Will ALL old characters be retconned out of existence from now on?

[Caseydia]

Dawn, I can understand making an appearance because all of the other girls got a second one. But for all the other old characters, if everyone loves them so much, why not purchase the DVD box sets or something to take your mind off of them. That's what I did and that's why I don't want to see anymore of them. Try it. It works.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

But that's because May and Misty effected the plot of their respective saga's more than any other character outside of Ash. DP was the first time we got a Rival/Character that was of great importance, vastly effected the plot of the entire saga, and was completely independent of Ash & Co. So I think his chances of returning are just as good if not better than the previous female co-stars.

Yes Paul was important but you cant in no way compare his level of importance to female protagonists importance they had over course of this show.
Once again,Paul has chance to appear just like Gary did,but to say he has more of a chance than Dawn,Misty or May for example is frankly ridiculous.

They were purely brought in again by the desire of the writers, not because of their importance or popularity. If they didn't appear in DP it wouldn't have made much of a difference because they hardly effected the saga's they were introduced in.

Thats aside the point,which was how character being old wont affect his chances of being brought back.

Paul's importance and popularity alone earn him a cameo.

If were taking into account characters popularity and importance than every older character who fullfills this criteria has chance of coming back.

Maybe in the past before Paul was introduced, but he is no way more popular than Paul now. You can't count a fan base of people who haven't been keeping up with the series since AG or prior because their not even aware of Paul and know nothing about him to even make a comparison between him and Brock.

Fair enough but your forgetting how many of those fans who stopped watching show are being keeping up with updates being aware of new characters.

His personality, ambitions, and style compared to Gary's are all a matter of opinion. But the fact of the matter is he was a better handled and better developed character than Gary was, and those are the only things that can factually and comparatively determine whether a character is better than another.

I think we both are not completely understanding what each side is trying to say.
How much development someone is receiving doesnt determine how good character is,because in the end of the day quality matters more than quantity.
So while Paul was handled better than Gary was,this doesnt mean he was more entertaining(better) than his ancestor.

Dawn, I can understand making an appearance because all of the other girls got a second one. But for all the other old characters, if everyone loves them so much, why not purchase the DVD box sets or something to take your mind off of them. That's what I did and that's why I don't want to see anymore of them. Try it. It works.

Maybe for you,but to many people who watched several times previous regions thats not the same as getting some new update and material about older characters.
People want to see them in new episodes,and get some new material.

 

[Paul Ketchum]

Yes Paul was important but you cant in no way compare his level of importance to female protagonists importance they had over course of this show.
Once again,Paul has chance to appear just like Gary did,but to say he has more of a chance than Dawn,Misty or May for example is frankly ridiculous.

How is that ridiculous? If you look at the history of the show, the new female protagonist has always been the most important new character introduced. But in DP, Paul was introduced right along with Dawn as a new character and played a large role, not as big as Dawn's, but large nonetheless, which made him very important to the overall story of DP. He was also included in all of the early and later promotions for DP along with Ash, Dawn, and Brock, signifying his importance. So I think he's just as important as Dawn and has a much bigger chance than either Misty or May reappearing because he's more relevant.

Thats aside the point,which was how character being old wont affect his chances of being brought back.

It's not aside the point, with the exception of Gary, those characters you mentioned were not very important, so no matter how old they get their cameo appearances don't matter much. Misty and May effected the story when they were brought back, their relevance and importance is what garnered them a cameo. But since Misty is 3 saga's behind and May is 2 saga's behind BW, their importance is not as relevant to the show as it was when they came back.

If were taking into account characters popularity and importance than every older character who fullfills this criteria has chance of coming back.

Yes, but there chance's are a lot slimmer than Paul's because of their relevance.

Fair enough but your forgetting how many of those fans who stopped watching show are being keeping up with updates being aware of new characters.

I didn't forget that, they're apart of the group that has knowledge about Paul's character. You were counting people who only had knowledge of Brock and not Paul because they had stopped watching the show sometime before DP.

I think we both are not completely understanding what each side is trying to say.
How much development someone is receiving doesnt determine how good character is,because in the end of the day quality matters more than quantity.
So while Paul was handled better than Gary was,this doesnt mean he was more entertaining(better) than his ancestor.

I was taking into account the quality of their development and growth this entire time. If you look at my previous statements I said that Paul had very good development and growth and that Gary didn't. Gary didn't appear many times when he was Ash's rival, but the times he did appear cannot equate to the times Paul did. Every time Paul made an appearance, it effected the show, Gary most of the time didn't. So this is not a case of quality vs quantity because Paul has him beat in both.

Now whether or not a character is entertaining is completely the viewers opinion, I think you got confused and thought that's how I was comparing and evaluating them when it wasn't.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

But in DP, Paul was introduced right along with Dawn as a new character and played a large role, not as big as Dawn's, but large nonetheless, which made him very important to the overall story of DP. He was also included in all of the early and later promotions for DP along with Ash, Dawn, and Brock, signifying his importance.

Thats the thing,he was relevant to DP,but once show steps in BW he wont be anymore relevant to Isshu region with chances of his appearance hanging in the air.
He could come,but its not for sure.

So I think he's just as important as Dawn and has a much bigger chance than either Misty or May reappearing because he's more relevant.

"Important as Dawn?"Ok are you sure were watching same show?
Granted he was more important to Sinnoh than May or Misty given they werent anymore in show,but Dawn was definitely more important in Sinnoh than Paul was.

It's not aside the point, with the exception of Gary, those characters you mentioned were not very important, so no matter how old they get their cameo appearances don't matter much.

It doesnt matter how important someone was,the sole fact they were brought back shows how it doesnt matter how much old somene is with writers in end having closing word.

Yes, but there chance's are a lot slimmer than Paul's because of their relevance.

It depends on writers really.If they want they could make them relevant to story again.

Anme wise there is left more than enough untapped potential to do with them,and considering how their stories were left unfinished(like Mistys for example) gives them material to work with aswell excuses behind someones return.

I was taking into account the quality of their development and growth this entire time. If you look at my previous statements I said that Paul had very good development and growth and that Gary didn't. Gary didn't appear many times when he was Ash's rival, but the times he did appear cannot equate to the times Paul did.

And i agreed with fact of Pauls story being handled better gaining more focus and relevance.When i was talkin about quality,i was talking about entertainment of characters and their stories being based on matter of preference.

Every time Paul made an appearance, it effected the show, Gary most of the time didn't. So this is not a case of quality vs quantity because Paul has him beat in both.

Maybe,but quality is often subjective when it comes to viewers interpretation.

 

[Paul Ketchum]

Thats the thing,he was relevant to DP,but once show steps in BW he wont be anymore relevant to Isshu region with chances of his appearance hanging in the air.
He could come,but its not for sure.

Well Misty wasn't relevant to AG and May wasn't relevant to DP, but the main reason they got cameo's was because they weren't that far removed from those saga's that the writers couldn't simply make them relevant again. A Paul cameo in BW wouldn't be that big of a problem because they just left Sinnoh so it wouldn't be hard for them to make up a reason for his return, but a Misty or May cameo would be harder to execute because of their relevance pertaining to current day Ash.

"Important as Dawn?"Ok are you sure were watching same show?
Granted he was more important to Sinnoh than May or Misty given they werent anymore in show,but Dawn was definitely more important in Sinnoh than Paul was.

Paul didn't appear nearly as much as Dawn, but without him DP would have been like AG all over again. Paul effected the story of DP just as much as Dawn did, so I think they're on equal footing in that respect.

It doesnt matter how important someone was,the sole fact they were brought back shows how it doesnt matter how much old somene is with writers in end having closing word.

It depends on writers really.If they want they could make them relevant to story again.

Anme wise there is left more than enough untapped potential to do with them,and considering how their stories were left unfinished(like Mistys for example) gives them material to work with aswell excuses behind someones return.

Of course they always have the closing word, but it's the reasoning behind their decision to bring back a character that needs to make sense. If they just bring an important character from a past saga back for no reason and they have no relevance with the current characters or plot, it doesn't make much sense to bring them back. And the further an old character is removed from the current characters and plot, the smaller the chances of them making a return are. I'm not saying that Misty or May could never return, but their chances are significantly smaller than Paul's and Dawn's because Paul and Dawn are more relevant.

And i agreed with fact of Pauls story being handled better gaining more focus and relevance.When i was talkin about quality,i was talking about entertainment of characters and their stories being based on matter of preference.

Maybe,but quality is often subjective when it comes to viewers interpretation.

Well just because something is entertaining doesn't make it of good quality, I'm quite sure you can find plenty of videos on Youtube that prove that point. But the bottom line is, Paul was a better rival and character overall than Gary, whether Gary or Paul was more entertaining is completely a matter of opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that Paul was handled better in every aspect. Entertainment value doesn't always dictate the quality of something, and in this case, it doesn't.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Well Misty wasn't relevant to AG and May wasn't relevant to DP, but the main reason they got cameo's was because they weren't that far removed from those saga's that the writers couldn't simply make them relevant again.

Not really.Gary was far removed by not being brought back in whole Hoenn and Battle Frontier with writers making him relevant again.
Jessibelle was completely irrelevant with writers making her relevant to James story again,Butch and Cassidy had no reason to return with writers making one becoming relevant to current DP story.

How much character is absent isnt dictating his chances of being brought back.

A Paul cameo in BW wouldn't be that big of a problem because they just left Sinnoh so it wouldn't be hard for them to make up a reason for his return, but a Misty or May cameo would be harder to execute because of their relevance pertaining to current day Ash.

Again bringing up excuse behind Misty,May return wouldnt be any harder than it would be for Dawn or Pauls.Thats the smallest problem in here.

The only reason why Dawn for example has bigger chance to return is because she was recent main character still not making usual mid region cameo like girls before her did.

Paul didn't appear nearly as much as Dawn, but without him DP would have been like AG all over again. Paul effected the story of DP just as much as Dawn did, so I think they're on equal footing in that respect.

Generally speaking Dawn was overall more important than Paul was.She received much more screentime,her contests influenced Ash storyline starting to use techniques from coordinators in his battles,her contest arc was given much more attention and focus affecting greatly plot of Sinnoh,so no they cant be equal in any way or form no matter at what angle you look at it.

Of course they always have the closing word, but it's the reasoning behind their decision to bring back a character that needs to make sense. If they just bring an important character from a past saga back for no reason and they have no relevance with the current characters or plot, it doesn't make much sense to bring them back.

And your forgetting how writers if want can provide reasoning behind someones return.There are plenty of valid justified reasons these characters could make appearance or even return to main cast.

Reason why some of them didnt returned is more because of too many older characters being present already with there not being room to show all of them in every region than anything else.

Well just because something is entertaining doesn't make it of good quality,

Im sorry but your wrong,if character fills criteria of being enjoyable to audience liking his aspects and storyline he already made success making him good quality character.

Your mixing quality of writing being present in someones story with quality of character itself.

But the bottom line is, Paul was a better rival and character overall than Gary, whether Gary or Paul was more entertaining is completely a matter of opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that Paul was handled better in every aspect. Entertainment value doesn't always dictate the quality of something, and in this case, it doesn't.

Again matter of opinion.Paul had better written storyline but claiming how he was "better" rival and character to Ash is subjective with final judgment being on viewer itself.
For example you might claime how Paul had better battles,better interaction with Ash etc but on other hand something you find being good other side might view differently with Gary in his view being better battler having better chemistry with Ash.

You can argue about this all you want,but whether someone is better or not depends on viewers personal interpretation with lenght of development not determing this.

 

[Mandi.]

Once again,Paul has chance to appear just like Gary did,but to say he has more of a chance than Dawn,Misty or May for example is frankly ridiculous.

Paul does have more of a chance to appear than all three girls actually.

Fair enough but your forgetting how many of those fans who stopped watching show are being keeping up with updates being aware of new characters.

Like I said, I doubt any of the writers, or anybody elses gives a crap about the whiny teenagers who stalk the anime so they can throw their bullshit around.

Thats the thing,he was relevant to DP,but once show steps in BW he wont be anymore relevant to Isshu region with chances of his appearance hanging in the air.
He could come,but its not for sure.

How the hell can you say this, when you make whole page long essays about how Misty has this and that reason to come back and she should because this.
Misty hasn't been relevant to the show since she left. Actually before she left. She was long in need for a departure.

It doesnt matter how important someone was,the sole fact they were brought back shows how it doesnt matter how much old somene is with writers in end having closing word.

well we can see where that's going with Misty, eh?

Not really.Gary was far removed by not being brought back in whole Hoenn and Battle Frontier with writers making him relevant again.
Jessibelle was completely irrelevant with writers making her relevant to James story again,Butch and Cassidy had no reason to return with writers making one becoming relevant to current DP story.

YOU KNOW WHAT! I say that the writers bring back Team Galactic and make them relevant to the show again. It's that easy man!
Funny thing is, them coming back is more likely than Misty come back lol. YAY!!!!!!! I HAVE A CHANCE TO BE HAPPY AGAIN! ;0;

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Paul does have more of a chance to appear than all three girls actually.

Somehow i doubt writers would choose him over Dawn.

How the hell can you say this, when you make whole page long essays about how Misty has this and that reason to come back and she should because this.

Just because some character has reasons to return doesnt mean he will.Point is that when character is written out not being part of show anymore he stops being relevant to anime plot,period.Of course his current status in show can change depending on writers and if they want to do something with him,but thats not what i was pointing out.

Misty hasn't been relevant to the show since she left. Actually before she left. She was long in need for a departure.

Only in your opinion.Judging by amount of complains and criticism her departure was mistake,and going by narrative and story wise it was definitely bad move.

YOU KNOW WHAT! I say that the writers bring back Team Galactic and make them relevant to the show again. It's that easy man!
Funny thing is, them coming back is more likely than Misty come back lol. YAY!!!!!!! I HAVE A CHANCE TO BE HAPPY AGAIN! ;0;

You dont expect that i take this post seriously do you?
Comparing regional team of villains with previous main characters and their level of popularity or importance is nothing short of being ridiculous.

 

[Paul Ketchum]

Not really.Gary was far removed by not being brought back in whole Hoenn and Battle Frontier with writers making him relevant again.
Jessibelle was completely irrelevant with writers making her relevant to James story again,Butch and Cassidy had no reason to return with writers making one becoming relevant to current DP story.

How much character is absent isnt dictating his chances of being brought
back.

We've already been through this, the characters you are mentioning are not that important, they can be brought back at any time.

Again bringing up excuse behind Misty,May return wouldnt be any harder than it would be for Dawn or Pauls.Thats the smallest problem in here.

But Dawn and Paul's would make a lot more sense and be a lot more easier to write because they've only just recently left these characters.

The only reason why Dawn for example has bigger chance to return is because she was recent main character still not making usual mid region cameo like girls before her did.

Paul was a main character too.

Generally speaking Dawn was overall more important than Paul was.She received much more screentime,her contests influenced Ash storyline starting to use techniques from coordinators in his battles,her contest arc was given much more attention and focus affecting greatly plot of Sinnoh,so no they cant be equal in any way or form no matter at what angle you look at it.

Yes, she received more screentime but her influence on Ash pales in comparison to Paul's. Paul drove Ash to want to become a better trainer and learn new battling techniques so that he could defeat him one day. So they equally drove the plot and effected the story whether you want to see it that way or not.

And your forgetting how writers if want can provide reasoning behind someones return.There are plenty of valid justified reasons these characters could make appearance or even return to main cast.

Reason why some of them didnt returned is more because of too many older characters being present already with there not being room to show all of them in every region than anything else.

I never said the writers couldn't come up with a reason for their return or that they would never return, I simply said if they did that the reasoning behind it would have to make sense.

Im sorry but your wrong,if character fills criteria of being enjoyable to audience liking his aspects and storyline he already made success making him good quality character.

Your mixing quality of writing being present in someones story with quality of character itself.

Again matter of opinion.Paul had better written storyline but claiming how he was "better" rival and character to Ash is subjective with final judgment being on viewer itself.
For example you might claime how Paul had better battles,better interaction with Ash etc but on other hand something you find being good other side might view differently with Gary in his view being better battler having better chemistry with Ash.

You can argue about this all you want,but whether someone is better or not depends on viewers personal interpretation with lenght of development not determing this.

Whether an audience likes a character or not doesn't change the quality of the character. There are plenty of great musician's that nobody listens to, does that mean their music isn't good? No. It just means that less people enjoy their music, but it doesn't mean the quality of the music is bad. People love and hate Gary, but in reality he was a poorly handled character. People love and hate Paul, but in reality he was a greatly handled character. Whether someone wants to see it that way or not is completely up to them, but it doesn't change the facts. Simple as that.

 

[PePer]

Only in your opinion.Judging by amount of complains and criticism her departure was mistake,and going by narrative and story wise it was definitely bad move.

Lol what? What would be better then? Having another freaking mono battler in the cast taking away twice much spotlight from main hero of the show and his Pokemon? Don't think so, writers are avoiding having another battler in cast look > May's beginning.

You can say it was a mistake but it clearly wasn't it's just you deluding yourself. Maybe one of head writers regretted what has he done but that doesn't even matter, as it was after fact and didn't changed anything for Misty. Her departure made show more intresting as new girl entered introducing important side quest that even gave a reason for another main female character to exist.

 

[Rex Kamex]

How is that ridiculous? If you look at the history of the show, the new female protagonist has always been the most important new character introduced. But in DP, Paul was introduced right along with Dawn as a new character

Dawn was on a poster with Palkia and Dialga around two months before the D&P poster with Paul on it came around.

 

[Paul Ketchum]

Dawn was on a poster with Palkia and Dialga around two months before the D&P poster with Paul on it came around.

OK, so she was introduced two months before him, they were still both introduced around the same time before DP started airing, so that doesn't change the fact that he was still as important as she was.

 

[deathseer]

I'm hoping they do. The writers are obviously not going to commit to all the characters they have created over the years so its better if they left them behind rather than leaving them in limbo for 400+ episodes.

Either take care of ALL your characters or don't bother at all. Otherwise you end up with people constantly complaining about a character that is long gone (case in point, Misty).

 

[mistycerulean]

OK, so she was introduced two months before him, they were still both introduced around the same time before DP started airing, so that doesn't change the fact that he was still as important as she was.

OK, say that Paul makes a cameo in B&W. What would he do? I mean, the Sinnoh League's over, Ash'll get a new rival in Isshu, so what's Paul gonna do? Cheer? I don't see a reason for him to return to the show. Dawn I could understand; Brock too, because they could have significant reasons for them to return. But Paul?

 

[Gaiash]

OK, so she was introduced two months before him, they were still both introduced around the same time before DP started airing, so that doesn't change the fact that he was still as important as she was.

Ok look. We're not denying the fact Shinji was a major character. He just wasn't as important as you are claiming he is.

 

[TrainerOfLegend]

The old characters will make appearances, but it's just that they won't be there for every episode. Or every hundred episodes.

 

[ForeverFlame]

I hate it when people throw TV Tropes terms around without knowing what they mean.

No, nothing in Pokemon will ever be retconned. The term you're looking for is "Put on a Bus".

 

[Paul Ketchum]

OK, say that Paul makes a cameo in B&W. What would he do? I mean, the Sinnoh League's over, Ash'll get a new rival in Isshu, so what's Paul gonna do? Cheer? I don't see a reason for him to return to the show. Dawn I could understand; Brock too, because they could have significant reasons for them to return. But Paul?

I don't know what the writers would do, but if I were on the writing staff I would create an episode for him to cameo in where he would run into Ash while traversing Isshu and have a rematch with him to see how much he's improved since their last battle. Which would in turn motivate him to become a better trainer after suffering a loss to his new rival, Shooti. That's just my suggestion, but there's a multitude of ways the writers could create a way for him to make a cameo appearance, he was Ash's strongest and most influential rival thus far, that's good enough reason for him to come back.

Ok look. We're not denying the fact Shinji was a major character. He just wasn't as important as you are claiming he is.

Of course he was. Ash defeating Paul was more important than anything else involving Ash in DP. The whole saga was pretty much designed to lead up to their final bout in the Sinnoh League. Dawn was an important character because she was the new female co-star, was a budding coordinator, and had her own journey opposite of Ash to pursue. But Ash's entire Sinnoh journey revolved around Paul, which made him just as important of a character as Dawn was. Granted, he got fewer appearances, but his impact on the overall story was just as big as hers.

 

[Caseydia]

Cynthia, Lance, Drake, and Wallace need to show up in a major championship or something. Anything to see them again.

 

[BlueVapor]

OK, so she was introduced two months before him, they were still both introduced around the same time before DP started airing, so that doesn't change the fact that he was still as important as she was.

No he wasn't.

Dawn was a main traveling companion, who was in every episode. Paul was just simply a rival. No matter how you look at it, a traveling companion of Ash's is always more important than the rivals are.