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Why is ok for guys to have sex but not girls?

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cannibaleyes

Holier Than Thou
I'm almost 99.99999999999% sure that the root of women's mistreatment in Christianity is deeper than that. And by deeper I mean the creation myth of Christianity.
Personally, I've always felt that "women's mistreatment" due to the Christianity myth was more due to people having a very narrow-minded view of the myth.

Okay, so Eve was tricked by Satan.
Adam was fooled by a woman.
Really, if women are really such silly creatures, then doesn't that make men even more silly for being fooled by one?
Not to mention that Satan is a pretty powerful force, considering everything. I'd say he might have a few more tricks up his sleeve than a single human being, so he probably had his own ways to help him trick Eve easier.
/endtangentsoapbox
 

bel9

n3w 2 sppf :3
Personally, I've always felt that "women's mistreatment" due to the Christianity myth was more due to people having a very narrow-minded view of the myth.

Okay, so Eve was tricked by Satan.
Adam was fooled by a woman.
Really, if women are really such silly creatures, then doesn't that make men even more silly for being fooled by one?
Not to mention that Satan is a pretty powerful force, considering everything. I'd say he might have a few more tricks up his sleeve than a single human being, so he probably had his own ways to help him trick Eve easier.
/endtangentsoapbox

And then there is the development of the character, lilith, who took the role of Adam's first wife in Jewish mythology and became recognized by Christianity in the middle ages as a child-eating demon. What was her sin? Her big sin was not wanting to do missionary every time they had sex. Also, you say that our views come solely from mistranslations of the myths but I'm pretty confident Eve's naivete is in the myth for the specific purpose of justifying that men were superior to women. The Abrahamic religions weren't the only ones to do it.
 
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intergalactic platypus

Only rescues maidens
Personally, I've always felt that "women's mistreatment" due to the Christianity myth was more due to people having a very narrow-minded view of the myth.

Okay, so Eve was tricked by Satan.
Adam was fooled by a woman.
Really, if women are really such silly creatures, then doesn't that make men even more silly for being fooled by one?
Not to mention that Satan is a pretty powerful force, considering everything. I'd say he might have a few more tricks up his sleeve than a single human being, so he probably had his own ways to help him trick Eve easier.
/endtangentsoapbox

Your fundemental argument is incorrect, because Christianity did not necessarily argue women were silly so much as they were devious, evil, and inherently sinful. This was especially prevalent in the Medieval church.

And I mentioned Augustine of Hippo because he wrote widely on how people should not have sex for non-procreative purposes, and how the most holy way to live was actually no sexual relations ever. It seemed to pertain to the topic.
 

cannibaleyes

Holier Than Thou
And then there is the development of the character, lilith, who took the role of Adam's first wife in Jewish mythology and became recognized by Christianity in the middle ages as a child eating demon. What was her sin? Her big sin was not wanting to do missionary every time they had sex. Also, you say that our views come solely from mistranslations of the myths but I'm pretty confident Eve's naivete is in the myth for the specific purpose of justifying that men were superior to women. The Abrahamic religions weren't the only ones to do it.
I guess my point was that if you think about it, Adam was technically just a s naive. They both were pretty naive before the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That was the whole point.
Meh, what do I know? I don't read the Bible. It's just that the whole "Eve is why women are oppressed" argument always kind of bothered me because it didn't make a whole lot of sense to me why so many people interpreted Eve as the dumb one but Adam as smart when they BOTH ended up getting deceived...

I don't think that all of our views came solely from misunderstood myths; just the Eve thing.

Of course, religion is a whole other topic in itself...

Your fundemental argument is incorrect, because Christianity did not necessarily argue women were silly so much as they were devious, evil, and inherently sinful. This was especially prevalent in the Medieval church.
Like I said, what do I know?
It still doesn't really explain why Adam is seen as better. And it still doesn't change the fact that they were both silly. Christians today don't necessarily follow the exact same dogma that they did in Medieval times...

EDIT: And honestly, if I'm not making and sense, it's probably due to the fact that I'm extremely tired. I think I'll go to bed now and see if I can think up a better way of explaining my stance some other day...
 
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bel9

n3w 2 sppf :3
It still doesn't really explain why Adam is seen as better. And it still doesn't change the fact that they were both silly. Christians today don't necessarily follow the exact same dogma that they did in Medieval times...

Following medieval dogma isn't normal. But on catholicism it is. It doesn't have to be currently followed for it to have influenced the religion.
 

chuboy

<- It was THIS big!
Come on guys, everyone knows God isn't real and the Bible is at best a highly convincing fictional text, somewhat like The Da Vinci Code. Let's not dilute the intelligence of the discussion by referencing Christianity.
 

Nyter

Island Challenger
I believe there should be equality... Therefore (just like girls) for all us guys who had sex before marriage, WE ARE SLUTS!

But seriously it is sexism but certain people can't get past that. I know girls end up with the consequences of unprotected sex but to me a slut is a person (guy or girl) who has unprotected sex and usually catches an STD.

Otherwise, If you are a person who has lots and lots of sex but it's all PROTECTED sex, I don't think that person is a slut... What that person is is SMART!

This is all speaking from a pre-marital view.
 

Rave

Banned
Cuz the media said so.
 

Lord_Kain

Just call me Kain
because its so much easier for you to get some than it is for us. were just jealous is all
 

NimhShambler

Some Broke Machine
Where do you live and how old are you, OP?

Once you are an adult, and if you live around where I do, everyone does it. Hell, I am considered a freak for not doing it. I'm the only 22 year old virgin I know. It is by choice, just as it is there choice to do that.

It's not that I don't like sex. I love the hell out of the notion of it, and can't wait to start. That's one of the perks of getting married. Let's put it this way. My husband won't need pants...ever.


Also, for a cartoon I'm working on, I've been watching a lot of sex-ed films. In every single one, boys are taught how to masturbate, but it isn't brought up in girls' films. Why? We do it, too. You can even do it without being "broken."

It feels good, and relieves tension. Why not?
 

chuboy

<- It was THIS big!
Because that would be discussing girls masturbating, possibly in front of adolescent boys.

[img139]http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/think_of_the_children_186.jpg[/img139]

To be honest a lot of Murkan schoolkids should consider themselves lucky that overbearing family advocates even let them learn about sex. Learning that girls masturbate is too much to ask for the 21st century.
 
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NimhShambler

Some Broke Machine
No, no.

You're in Australia, so it may be different there, but here we have one set of films for girls, and one set for boys....In America.

Yes, we have one per set that simply talks about basic differences between male and female, but the ones that are "in depth" are broken into gender sets.

In old ones (from the 40's) they told girls to NOT BATHE during the period. Stupid...so stupid. You'll stink like a paper mill if you do that.
 

chuboy

<- It was THIS big!
There you go. I think you answered your own question about a backwards stance on sexual education when you brought up gender-based segregation in said class.

The problem, like I said, lies with crazy conservative parents.
 

Abstinence Pistols

Well-Known Member
While I agree that that was irrelevant I am confused as to why you blame our Christian roots.

In order to rise to power over the more common pagan, feminine-dominant religions, the Christian church launched a smear campaign against the female sex. There claim had to do with the sins of Eve, though I'm unfamiliar with their exact words. Women were cast out as the inferior gender, and the Latin word paganus, meaning country-dwellers - the ones who typically held strong to the older, nature-worshipping religions - was turned into pagan and feared as Satanic. Midwives were executed for easing the pain of childbirth, which the Church claimed was woman's rightful suffering for Eve's sins. That was pretty much the root of most sexism in the modern world.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
How I see it, a man who has had sex with many women is considered lucky by other men because women are known to be... choosy. So a man with a plethora of "conquests" is envied for their seductive prowess.

A woman who has sex with many different partners is sought out by men for "experience". So that when they decide to settle down, they can know what to do with their chosen life partner. Men are easy to get into bed, so women and men alike, don't see this as an admirable trait.

Neither men nor women want to marry a "****", but they also want to be satisfied when pressing flesh. After all as a married woman once said to me, "You don't buy a car without checking under the hood!"

It's a double standard but one with some psychology behind it.
 

Geekachu

_____________
Re: Why is ok for guys to have sex but not girls?

This is quite a horribly mysoginistic joke albeit hilarious I once heard:

A key that can open many doors is a great key, however a door that can be opened by many keys is a crap door.

EDIT: Darn, beaten to it. Should've read first page. Idiot me.
 

ScytheSwipe

Its whats for dinner
Considering that I am a woman who enjoys having full legal personhood and wishes to continue this, as well as dismantling compulsory gender roles and social and institutional inequality, the answer would be yes.
Ah I see, well perhaps I do not know what the correct definition of a feminist is. I understand and respect this position that you speak of and it's good to know you are not randomly burning bras XD

I don't think guys who sleep around are any better or worse than girls that do. As long as it's consentual is it really anyone elses' business?

Does anyone actually care? Giddy highschool teeny-boppers and the writers of shows aimed at giddy highschool teeny-boppers excluded, of course.

I somewhat agree with this take on it. I mean I agree with the 1st sentence and then it's really downhill on the agreement wagon from there. It all depends on the age of this consenual thing really as to whether or not ppl should care. Everybody has rights and everybody has business but I think npeople should consider that, while I may not infringe on your right, I will possibly avoid your business based on what you are putting out there.

Once you are an adult, and if you live around where I do, everyone does it. Hell, I am considered a freak for not doing it. I'm the only 22 year old virgin I know. It is by choice, just as it is there choice to do that.

It's not that I don't like sex. I love the hell out of the notion of it, and can't wait to start. That's one of the perks of getting married. Let's put it this way. My husband won't need pants...ever.


Also, for a cartoon I'm working on, I've been watching a lot of sex-ed films. In every single one, boys are taught how to masturbate, but it isn't brought up in girls' films. Why? We do it, too. You can even do it without being "broken."

It feels good, and relieves tension. Why not?
I think I love you...
No, no.

You're in Australia, so it may be different there, but here we have one set of films for girls, and one set for boys....In America.

Yes, we have one per set that simply talks about basic differences between male and female, but the ones that are "in depth" are broken into gender sets.

In old ones (from the 40's) they told girls to NOT BATHE during the period. Stupid...so stupid. You'll stink like a paper mill if you do that.
No, I definetly love you lol! I'm not just saying this for teh lulz or because "all men want sex" thing, but because I understand and applaud your approach.

Myself, being 20, it isn't really the cool thing to be a virgin, but I believe it should be the smarter/more respectable approach. In fact if somebody asks about you sex life and I reply they are like lol whut?! in disbelief.. Oh well I'm not even in grad school yet so I got a long ways to go *sigh*

Boys and girls should be taught equally while I encourage initially separate rooms for this kinda sex ed discussion. And yes I agree with you the inequality on this topic. It is obviously there and rather unfair.
 
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Dragonfree

Just me
Ah I see, well perhaps I do not know what the correct definition of a feminist is. I understand and respect this position that you speak of and it's good to know you are not randomly burning bras XD
Bra-burnings never actually happened; it's a myth made up to make feminists look silly and encourage people not to take them seriously.

Feminism is about achieving equality between the sexes and abolishing the many gender-related double standards and expectations that harm people of all genders in different ways every day. There are occasional nuts who hate men and call themselves feminists, but the fact is for any ideology or movement whatsoever you can find nuts within it who don't represent the whole.

Anyway, it's a double standard rooted in the same elements of Western culture that underlie polygyny and the standard of men proposing to women instead of the other way around (and likewise men asking the women to dance, etc.). Men are traditionally supposed to be the ones to approach the woman, while the woman chooses whether to accept or reject him (that role having been given to her over her father as times changed). People admire men who sleep with many women because that means they have been "accepted" by many different women, which indicates they're widely viewed as desirable. Women who sleep with many men, on the other hand, are just seen as having low standards for who they're ready to "accept".

Or, in other words, that awful joke about the key and lock is actually pretty accurate about the attitudes that gave birth to the double standard.

Of course, if people realized consciously that that's the reason behind this whole thing instead of having internalized it as a women=****s thing, they ought to reverse the standard for modern situations where the woman is the one to approach the man, because then he's the chooser and she's the one being evaluated as desirable. Plus that today men are really in just as much of a position to accept/reject as women, since even when they do the approaching they have every opportunity to be picky about who to approach (instead of being expected to find a respectable woman to marry when they get to a certain age), so we ought to be decrying them as ****s if their standards are loose, too.

Or maybe, you know, we should just ditch the whole idea of people being ****s if they have too much sex to begin with and let what adults do consensually in their bedrooms be their own business.


They taught female masturbation in the sex ed videos they showed us in ninth grade, to a chorus of "EWWW" from both the boys and girls in the class. The male masturbation bits drew more laughs, but that's probably largely because cartoon penises are just funnier and less gross-looking than cartoon vaginas.

The more disturbing part was that they had two kids narrating it who were probably teenagers in order for us to relate to them better but unfortunately sounded about nine years old. There is something deeply unsettling about hearing what sounds like a cheery little girl's voice piping up about how penis size doesn't matter.
 
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ScytheSwipe

Its whats for dinner
My comments in BOLD
Bra-burnings never actually happened; it's a myth made up to make feminists look silly and encourage people not to take them seriously. Oh okay well they suceeded with the silly..

Feminism is about achieving equality between the sexes and abolishing the many gender-related double standards and expectations that harm people of all genders in different ways every day. There are occasional nuts who hate men and call themselves feminists, but the fact is for any ideology or movement whatsoever you can find nuts within it who don't represent the whole. Wow alright this is starting to make sense to me! Unfortunately the first people I came across in reality were the nuts so they just gave me a bad impression on the whole. Perspective officially changed thanks goes to Dragonfree

Anyway, it's a double standard rooted in the same elements of Western culture that underlie polygyny and the standard of men proposing to women instead of the other way around (and likewise men asking the women to dance, etc.). Men are traditionally supposed to be the ones to approach the woman, while the woman chooses whether to accept or reject him (that role having been given to her over her father as times changed). People admire men who sleep with many women because that means they have been "accepted" by many different women, which indicates they're widely viewed as desirable. Women who sleep with many men, on the other hand, are just seen as having low standards for who they're ready to "accept". In a perfect world I would like it to be the other way around from time to time so I'm not always the idiot and I'm not always having to be pressured to make initial contact based solely on my sex.

Or, in other words, that awful joke about the key and lock is actually pretty accurate about the attitudes that gave birth to the double standard.

Of course, if people realized consciously that that's the reason behind this whole thing instead of having internalized it as a women=****s thing, they ought to reverse the standard for modern situations where the woman is the one to approach the man, because then he's the chooser and she's the one being evaluated as desirable. Plus that today men are in just as much of a position to accept/reject than women, since even when they do the approaching they're the ones that decide whether and who and when to approach (rather than being expected to go after the daughters of the most powerful men in the vicinity when they reach a certain age because they're supposed to get married), so we ought to be decrying them as ****s if their standards are loose, too.

Or maybe, you know, we should just ditch the whole idea of people being ****s if they have too much sex to begin with and let what adults do consensually in their bedrooms be their own business.
Yes I believe it is their business but at the same time I want to know what public opinion is and why so that I may take my own stance bearing these in mind. The acts of sexual relations rely on having 2 (or more yuck) people so naturally I need to know what other people think if I ever hope to one day comfortably have these relations with a significant other.


They taught female masturbation in the sex ed videos they showed us in ninth grade, to a chorus of "EWWW" from both the boys and girls in the class. The male masturbation bits drew more laughs, but that's probably largely because cartoon penises are just funnier and less gross-looking than cartoon vaginas.

The more disturbing part was that they had two kids narrating it who were probably teenagers in order for us to relate to them better but unfortunately sounded about nine years old. There is something deeply unsettling about hearing what sounds like a cheery little girl's voice piping up about how penis size doesn't matter. This is just w0w. Oh iceland you and your cartoon porn seems to encourage equality while at the same time slighty creep me out.
 

Dragonfree

Just me
This is just w0w. Oh iceland you and your cartoon porn seems to encourage equality while at the same time slighty creep me out.
Actually I think the cartoon was originally Danish and they just dubbed it. I could be wrong, but.

I just thought up a better analogy for the cultural thing. Courtship used to work kind of like getting into college, with men as the applicants and women as the colleges. There is a lot of pressure on the men to go to college (get married), so they apply to the best colleges (women) they can hope to get into (...yeah). The colleges (women), meanwhile, just sit there and accept or reject people. The social attitudes that build up around this system are to approve of men who get into a lot of good colleges (have sex with a lot of women), and disapprove of colleges (women) that accept practically everyone. Then the system starts to change but nobody notices because the attitudes aren't consciously connected to the system anymore.
 
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