next to him, there is no attaction... maybe some Jealousy depending on the dangly bits. Yes But how comfortable would a locker full of women be knowing/thinking you MIGHT be turned on? It's the "privacy" thing. I ask the question because I see both sides of the issue, and I wonder what the rest of you feel. I personally would feel violated in the same manner as if a woman walked into the room and I was naked.

That's probably because you are not exposed to a locker room full of naked women everyday. If you were, chances are you would become desensitized to it in the same way that the camera guys that shoot pornography become desensitized. Then again, maybe not. Everyone is different. Some people can take that situation and see it in a professional light. I don't think I would have an issue walking through a locker room full of naked men. I'm a straight woman, but in that instance the men are just male bodies standing around. They have penises. Big deal.
Oh I doubt the camera guy gets desensitized to sexy women due to porn, It's the mechanics of the scene that gets routine. I wish my wife were more confident like you say... I think its funny that as an MA she won't say/write the word penis even though it's the clinical term. Actually it's kinda an endearing quality all the same.



There really is no need to get creeped out. If a gay man is coming onto you, just say "Look, I'm flattered, but I'm straight." Done. You're not being rude and you have let the guy know you are not interested. Chances are he'll look elsewhere. Now if he persists then yes it would be creepy and be considered harassment just as you would find it creepy to turn a girl down yet she still tries to slip love notes into your pocket and follows you home.
It's only the full court press that would make me "uncomfortable", I've dealt with a few come ons in my days in Cali, I have always been polite. Like I may have said before, I give everyone the respect they earn, as I hope they offer me the same. ;)
 

No. 1 Machop Fan

Well-Known Member
I couldn't care less if someone is gay or not (as long as they don't get too sexual), as long as they're friendly.
 

Corroded Arceus

Shiny Hunter
Being someone with a very fluid sexuality, I think I can answer - based on my own opinions.

I don't understand why it is necessary for someone to anounce in a public forum that they are gay. As I see it, it's like going on TV and anouncing, "I like S&M!" Should I care that you like the same sex? If so why? Shouldn't I like you because you are a nice person with similar intrests? What does ones sexuality have to do with competing on say, American Idol?

I agree with you to a point. When people go I'M GAY I'M GAY I'M GAY every two seconds, it gets annoying.
But people have the right to talk about the same sex in the same way that straight people talk about the opposite sex. They should be able to tell a story about their partner if they are of the same sex, or talk about a celebrity they find attractive of the same sex to friends. It's about equality.

Why, is it that if someone respectfully disagrees with homosexuality they are labeled Homophobes?

Depends what you mean by respectfully "disagreeing". If you mean saying: "Well, that's your lifestyle, it doesn't affect me but I don't particularly want to engage in it", then that's not homophobia to me. But when people are so against homophobia that they would deny LGBT people rights that straight folk have, I consider that homophobic.

Is it wrong for a gay person to have a job where they can & will see undressed heterosexuals?

Is it wrong for a straight man to have a job where they can & will see undressed lesbian women? Or vice versa?

Is it the same or different from a heterosexual man being the coach of say a womens volleyball team and walking into the shower while the ladies are undressed to give them a peptalk or information on when the bus is leaving? Is there a difference? I know I would be tempted and arroused if I was the volleyball coach I used for my example.

I don't think so, because personally I think it would be inappropriate for a female coach - straight, gay or dinosaur - to walk into a room where there are naked women. Maybe I'm just a prude though.

Is getting creeped out by a gay come on any different than getting creeped out by an unatractive person (be it to heavy/ skinny et al).
Depends by what you mean by 'creeped on'.

Gay people should be allowed to like straight people of the same sex without being judged as creepy. If ANYONE acts on those feelings when they know the other person isn't interested, well, that's just immoral and disrespectful.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
Thanks for your input CA
Being someone with a very fluid sexuality, I think I can answer - based on my own opinions.



I agree with you to a point. When people go I'M GAY I'M GAY I'M GAY every two seconds, it gets annoying.
But people have the right to talk about the same sex in the same way that straight people talk about the opposite sex. They should be able to tell a story about their partner if they are of the same sex, or talk about a celebrity they find attractive of the same sex to friends. It's about equality.
Equality is good.



Depends what you mean by respectfully "disagreeing". If you mean saying: "Well, that's your lifestyle, it doesn't affect me but I don't particularly want to engage in it", then that's not homophobia to me. But when people are so against homophobia that they would deny LGBT people rights that straight folk have, I consider that homophobic.
Exactly my meaning.



Is it wrong for a straight man to have a job where they can & will see undressed lesbian women? Or vice versa?
In my view absolutely it's wrong. A straight man does not belong in a ladies locker room while its in use. It is inapropriate. I'm old fashion that way.



I don't think so, because personally I think it would be inappropriate for a female coach - straight, gay or dinosaur - to walk into a room where there are naked women. Maybe I'm just a prude though.
Yeah... that's prudish by my relaxed standard.


Depends by what you mean by 'creeped on'.

Gay people should be allowed to like straight people of the same sex without being judged as creepy. If ANYONE acts on those feelings when they know the other person isn't interested, well, that's just immoral and disrespectful.
yeah, I had a creep out moment when I was a Marine. My friends & I got a motel room and were drinking and feeling rather randy. One of my friends went to get more mix for the booze and aske me to try to woo this woman in to party. I did, she wanted to bring a friend, I said the more the merrier. When she went to get her friend, I told my buddy we just invited a guy to party with us! Yeah he/she was a transgender (FullOp) 'woman'. After getting to the room, I addressed the issue by saying it was cool, we'd share our drinks, but I was not interested in anything more than that. I woke up to being Fellated (is that even a real word?) and was not at all happy! I had made it politely clear I was not interested. That was an Eww moment to me.
 
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