iAmDewgong
Not too shabby
Best saying ever? <3
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Why the tier hate?
- Thread starter swalot=yes
- Start date
Best saying ever? <3
Gen. Empoleon
Parasect-sect
It's honestly like you want to act retarded. Of course ****ing all pokemon have weaknesses! That's how the game is made. Their stats in conjunction with their typing is what is important. Kyogre is the best pokemon in the game, that is a fact. He can O-2HKO Every single pokemon in the game, including himself. That shows he is the strongest. In fact many Uber pokemon run Thunder on their move sets to just deal with Kyogre, but does that mean that he still isn't the best? No! It shows how good he is. Your Absol is 100x worse than my Infernape in every single way imaginable, besides of course getting a Dark-type STAB. Why must you insist that we are the retarded ones for liking to win? You are playing competitive, if you want to "play with the pokemon you like" then don't talk about it on a competitive (or I thought this was) pokemon site. Go host a few matches with your buddies, but even then, they know which pokemon are better than others and will use that to their advantage.
Zazie
So 1991
I never said using UU pokemon in a OU environment was a good idea, I like the tiers.
Well quite a few fighting games seem to be able to do this. Obviously Pokemon isn't a fighting game but it should be easy to balance. All they have to do is try changing pokemon's base stats, abilities and movelists between games if they are particularly underpowered or overpowered, it's not that hard.
In fairness, I never pointed you out specifically.
I don't think I even needed to answer that.
Not really, no.
First of all, it's not even in Nintendo's interest to do this kind of thing. The current system is pulling in money, and it's a lot of extra work. Not to mention having Butterfree playable on a similar level to Giratina would be kind of awkward. Secondly, even this kind of shuffle isn't very likely to fix things. Even if the underpowered Pokemon got a boost, there will inevitably be a bottom out. It's anybody's guess as to the exact amount of alteration needed for each Pokemon to even think of approaching a truly balanced game. If you can do this, I'll be sure to acknowledge you as one of the greatest minds of any generation.
Not to mention some basic aspects of certain Pokemon are just unworkable. It's pretty difficult to overcome horrible typing getting half of your HP shaved off by Stealth Rocks when you come in.
Zazie
So 1991
Obviously butterfree shouldn't be as good as Giratina, but the gap between OU and UU could be smaller. Rebalancing is done in fighting games to keep competetive play balanced I don't see why they can't do the same with pokemon. (other than choosing not too of course.)
As for Stealth Rock the is obviously broken. Only moves that deal direct damage should be able to do super effective damage. The secondary damage from fire spin doesn't do super effective damage and niether does hail. Why should Stealth Rock be any different.
Gen. Empoleon
Parasect-sect
First off we're not allowed to change the game in any way, that would mean we're no longer playing pokemon. So we cannot change how Stealth Rock is implemented, or how the damage is dealt. Stealth Rock is not "obviously" broken because you cannot define how a move is broken. "it deals constant damage to pokemon" well so does Dragon Rush, does that mean Dragon Rush is broken? No. Stealth Rock isn't broken, it is simply one of, if not the best moves in pokemon at this time.
Phototoxin
Member
Question ; where to i find a list of these tiers? And are they more biased towards older or newer games and finally is there any consensus online as to what pkmn are in them?
These forums, and Smogon are your friends
Or Google search :/
On topic: Most people (like 85%) like to use the "uber" tier, and "ubers" are difficult to defeat if you aren't prepared.
TogeticTheRuler
Well-Known Member
My god, topics like these provoke idiots who hate tiers because 'it sets rules and standards'
Tiers are made for a reason.
Mainly this one important reason:
So people don't spam uber legendaries.
Lastly, you can use UU or BL pokemon in OU. Or you can use OU in uber battles.
You can even use NU if you feel like it but you'll probably lose.
However, you're not allowed to use ubers in OU or OU in UU battles. It's like a chain.
Just rules to follow.
Mainly this one important reason:
So people don't spam uber legendaries.
Lastly, you can use UU or BL pokemon in OU. Or you can use OU in uber battles.
You can even use NU if you feel like it but you'll probably lose.
However, you're not allowed to use ubers in OU or OU in UU battles. It's like a chain.
Just rules to follow.
christiandeath77
You gotta crush em'.
When people say stupid things like this is exactly why serebii users get made fun of and called serenoobs.Clearly, you've never faced YacheChomp.Ubers doesn't mean legendaries.Personally, I like the tiering but the banning of a few more pokemon may help some UU and NU make it to OU.like Blissey or Scizor.Possibly Heatran.
That's a personal bias though LOL.
Let's set something straight here. The Uber Tier is a banlist. It is where Pokemon found to overwhelm the OU Metagame are placed. Yes, OU is determined by usage, but usage assumes that the people playing the ladder are not idiots and want to win; therefore, the strongest Pokemon are used the most and become OU> While it is true certain UUs can become OU (Tentacruel, Aerodactyl) and OUs and become UUs (Milotic, Yanmega), this is not necessarily the case for everything. Something like Farfetch'd, Volbeat or (it pains me to say it) Relicanth will not ever be OU simply because they are outclassed or can't compete at the same level as OUs. So please, don't argue "well, if everyone used crap pokemon x it would be OU," because as long as battling remains competitive, such an anomaly should never occur.
This is why.
For example, Infernape.
He's a Fire/Fightning, therefore he has a number of weaknesses: Ground, Flying, Psychic, and Water. Now how can this Pokemon that has 4 weaknesses be OU?
1. It is used a lot.....but that isn't the only reason.
2. It also wrecks havoc on the field to anyone who is unprepared.
Infernape has a wide moveset. That Pokemon can cover basically any weakness he has. He has 108 Speed and 104 in BOTH Special Attack and Attack so he can go eitehr Phycisal or Special Damage and hit hard either way. This makes it a bit hard for your opponent to see if they want to use a special defense wall or a physical wall.
Weak to Water? Infernape can use Thunderpunch or Grass Knot.
Weak to Flying? Thunderpunch, Rock Slide, Stone Edge.....
Weak to Psychic? Shadow Claw
Weak to Ground? Grass Knot
And even if you don't have that, it's Fightning and Fire-type gets a STAB bonus to their strength, increasing it by 50%. So Close Combat used by an Infernape has a base power of 180, Flamethrower is 142, Flame Blitz is 180, etc etc.
His typing is diverse. There is little he can hit for neutral damage and with the correct helm item and proper EVs, it going to hit hard and probably either 1-hit KO or 2HKO. And any weakness he has, he can cover most likely. Nothing is safe from Infernape if it's too slow.
That Pokemon can sweep teams......and you can see how.
That is why it's OU and some of the others isn't. Charizard will never be as flexible as Infernape is in the moveset, base stat, and type coverage department. Also, if Infernape was allowed in UU or NU.......I don't need to describe the results.
You use favorites? So does that mean you lose often? You cannot win battles with your favorite little pixels :/
VM me, I will show you what I mean...
On topic: Tiers set rules and regulations^_^
Zazie
So 1991
That depends on what tier your favorties are in. If all your favorties are OU then you might not lose often. Most my my favorites are UU or NU so if I wanted to battle competetivley I would go up against someone else who uses UU or NU so I stand somewhat of a chance. Unless I am mistaken since there are people who come up with strategies for these pokemon there are some people who competetivley battle with them.
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Umbreon-dana
Phat Philanthropist
/facepalm.
You people really don't get the point do you?
OU acts as a base tier, where everything is based on. If a Pokemon is too strong, fast, or the movepool is to wide, it is tested and sent to Uber, or kept in OU. If it doesn't really do anything well in OU, or it can't handle a new metagame worth half a crap, it's sent to UU, then tested, then sent to BL or NU, or of course, kept in UU. Over time, Uber and UU evolved into their own metagame.
Of course all Pokemon have weaknesses and can be beaten. That's obvious. It's really how hard or easy it is to beat said Pokemon that counts. Celebi has a whopping seven weaknesses, and one double weakness, and it's still OU!
When was this again? I doubt its existence. Competitive battling has existed since people discovered you can battle with friends via link. Everything, and I mean everything has a competitive side to it. It's animalistic nature, animals are competitive, end of discussion.
I truly hate repeating myself, but:
YacheChomp is uncounterable. It 2HKOes everything in the game after a SD, and 2-3HKOes everything in the game without it, it has its own unique speed tier, and is nearly always backed by Sandstorm and SR, so Sash Pokemon can't counter it. It KOes anything that poses an attacking threat.
Garchomp required HP Ice, Ice Beam, Ice Punch, Ice Fang, Blizzard, and Avalanche on any Pokemon that wanted a chance to be used. It limited the creativity of teams, because for a while, any team must have the thought in mind "Does Chomp give trouble for this Pokemon?".
There are only 2 Pokemon that can counter it, Cresselia and Lugia. Cresselia requires IceBeam, Moonlight, and Reflect, leaving room only for Psychic, a STAB move.
Now every team is going to have Cress (do to the fact that Lugia is banned), leaving one less space for another Pokemon. Kind of sounds like overcentralizing to me.
And don't give us any crap about Garchomp being weak in Ubers, a lot of Pokemon are to weak for Ubers, but to strong/annoying as hell for OU. Some examples of this are Deoxys-N (outclassed by Deoxys-A), Wobb., Chomp, and Latios (outclassed by Latias).
No, Mence will never be the new Chomp, it has 100 base Speed, a weakness to SR, lack of Sand Viel+TWave immunity, and only decent HP.
Before you say anything, Wifi is never reliable for testing it, any of the Pokemon can be hacked, they have varying IVs, and possibly bad natures.
I wasn't present for the early Manaphy metagame, and didn't get involved in testing, but from what I've heard, Tail Glow RindoMana swept more than half the metagame with ease, turning the metagame upside down and inside out.
Now onto the subject of favorites, it's really more about your skill of the Pokemon in question coupled with the overall suckiness/greatness factor. Again, I shalt use the Regigigas example. I like Regigigas, I found a way to use it in OU, I kicked *** and took names, and went up 150 points on the ladder.
Now UU/NU/BL/NFE favorites can be viable in OU, but there better off in the tier their placed in, or perhaps Ubers.
If you think not, I have one word for you: Porygon2.
To both sides of this argument:
Side 1 (Down with Winning, Up with Favorites), tiers are there for a reason. If you're *****ing so much about how you cannot use your favorites, then try using them in a metagame where Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Palkia, and Arceus are beating the hell out of everything. Without tiers, it would be harder to use your favorites, so kindly shut up.
Side 2 (Up with Winning, Down with Favorites), favorites can be viable in a higher metagame, if you know how to use them properly in that metagame. Not everything is set in stone based on what tier there in. An UU Pokemon can be used well in Ubers or OU, an OU Pokemon can be viable in Ubers, and a NU Pokemon can be used in Ubers, UU, or OU. Favorites can be viable, so kindly shut up.
Now just to wait for the idiotic flamming.
Threads like this show why Serebii is looked upon as a joke competitively. Deleting tiers is actually bad since the people who use their favorites now have to face Pokemon like Groudon, which nothing below BL reasonably expects to stand a chance against.
To think that tiers should step down from their position as "mighty overlords of the minds of battlers" so that a certain favorite Pokemon doesn't get "left out" is an incredibly selfish thought. Not to mention that most people who think that "tires don exits" aren't really competitive players. You would think that those who think "tiers are for queers" would play Ubers, but they don't. Why not? Because they are posing as a competitive battler attempting to remold real competitive battling in their casual image. Basically, here is a sliding scale of where real competitive players come from and their possible influence on tiers:
Smogon
*
*
*
*
*
*
Marriland
*
*
*
Gamefaqs
Psypoke
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
If you're looking for Serebii on this list, don't bother. It's past the bottom of the monitor.
To think that tiers should step down from their position as "mighty overlords of the minds of battlers" so that a certain favorite Pokemon doesn't get "left out" is an incredibly selfish thought. Not to mention that most people who think that "tires don exits" aren't really competitive players. You would think that those who think "tiers are for queers" would play Ubers, but they don't. Why not? Because they are posing as a competitive battler attempting to remold real competitive battling in their casual image. Basically, here is a sliding scale of where real competitive players come from and their possible influence on tiers:
Smogon
*
*
*
*
*
*
Marriland
*
*
*
Gamefaqs
Psypoke
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
If you're looking for Serebii on this list, don't bother. It's past the bottom of the monitor.
This is why no-one pays attention to the intelligent people that have to weed through the idiocy that the mods do their very best to prevent (but eventually, it takes a toll on them because the mods are outnumbered).
In case you didn't catch why Garchomp is banned-
In case you didn't catch why Garchomp is banned-
randomspot555
Well-Known Member
^^^I disagree with that. SPPF has never tried to be some monster in the competitive battling community, and I doubt Psypokes has either. GameFAQs has a similar ratio of retards:intelligent users, though I think intelligence fairs slightly to SPPF, simply cause none of the users here have posted a thread about a crime they'll commit, then go and commit said crime.
Simply put, the people who advocate for relaxed rules simply aren't really playing in a competitive game. Because part of the competitive battling aspect is creating a game that's fair, balanced, and so on. So while certain mons can't function in the game populated by Scizor, Heatran, and Salamence, give them their own seperate tier where they can diversify their sets and battle against other mons where they have a fighting chance.
If one ever wants to see how "fun" no rules-tiers really is, go on PBR Wi-Fi. Mewtwo, Kyogre, and [filler] will win, almost 100% of the time.
Now, as for the Wi-Fi environment vs Shoddy, this happens on both sides of the argument. They are simply drastically different environments in terms of battling, and what works on one won't work on the other. Simply look at how common Hidden Power is on Shoddy, and contrast that with Wi-Fi, where soft-resetting or breeding for a Hidden Power means this:
Now while Wi-Fi environment can't track usage as automatically as Shoddy can, I think a small group of individuals who trust each other, can run down statistics and such. It's not easy, but not impossible. It just can't be done via poplusim.
Simply put, the people who advocate for relaxed rules simply aren't really playing in a competitive game. Because part of the competitive battling aspect is creating a game that's fair, balanced, and so on. So while certain mons can't function in the game populated by Scizor, Heatran, and Salamence, give them their own seperate tier where they can diversify their sets and battle against other mons where they have a fighting chance.
If one ever wants to see how "fun" no rules-tiers really is, go on PBR Wi-Fi. Mewtwo, Kyogre, and [filler] will win, almost 100% of the time.
Now, as for the Wi-Fi environment vs Shoddy, this happens on both sides of the argument. They are simply drastically different environments in terms of battling, and what works on one won't work on the other. Simply look at how common Hidden Power is on Shoddy, and contrast that with Wi-Fi, where soft-resetting or breeding for a Hidden Power means this:
- Getting a Hidden Power type that's useful
- Getting a HP that's powerful
- Both of the above mean getting a certain set of IVs
- Then also getting a beneficial nature
- And if you're trying to get HP on a Mon that has 1 great ability and one useless ability, then good luck with that!
Now while Wi-Fi environment can't track usage as automatically as Shoddy can, I think a small group of individuals who trust each other, can run down statistics and such. It's not easy, but not impossible. It just can't be done via poplusim.