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Why was Iris accused of not being a true friend to Ash?

BlueDragonfangirl

Well-Known Member
I have always thought they had an interesting dynamic to them. Their friendship was sort of like the one with Misty with the occasional bickering but still had sense of a true connection. Cilian was the one in the group whose friendship seemed the weakest in my own opinion. Iris may have called Ash “a little kid” several times but that doesn’t mean that she wasn’t his friend. Misty had said similar things to Ash during the OS and she even nagged him constantly after the first episode about her bike until Togepi hatched and preoccupied her mind with needing to constantly care for the baby Pokémon. My main issue was that Iris didn’t really seem to do much with training Axew to become stronger and get closer to evolving into a Haxorus.
I didn't like Misty/ Ash friendship either, paticular during the first series. Any one that picks on Ash none stop is not a good friend. That's why my favorite Ash friendship is Ash x Serena and Ash x Dawn. The thing that bugged me though most about Iris and others as well I'd her calling him a kid when she was more of a rookie than what she considered Ash.
 

Sham

These leaks have me distressed
I didn't like Misty/ Ash friendship either, paticular during the first series. Any one that picks on Ash none stop is not a good friend. That's why my favorite Ash friendship is Ash x Serena and Ash x Dawn. The thing that bugged me though most about Iris and others as well I'd her calling him a kid when she was more of a rookie than what she considered Ash.
She clearly wasn’t a rookie. She had a winning streak, was considered for a gym position prior to the series, went to Drayden’s school to understand more about Pokémon and defeated Ash’s Pikachu very early in the series. She was portrayed stronger than most companions upon their debut and that eventually lead her to Champion.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Never had any issue with her and I think she and Ash had a nice friendship. It wasn't in the same tier as the one he had with Dawn and Goh but was still pleasant and miles better than his friendship with misty.

Her catchphrase never really bothered me. Most of the time, she did have a point and the few times it didn't, it seemed more like part of her dynamic.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
The thing that bugged me though most about Iris and others as well I'd her calling him a kid when she was more of a rookie than what she considered Ash.
I don't understand how anyone could make this assessment considering that Iris was much younger than Satoshi during the flashbacks that showed her developing a win streak with her Mogurew and meeting Shaga, and when she first attended school. She clearly started her training before Satoshi did, so how exactly was she a rookie compared to him?
 

Observer

Mostly watching
I thought she was a good friend to him, there were times when the 'such a kid' phrase was a bit annoying at first, but it was toned down to simple teasing afterwards.

Besides she supported him throughout his badge quest, special mention goes to his final gym battle where her and Cilian dressed up and was beating on drums to block out Roxy's fans.

It's also the other way around too, like when Officer Jenny told Ash to capture Dragonite and even offered him a Pokeball. He declined it telling her that he had faith in Iris's skills to reach it.

So personally I think she is a good friend who will have his back and vice versa.
 

Sham

These leaks have me distressed
I think like many things there is also an underlying reason why people disliked Iris. I won't get into a particular theory I have because I'm not sure if it's "appropriate" here but I definitely think a reason is because a lot of people preform self inserts with Ash and the fact that she was teasing him pinched a nerve and some took it personally.
 

mysticalglacia

Alola Shill
People like to project on the Pokégirls and when one of them isn’t being nice to Ash, people take it as a personal slight on their behalf. Look at Koharu. I’ll be the first to say her relationship with Ash is so paper thin that it might as well not exist, but there are some individuals out there who act like she completely hates him. At most, she considers him annoying sometimes. It’s the same thing with Iris, despite there being many more moments and episodes that prove their genuine friendship. The Iris and Ash dynamic is typical shonen fare; yet I rarely see people getting up in arms over Nami and Luffy, for example.

Dawn and May also don’t get nearly as much slack for bickering with Ash, even though it didn’t happen as much. Just double standards and a lot of self-projection.
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
People like to project on the Pokégirls and when one of them isn’t being nice to Ash, people take it as a personal slight on their behalf. Look at Koharu. I’ll be the first to say her relationship with Ash is so paper thin that it might as well not exist, but there are some individuals out there who act like she completely hates him. At most, she considers him annoying sometimes. It’s the same thing with Iris, despite there being many more moments and episodes that prove their genuine friendship. The Iris and Ash dynamic is typical shonen fare; yet I rarely see people getting up in arms over Nami and Luffy, for example.

Dawn and May also don’t get nearly as much slack for bickering with Ash, even though it didn’t happen as much. Just double standards and a lot of self-projection.
I agree with the sentiment, but I disagree with the girls getting the projection. I think it’s Ash who gets the projection. Any slight against Ash is now a personal attack.
 

AuraChannelerChris

"Tis an honor to be recognized."
I don't think she was accused of that.

Though she behaved like Misty when criticizing Ash of things he did, which only happened because he was made dumber in BW so her shtick could work.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Golden Queen
I don't think she was accused of that.

Though she behaved like Misty when criticizing Ash of things he did, which only happened because he was made dumber in BW so her shtick could work.
Not really, she didn't have a short temper like Misty did and she didn't hit Ash either sadly
 

AuraChannelerChris

"Tis an honor to be recognized."
Not really, she didn't have a short temper like Misty did and she didn't hit Ash either sadly
I meant criticize, not injure comically or have a short temper.
 

Sham

These leaks have me distressed
Also don’t believe Ash was made “dumb” just so Iris could look better. The anime clearly thought that OS-DP was a good enough time frame to cause a soft reboot to the series (and the games were reboots themselves) and that most fans had outgrown it by then since anybody who was watching OS as a child at that point was an adult so they decided to make Ash appeal to a new audience.
 

AuraChannelerChris

"Tis an honor to be recognized."
Also don’t believe Ash was made “dumb” just so Iris could look better. The anime clearly thought that OS-DP was a good enough time frame to cause a soft reboot to the series (and the games were reboots themselves) and that most fans had outgrown it by then since anybody who was watching OS as a child at that point was an adult so they decided to make Ash appeal to a new audience.
But then XY Ash was smarter and no one in his group gave him flak. He was made more heroic then so everyone in his XY group thought very highly of him, whereas BW Ash is really dumber so Iris's jokes had more sense and he'd be a clown next to the other clown (Cilan)...and this is coming from DP Ash when he was really good.

And if the "outgrowing" part is true, then why is Ash back to being a dumb kid in SM, which is right after his XY phase when he was at the top of his game (allegedly) when that was right next to BW when he was dumb? From OS to DP, he was growing steadily, but then every season after those, his brain is fluctuating in intelligence...and kids surely don't outgrow a saga when they go 6 to 9 and then 12.
 

Sham

These leaks have me distressed
But then XY Ash was smarter and no one in his group gave him flak. He was made more heroic then so everyone in his XY group thought very highly of him, whereas BW Ash is really dumber so Iris's jokes had more sense and he'd be a clown next to the other clown (Cilan)...and this is coming from DP Ash when he was really good.

And if the "outgrowing" part is true, then why is Ash back to being a dumb kid in SM, which is right after his XY phase when he was at the top of his game (allegedly) when that was right next to BW when he was dumb? From OS to DP, he was growing steadily, but then every season after those, his brain is fluctuating in intelligence...and kids surely don't outgrow a saga when they go 6 to 9 and then 12.
But SM Ash wasn’t dumb. You probably shouldn’t conflate childishness with being dumb. As for the explanation on why BW Ash is differently from XY it’s essentially the reason why BW Ash is different from DP Ash. BW Ash essentially opened up a Pandora’s box where they no longer have to characterize him based on the previous region and instead form his personality traits based on the individual series. I really don’t think they decided to change his whole character just for Iris. Not to mention most of her jokes was about his immaturity and stupidity which again is different. Dawn teased Ash plenty for being an airhead when it comes to love and frequently insulted him when they fought.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
But SM Ash wasn’t dumb. You probably shouldn’t conflate childishness with being dumb. As for the explanation on why BW Ash is differently from XY it’s essentially the reason why BW Ash is different from DP Ash. BW Ash essentially opened up a Pandora’s box where they no longer have to characterize him based on the previous region and instead form his personality traits based on the individual series. I really don’t think they decided to change his whole character just for Iris. Not to mention most of her jokes was about his immaturity and stupidity which again is different. Dawn teased Ash plenty for being an airhead when it comes to love and frequently insulted him when they fought.
I insist with my headcanon that BW was supposed to be a reboot but the writers realized that Ash was so popular and decided to continue with him, but it was too late to change early BW. Later series reconnected Ash's experience but they continue swapping Ash's personality almost 180° degrees.
 

Sham

These leaks have me distressed
I insist with my headcanon that BW was supposed to be a reboot but the writers realized that Ash was so popular and decided to continue with him, but it was too late to change early BW. Later series reconnected Ash's experience but they continue swapping Ash's personality almost 180° degrees.
Oh totally it’s why you have confused people here saying that XY is a natural progression of DP Ash (skipping BW) when in reality as you said his personality and experience get retcon every series post BW.
 

AuraChannelerChris

"Tis an honor to be recognized."
So in short:

OS to DP Ash: Gettin' smarter.
BW Ash: Suddenly dumber that he can't be brainwashed.
XY Ash: Suddenly heroic.
SM: Suddenly childish that Bonnie missed out on.
Journeys: Wild Card? / Bro? / Mentor?
 
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