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Will Decidueye, Typhlosion and Samurott get new forms?

MrJechgo

Well-Known Member
I don't think they will. Especially since Decidueye was just introduced a generation ago. Decidueye has one of my favourite designs, so I hope it stays the same.
Same here... unless they retype Typhlosion for Fire/Rock (as the Volcano Pokémon) and Samurott as Water/Fighting.

Grass/Ghost for Decidueye... still works for Legends, since it's also a sneaky archer, and ancient Japan had those as well ;)
 

Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
No no no, plz no changes. They are fine as they are They don't need additional typings either.
 

Stygian

Well-Known Member
gamefreak could easily just pull a "wow, over the course of your journey, your rowlet seems to be adapting to the hisui region!". I personally don't think the argument that they aren't native to Hisui means it's impossible they wont get new forms. This is the same studio that created an entire alt universe just to justify the existence of mega evolution in hoenn. they've never cared much for precise logic or consistency lol
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
Two of the three Pokemon fully evolve to have old school weapons, with Decidueye having a bow and arrows, and Samurott having sheathed swords. For those reasons, I don't think the starters will have final forms because they already fit the theme well.

Now I did not talk about Typhlosion, but maybe it was to fill the void. Fennekin could have been used to represent old time magic, but w/e.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
Two of the three Pokemon fully evolve to have old school weapons, with Decidueye having a bow and arrows, and Samurott having sheathed swords. For those reasons, I don't think the starters will have final forms because they already fit the theme well.

Now I did not talk about Typhlosion, but maybe it was to fill the void. Fennekin could have been used to represent old time magic, but w/e.
The theory behind Typhlosion getting picked was due to it being the Volcano Pokemon. Volcanoes are pretty common in the Hokkaido region of Japan
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
The theory behind Typhlosion getting picked was due to it being the Volcano Pokemon. Volcanoes are pretty common in the Hokkaido region of Japan
Well, it is true that there may not be a common theme behind the starters.
Perhaps they just looked at all Generations sans 4 and decided what would work best for the region.
 

AgentKallus

It's not a game Kate.
It's a new game with new Pokémon, and new forms. I doubt that they would have the starters be old designs and yet have new ones all over elsewhere in the game.

Now I understand that this could be justifiably seen as unfair to the trio these starters originally come from as it imbalances the trios, but we cannot allow balance to hamper creativity! And if they do new forms and the Legends games continue then I'm sure we'll see other starters get the same treatment and eventually balance things out. Like at the time Blaziken getting a Mega, but the other Hoenn Starters not seemed unfair but nowadays does it matter to us anymore that it got one early, no not really, they've all got one now.

gamefreak could easily just pull a "wow, over the course of your journey, your rowlet seems to be adapting to the hisui region!". I personally don't think the argument that they aren't native to Hisui means it's impossible they wont get new forms.
Exactly this is Pokémon, they come up with an idea and then make up an excuse to justify it's logic later.

I mean in another thread people were talking about how they can't include certain Pokémon in this game because old pokedex entries suggested they were only discovered recently, but that it's what GF are gonna think about when choosing pocket monsters for this game, and if it does end up contradicting the canon of an older game they can always slap an 'Ah but that was in that reality, this game takes place in a different reality so things like that have changed'.

All that said I'm only about 60-40 on if they get something new or not, but I hope they do, I mean Alolan Decidueye is one my favourite Pokémon but having a new form (or maybe Dartrix will evolve into something else in Hisui) won't take away the old one.
 

HappyHawlucha

Active Member
I think they’ll do a gradual adaptation for the starters, so the starter Rowlet/Cyndaquil/Oshawott will evolve into Hisuian Dartrix/Quilava/Dewott, who will then evolve into brand new final evolutions for them.
I'm thinking the Rowlet evolution will stay Grass/Flying this time, Cyndaquil will go Fire/Ground or Fire/Rock, and Oshawott will go Water/Fighting.
 

nickdt

Well-Known Member
I think they’ll do a gradual adaptation for the starters, so the starter Rowlet/Cyndaquil/Oshawott will evolve into Hisuian Dartrix/Quilava/Dewott, who will then evolve into brand new final evolutions for them.
I'm thinking the Rowlet evolution will stay Grass/Flying this time, Cyndaquil will go Fire/Ground or Fire/Rock, and Oshawott will go Water/Fighting.

Unless the game spans over a period of decades (Which i doubt), this is impossible as well.

When Rufflet in the Hisui region evolve, they become Hisuian Braviary. In the winter, this Pokémon flies in from somewhere farther north. It’s larger than the previously discovered form of Braviary and tends to live alone rather than in flocks.

This confirms Unovan Braviary to be the Original and that Unovan Rufflet and Unovan Braviary trekked to Sinnoh and gradually evolved over time.

Then we have other Regional forms.

Sudden climate change wiped out this ancient kind of Corsola. This Pokémon absorbs others' life-force through its branches. (Galarian Corsola is as such the original)

Alolan Sandshrew: After fleeing a volcanic eruption, it ended up moving to an area of snowy mountains. Its ice shell is as hard as steel.

Alolan Raichu: It's believed that the weather, climate, and food of the Alola region all play a part in causing Pikachu to evolve into this form of Raichu (So it adapted over time)

Alolan Diglett: The metal-rich geology of this Pokémon's habitat caused it to develop steel whiskers on its head.

Alolan Grimer: A Grimer, which had been brought in to solve a problem with garbage, developed over time into this form.

Alolan Exeggutor: Blazing sunlight has brought out the true form and powers of this Pokémon.

Alolan Meowth: This Pokémon was not originally found in Alola. Human actions caused a surge in their numbers, and they went feral. They're prideful and crafty.

Galarian Meowth: Living with a savage, seafaring people has toughened this Pokémon's body so much that parts of it have turned to iron.

Galarian Farfetch'd (Kantonian is the Original): The stalks of leeks are thicker and longer in the Galar region. Farfetch'd that adapted to these stalks took on a unique form.

Galarian Weezing: Long ago, during a time when droves of factories fouled the air with pollution, Weezing changed into this form for some reason.

Hoennian Zigzagoon: Zigzagoon that adapted to regions outside Galar acquired this appearance. If you've lost something, this Pokémon can likely find it.

Galarian Darumaka: It lived in snowy areas for so long that its fire sac cooled off and atrophied. It now has an organ that generates cold instead

Galarian Stunfisk - Living in mud with a high iron content has given it a strong steel body.

So as you see, Adapting to a region takes years, if not decades. As such, the starters that are brought in from the region cannot realistiscally get a regional form, unless Gamefreak foregoes their own established lore with the regional forms.
 
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PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
There's a reason they choose them. I'm almost 100% sure that they will have new forms.

I'm kinda doubting it at this point, though it's still possible.

None of those pokemon are native to the Hisui region, and thus would have no adapted variants. Of course, that lightning bolt could give them new forms, but that would just be a now-generic repeat of Dynamax Energy and Mega Energy.
 

WhiteBlair

ベストチャンピオン。
Hasn't the theory behind Decidueye's transition into Grass/Ghost always been the extinct nature of barn owls? That might no longer be the case in the Feudal Sinnoh. Besides, I wouldn't object to a redeemed version of Samurott either.
 

Lucario At Service

Calm Trainer
As others have said, since the trio are from their original regions instead of adapting to Sinnoh, there would be no reason for them to have forms.
Unless they do something like an Alternate Evolution through an Item or Condition.
Like Eevee has weird DNA to allow it to evolve into various forms, maybe they could just add a "special item" which reacts differently with Other Region Pokemons causing them to evolve in a different way (no need to rely on the "adapting to region" concept altogether).

There is also the example of Pokemon like Pikachu, Exeggcute, Cubone, Koffing, Mime Jr.
All of them don't have a Regional Form of their own, but do have Regional Evolution.
And those evolutions are triggered in the related region only irrespective of their origin (aka., a Pikachu would evolve into a Alolan Raichu when it evolves in Alola, even if it was brought from Kanto or any other Region). There is no mention of "adapting to region" concept for them.

So as you see, Adapting to a region takes years, if not decades. As such, the starters that are brought in from the region cannot realistiscally get a regional form, unless Gamefreak foregoes their own established lore with the regional forms.
You are forgetting one key point.
In those Games itself (like in Sun/Moon & Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon), if you transfer say a Pikachu or Cubone from Kanto or any other Games (in which they are available) to those games, they would always evolve into their Alolan form.

Now i understand that the local caught variants (aka., those caught in Alola) being subjected to "adapting" would have no choice to evolve in their Regional Evolution, but why is it even allowed for non-local variants (those transferred from other games) as well?

Like, if one wants to get a Kantonian Raichu or Kantonian Marowak in Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon, they would have to evolve them in the Ultra Space, even local Alola variants (aka., those caught in Alola) would evolve to Kantonian variant in Ultra Space.

This just proves that, while the lore does focus on the "adapting" part, GF don't really follow it that strictly themselves. Because if they had wanted, they could have locked Regional Evolutions to pokemon caught in those regions only (aka., only a Pokemon with a Caught region of Alola could evolve to an Alolan form).
 
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Wulava

danger chili pepper
Staff member
Moderator
As much as I like new forms, that would be pretty unfair to other starters of their respective gens.
Charizard has always been unfair.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
As much as I like new forms, that would be pretty unfair to other starters of their respective gens.
Charizard has always been unfair.
And when has Gamefreak ever cared about what’s fair. I mean heck Greninja has Battl Bond which allows it to transform in a process similar to Mega Evolution and yet Delphox and Chesnaught got nothing.

Giving the legends starters something new makes perfect sense because it further connects them as a trio and will generate hype and give people another incentive to buy the game.
 

Smeargle-Sketch

Sketcher of Smeargles
There's a reason they choose them. I'm almost 100% sure that they will have new forms.
Because they're popular starters from popular generations that all have ties to Sinnoh?

Johto: First you have the gen 4 remakes and the Sinjoh Ruins as well, all linked to Arceus and the legendaries. Cynthia shows up.
Unova: You have Cynthia's summer house and of course her battle in BW2.
Alola: You have Cynthia showing up at the Battle Tree

And thematically they all fit into the aesthetic of Japanese weapon techniques and military types. That would fit naturally in the timeline and setting of Legends.
Decidueye the archer, Smaurott the samurai and Typhlosion for canoneers and the Badger general/shogun yokai.

Now even more for why these were picked out of the rest:

Gen 1 starters just got their spotlight in SwSh
Gen 2 starters aren't as popular than Typholosion and Maganium was a focused Pokemon for New Pokemon Snap right off the bat.
Gen 3 starters got their spotlight in gen 6, Blaziken would conflict with Infernape's typing
Gen 5 Emboar's typing would conflict with Infernape's, Serperior isn't as popular as Rowlet, also its design is suppose to show European origins like the French (the gen 5 starter origin and main theme)
Gen 6 I guess they thought these guys just wouldn't work since they are more western influenced than eastern for the two and Greninja being a ninja instead of a honorable samurai might have made them pick Oshawott for more thematic reasonings.
Gen 7 Inciniroar and Primarina would not look right
Gen 8 They just showed up.

To have regional forms no matter how simplified it looks like from game mechanics, lore wise happen over many years after the pokemon living there have evolved to match or take advantage of the unique properties of said region.

Laventon literally just brought these starters over when he came. No time for adaptation, now will there be ancient Hissuian forms for the Sinnoh starters? That I'm more inclined to think might happen, even in the case of a form change.

Hasn't the theory behind Decidueye's transition into Grass/Ghost always been the extinct nature of barn owls? That might no longer be the case in the Feudal Sinnoh. Besides, I wouldn't object to a redeemed version of Samurott either.
Grass/Ghost cause Decidueye is based off a extinct species of Owl called the Stilt-Owl which was found in the Hawaiian Islands.
 

Nave

Well-Known Member
I don't really need them to get new forms. Just new animations. I want to see Samurott actually pull a sword out and slice someone.
 

Kyuu-Tales

織田信長☆FAN
And thematically they all fit into the aesthetic of Japanese weapon techniques and military types. That would fit naturally in the timeline and setting of Legends.
Decidueye the archer, Smaurott the samurai and Typhlosion for canoneers and the Badger general/shogun yokai.

Now even more for why these were picked out of the rest:

Gen 1 starters just got their spotlight in SwSh
Gen 2 starters aren't as popular than Typholosion and Maganium was a focused Pokemon for New Pokemon Snap right off the bat.
Gen 3 starters got their spotlight in gen 6, Blaziken would conflict with Infernape's typing
Gen 5 Emboar's typing would conflict with Infernape's, Serperior isn't as popular as Rowlet, also its design is suppose to show European origins like the French (the gen 5 starter origin and main theme)
Gen 6 I guess they thought these guys just wouldn't work since they are more western influenced than eastern for the two and Greninja being a ninja instead of a honorable samurai might have made them pick Oshawott for more thematic reasonings.
Gen 7 Inciniroar and Primarina would not look right
Gen 8 They just showed up.

To have regional forms no matter how simplified it looks like from game mechanics, lore wise happen over many years after the pokemon living there have evolved to match or take advantage of the unique properties of said region.

Laventon literally just brought these starters over when he came. No time for adaptation, now will there be ancient Hissuian forms for the Sinnoh starters? That I'm more inclined to think might happen, even in the case of a form change.
- While I agree it's not too much of a stretch to equate Typhlosion with daimyo due to its design, I find it unlikely that it has much in common with "cannoneers". Firearms and artillery were brought over by the Europeans in the sixteenth century--and even then, they weren't implemented in combat for a few decades. I think the volcano interpretation fits best in this case; volcanoes have many ties to legends, deities, and folklore, after all.

- To add:
Kanto starters: They have nothing to do with pre-modern Japan, and they have Mega evolutions and Gigantamax forms... like, really? (Don't forget Venosaur and Blastoise received the same treatment Gen VI meted out to Sceptile and Swampert in SwSh, though!)

Johto starters: Meganium is the cover 'mon of New Pokemon Snap and Feraligatr is an alligator, which isn't even native to Japan. Typhlosion could be a myriad of things indigenous to Japan, but not so much that it warrants a new form. While the Cyndaquil line is the only "native" (or rather, continental--provided Unova and Alola are indeed based off the United States and Hawaii) starter in Legends, Kansai and Hokkaido are radically different regions. The species would require time to adapt. (Even so, I'd say there's hardly a need due to Typhlosion's inherent nature. It would get along quite well in Hisui.)

Hoenn starters: Seeing as Hoenn is based off of Kyushu (located on the opposite end of Japan), which boasts its own near-extinct Ryukyu culture and unique fauna; I feel having any of those starters in Hisui would be counterintuitive.

Sinnoh starters: They've been shown to be native to the region, and I share the sentiment that it might be possible for Torterra, Infernape, and Empoleon to have new forms. That being said, only Empoleon warrants it in proper due to the general application of the term "emperor" the world over. I don't see the need in the other two instances where Torterra is the token "tortoise landmass" mythos while Infernape is the product of the Journey to the West saga, a tale that is popular across the Asian continent.

Unova starters: Serperior is not reminiscent of Japanese serpent legends. As for Emboar, I too believe it was overlooked because of repetitive typing, but it also has a very mainland(?) quality to it. Samurott was a given because it is the embodiment of something so distinctly Japanese. (And it is for that reason it requires no variant.)

Kalos starters: Gen VI presented us with the first cohesive group of third stage starters with human counterparts. Greninja had its time in the spotlight (plus, little-known fact, but ninja and samurai were not counterparts: the former did not come into existence until the sixteenth century or thereabouts), and Chestnaught and Delphox are deeply entrenched in European culture and have no place in the equivalent of pre-modern Hokkaido.

Alola starters: The decision to use Rowlet was a wise one, as archers have a place in Japanese legend and history; Hisui is a fine home for a Decidueye. Incineroar and Primarina are much too modern (and western) to figure into the cultural landscape of the setting.

Galar starters: This would be pointless, since you have them in SwSh. (Besides, imagine how ridiculous a drummer or soccer player or secret agent would be in pre-modern times!)

That being said, I can see GF re-imagining many starters they passed over from Generations IV through VIII with relative ease:

- A taiga or arctic Torterra (think of a fusion between Avalugg and Torterra)
- Infernape that more closely resemble native Japanese monkeys known for their fondness of hot springs
- Empoleon based on high-ranking members of the Japanese imperial court
- White Serperior reminiscent of those featured in Japanese lore
- Quadrupedal Emboar that run amok in the mountains
- A leaner, warring states period-style Chesnaught clad in plates that look like yoroi
- Delphox as a full-on kitsune trickster
- Greninja could be vagrant warriors or thieves (not really sure about this)
- Kabukimono Incineroar
- Noh Primarina
- Taiko drummer Rillaboom
- Performer Cinderace (there was a type of hackensack played in the courts, too)
- Scout Inteleon

I don't really need them to get new forms. Just new animations. I want to see Samurott actually pull a sword out and slice someone.
In Pokemon Masters EX, I believe they have Hilbert's Samurott physically do that for its Sync Move animation, so it's probably not out of the question?
 
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