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Why the mixed reception in the PMD series?

H

hawkmbl

Curious
Like, when Red and Blue rescue team came out, they were blasted with mixed scores, even though they were very fun and good games.

And Explorers of Sky has gotten the worst case of it, with more reviews being bad due to the similarity to EOT/EOD.

But that purposes a question...

Why? Why do the PMD games always get such low scores for no reason at all? It confuses me, considering how other similar games are rated much higher...
 
R

Rakurai

Well-Known Member
People tend to have a love or hate relationship with roguelikes in general, and PMD has likely been the first exposure many have had to that style of gameplay.
 
H

hawkmbl

Curious
Hmm... But Ys on the Turbographix 16 back in the day got near perfect reviews, and it plays exactly the same.... So why is PMD not given the same love?
 
R

Rakurai

Well-Known Member
Ys is an action RPG, which is a different thing entirely.

The defining traits of a typical roguelike are randomized dungeons, turn based combat, and harsh death penalties.
 
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Griff4815

Griff4815

No. 1 Grovyle Fan
With all the rabid PMD fans that are around, it's hardly accurate to say the series is being victimised. Not everybody around shares the same opinions on the series, I'm sure, and I bet that whatever mixed or negative reviews the games got will explain why they didn't like it.
 
H

hawkmbl

Curious
Griff4815 said:
With all the rabid PMD fans that are around, it's hardly accurate to say the series is being victimised. Not everybody around shares the same opinions on the series, I'm sure, and I bet that whatever mixed or negative reviews the games got will explain why they didn't like it.
Click to expand...

I know. But some of the reviews don't even make sense. Some reviews didn't even mention the fact that you can use moves! (They thought the bash was it)
 
R

Rakurai

Well-Known Member
Stupid reviewers have, and always shall exist.

Some of them don't even give the games they review more then a hour or two before they draw conclusions about it.
 
H

hawkmbl

Curious
Rakurai said:
Stupid reviewers have, and always shall exist.

Some of them don't even give the games they review more then a hour or two before they draw conclusions about it.
Click to expand...

I guess you are right. But still, considering how Red rescue team is my favorite game (In HISTORY), It saddens me to see it bashed for the stupidest reasons...
 
O

Orithan

Well-Known Member
The all I can say is that PMD has mixed reviews for two solid reasons.

The first is that people may not like rougelikes in general which I imagine is not uncommon because, from my experience, that it is an uncommon genre (I didn't even know that PMD was a rouge-like until I discovered that it was here). Sad, but people WILL review these sorts of games disregarding the genre because they may be unfamiliar with said genre.

The second reason is that PMD has a lot of balance issues, with PMD1 arguably being the more balanced of the two. Spite and Grudge, in particular, are very unforgiving moves because they drain the PP of the last attack you used to zero. Perish Song is worse, affecting every pokemon on the floor with an incurable condition that causes them to faint in three turns, but there is only like a 10% chance of it working on any given pokemon and so is arguably more forgiving than Spite/Grudge. In PMD2, you encounter OP Starly on Mount Bristle, in Sky you find Buneary that do 45 damage with Frustration in Foggy Forest, Sand Veil/Snow Cloak can easily wear you down in a game of luck, Focus Punch can actually OHKO some of the bosses (given the right conditions, which can be easy if you end up as a Riolu, which I did in Sky) when you are like Level 55 - 60 in the postgame dungeons and the Drifloon/Dribifloon in Chasm Cave can easily sweep you with Unburden Ominous Wind.
Those are just some of the more bigger balancing issues I have with the games. P.S.: Don't get me started on the PP-Zero and Pitfall traps...
 
R

Rakurai

Well-Known Member
PMD is extremely tame by typical roguelike standards; the ability to get rescued being one of the biggest conveniences.

The genre basically delights in having various ways to give you a quick, unexpected demise. Pretty much all of the things you mentioned can be dealt with in one way or another, though (My preferred method being to simply not allow any Pokemon to get close enough to use threatening moves by loading up on ranged attacks). Even Perish Song can be removed by using a Heal Seed or Healing Wish (Which can be linked to a recovery move on most of its users to offset the HP loss).
 
3

33Whimsicott33

Sheep
Rakurai said:
People tend to have a love or hate relationship with roguelikes in general, and PMD has likely been the first exposure many have had to that style of gameplay.
Click to expand...

It's pretty much this. Especially if you go around and look at some game sites' reviews for when Red and Blue rescue team came out, you can tell the reviewer is having a first-time experience with a rogue like. There's plenty of scenarios in which they comment on traits such as randomized dungeons or spawning on stairs when those more exposed to the genre wouldn't think twice about them.
 
M

Meeker

It needs a fence.
It was the first rougelike game I've played. And I rather like the PMD games. They hold SO many memories.

Remember, critics can have bad opinions at times, and there are some out there that are the snobby assholes whole hate life and say that everything people like sucks. I've had to cope with liking games that get bad reviews, Medal of Honor: Warfighter to be more specific. It got a 5/10 on GI and a 2/10 on IGN, but it was a great game! Trust me, IGN only likes the big games that'll give them money to advertise is out of the picture, so their reviews are pretty much pointless to read. Game Informer on the other hand is more reliable, and funny when they insult games. I may not agree with whoever reviewed MoH: WF, but you just have to shrug aside reviews you disagree with. Get pissed if you want, but it's not like you'll be able to change their opinion.
 
Kutie Pie

Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
Maybe it's because it's a bit different? Which is odd, as a lot of Pokémon fans have always liked the idea of knowing what the Pokémon say, and to also know what they do. So personally, I think the Mystery Dungeon series has always been a wonderful idea. I like the idea of a questionnaire determining what Pokémon you'll be (usually different with each play-through), so there's no exact popular Pokémon people choose to be. The story is also really good (Explorers, anyway), and dark to boot. Seriously, outside of B/W, and possibly Platinum, when has the Pokémon series been this dark? I love that.

So I don't know exactly why these games have mixed reviews, but who cares? They still sell well, and are fondly remembered by those who do like the games. It's the same with all of the other games. Whether these reviewers/critics get paid or not, it's all based on biased opinion. So if you like the games, that's fine. If someone doesn't like the games, that's fine, too (as long as they give reasons why they don't like the games). Opinions will be opinions.
 
W

WillieNelson

Well-Known Member
Meeker said:
It was the first rougelike game I've played. And I rather like the PMD games. They hold SO many memories.

Remember, critics can have bad opinions at times, and there are some out there that are the snobby assholes whole hate life and say that everything people like sucks. I've had to cope with liking games that get bad reviews, Medal of Honor: Warfighter to be more specific. It got a 5/10 on GI and a 2/10 on IGN, but it was a great game! Trust me, IGN only likes the big games that'll give them money to advertise is out of the picture, so their reviews are pretty much pointless to read. Game Informer on the other hand is more reliable, and funny when they insult games. I may not agree with whoever reviewed MoH: WF, but you just have to shrug aside reviews you disagree with. Get pissed if you want, but it's not like you'll be able to change their opinion.
Click to expand...

IGN is absolutely terrible. Every year the Call of Duty games get perfect reviews. They also leave out the negatives (like the story) but as soon as those negatives improve slightly, they say it's the best thing ever (take the Black Ops 2 review, for example. They praised the variable story based on your successes and failures). But they never even mentioned one of the biggest positives about the PMD games: The story. Those stories were the only ones ever to make me cry. Their bias comes from fat paychecks courtesy of Treyarch/Infinity Ward.

Anyway, back on topic, the PMD games get bad reviews in my experience because of unfamiliarity of the genera and the graphics. The latter mainly falling on Time/Darkness/Sky.
 
dirkac

dirkac

I smash your Boxes.
Meeker said:
It was the first rougelike game I've played. And I rather like the PMD games. They hold SO many memories.
Click to expand...

me too, I love the games.

I understand that the unfamiliarity of the game type is causing problems, but at least go out and beat Murky Cave/Marime Resort if you even want to rate anything. First Impressions are worth absolutely nothing.
 
J

jireh the provider

Video Game Designer
Kutie Pie said:
Maybe it's because it's a bit different? Which is odd, as a lot of Pokémon fans have always liked the idea of knowing what the Pokémon say, and to also know what they do. So personally, I think the Mystery Dungeon series has always been a wonderful idea. I like the idea of a questionnaire determining what Pokémon you'll be (usually different with each play-through), so there's no exact popular Pokémon people choose to be. The story is also really good (Explorers, anyway), and dark to boot. Seriously, outside of B/W, and possibly Platinum, when has the Pokémon series been this dark? I love that.

So I don't know exactly why these games have mixed reviews, but who cares? They still sell well, and are fondly remembered by those who do like the games. It's the same with all of the other games. Whether these reviewers/critics get paid or not, it's all based on biased opinion. So if you like the games, that's fine. If someone doesn't like the games, that's fine, too (as long as they give reasons why they don't like the games). Opinions will be opinions.
Click to expand...

I agree to this. For me, possibly to others, the PMD series is Pokemon's own Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask. I mean, I've read a creepy pasta where PMD Explorers coincides with Majora's Mask. And yes I'll say that Explorers is SO MUCH ABOUT DEATH AND LIFE. I mean, its all about your demise ... like who knows how many times the series go on the death rail?
 
H

hawkmbl

Curious
The reason it is my favorite game of all time is due to the fact that the story of red rescue team changed my life. I beat the game and was shocked by the ending, and cried for months. MONTHS. That's why I believe that sites like nintendo life (Who I was banned from as I like PMD and was flamed by the only mod) and NWR and IGN Don't even do a good job reviewing PMD Games.

Seriously. On NWR'S Blue rescue team review, I read that you couldn't use moves, which brought the score down to a 5. WHAT THE HECK?
 
M

Mr.Pokeman

Well-Known Member
The new one for 3DS got a 38/40 from Famitsu, which is really good.
 
dirkac

dirkac

I smash your Boxes.
hawkmbl said:
The reason it is my favorite game of all time is due to the fact that the story of red rescue team changed my life. I beat the game and was shocked by the ending, and cried for months. MONTHS. That's why I believe that sites like nintendo life (Who I was banned from as I like PMD and was flamed by the only mod) and NWR and IGN Don't even do a good job reviewing PMD Games.

Seriously. On NWR'S Blue rescue team review, I read that you couldn't use moves, which brought the score down to a 5. WHAT THE HECK?
Click to expand...

Ugh, seriosly. I hate it too. But they're getting paid to write bad revueiws on games that they aren't paid for. It's all bias.


But, seriously, no moves? Arcues must use Judgement on them.


But, really, you're better off reading reader reviews on Gamefaqs as they tend to not be a bunch of idiots who don't know how to open the menu.


And about the ending thing, I cried too, but mostly because my partner decided to just leave and be a regular Pokémon :( it was heartbreaking.
 
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