Will Iris beating Cynthia create the worse backlash ever?

[Aryash Bajaj]

It's dumb as bricks that fighting Bea with his JN ace and Pikachu in JN86 was bigger challenge for him than fiighting the unova champion with a ressurected pokemon in it's first battle.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

I wasn't on board with Iris magically becoming champion in a short period of time even when considering the fact that her game counterpart is champion.Defeating someone who was portrayed as the strongest champion back in DP would only add fuel to the fire.

Even more than Alain beating Ash in Kalos?

I don't think so,I still believe Tobias beating Ash at the Sinnoh League was worse which was at a time where Ash was good enough to finally win at a league.All the buildup and development that he went through with his rival Paul,his sinnoh team,meeting the E4 members and using his reserves at the league just to lose to a trainer with 2 legendary pokemon and 4 Magikarps.

At least with losing to Alain it's more justified,he had his own side story prior to meeting Ash,his Charizard's feats in the Mega Evolution Specials were legitimate enough for me to believe that it could defeat Ash's Greninja at the Kalos League.Also it wasn't a one sided beatdown like it was against Tobias,both Ash and Alain were down to their final pokemon.

I even predicted that Alain would be Ash's next roadblock.

https://forums.serebii.net/threads/poll-do-you-think-ash-will-win-kalos-league.651555/page-2

Besides Ash already won in SM and before XY Ash lost again at a league where he could've won in but didn't.

 

[Leonhart]

As I've never particularly liked Shirona, I really don't care if Iris beats her. I wouldn't even mind if Iris does so in a convoluted or unrealistic matter. I'm sure the fandom would be livid about Shirona losing, but I've long given up caring about the fandom's various reactions to things they dislike.

 

[Eevee903]

It won't happen, but I really want it to. Cynthia is so overrated as a Champion and character in general. Her Champion fight is not anywhere as difficult as people make it out to be.

I agree with you. It would be great development for Iris, you know?

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Her Champion fight is not anywhere as difficult as people make it out to be.

Yeah, no. She is a very difficult opponent who happens to have a fully decked team with variety, the right natures, the right IVs and EVs, and a land shark menace that tears into the box legendaries one way or another even if they have a few levels ahead.

 

[HatersGonnaHate]

Iris creating controversy in the Pokémon anime community? Impossible.

 

[HatersGonnaHate]

This would just be poor writing.
The Anime story revolves around Ash and the primary focus is about him reaching Leon.

Right before the Master Class qualification match, we see Ash Greninja effortlessly toy around with one of Ash's ace. Subsequently, in the master class tournament, we see Leon's Charizard effortlessly destroy Alain's Charizard, a pokemon Ash Greninja could never defeat. Plus, Alain's Charizard unlike AG, was busy taking part in the PWC versus cutting weed.

As of now, Ash simply doesn't have the credibility to come close to being any form of a threat to Leon, based on all of his performances so far. While the win against Steven would definitely help, it would be ideal for Ash to come across one more trainer of similar monstrous strength before the Leon fight, and the perfect person for this would be Cynthia given that she's ranked 2, the anime's most established regional champion with the longest standing relationship with the MC.

Iris beating or even coming close to Cynthia would just be terrible narratively simply because of her previous performance against Ash in the Great Class. If Iris effortlessly destroyed Ash in that battle, it would've been a different story. However, that didn't happen. In fact, the performance there was just so pathetic such that Pokemon's already inconsistent power scaling was completely thrown out of the door while having her lose against pokemon like Ash's Dracovish and Dragonite.

If they wanted to give Iris her moment, they should've matched her against Lance or Diantha. Matching her against the perfect semi-final candidate for Ash was a big mistake.

Ash definitely needs a high stake semi-final combined with the Steven match to make him ready for a fight against Leon (The strongest trainer in the world). Iris actually forcing Cynthia to go all out or even beating her would absolutely lower all the stakes and more importantly, take away any credibility of Ash being any real threat to Leon.

I think the perfect match would be Cynthia mostly mentoring Iris throughout the match and focusing on her growth since the last time they fought but more importantly, Iris realising there is still a lot of room to grow/great pinnacle of strength to reach for her to become the Dragon Master (And have the strongest Dragon owned Pokemon).
This can be established by Cynthia Mega Evolving Garchomp to reveal to Iris what her being serious or going all out is really like.

Now the only rational option to force Cynthia to get serious and go all out, would be to have Iris come in with a unique ace. Something like Zekrom/Reshiram or maybe even Mega Latias/Latios (Outside of Haxorus that lost against Ash previous) and have Cynthia defeat it in a serious fight.

Again I repeat, the anime is about Ash and not Iris. The former is the MC and the PWC arc should focus on him just like how the focus of Project Mew should be on Goh and not Gary.

“wHaT AbOuT aSH?!?!”

Give it a rest. The anime is about Ash, but frankly it shouldn’t be. Not everybody gives a flying rats a** about his journey or how things affect him. There’s waaaaaaay more interesting and better characters than him. I’m taking great comfort in knowing your little wishful fantasy isn’t happening and Iris will push Cynthia to go all out.

 

[AJ97]

“wHaT AbOuT aSH?!?!”

Give it a rest. The anime is about Ash, but frankly it shouldn’t be. Not everybody gives a flying rats a** about his journey or how things affect him. There’s waaaaaaay more interesting and better characters than him. I’m taking great comfort in knowing your little wishful fantasy isn’t happening and Iris will push Cynthia to go all out.

Nobody could care less about what you think. It is an objective fact that the anime is about Ash, given that he's the MC.
No one cares what the minority of Iris stans think.

If you want horrible writing to justify your delusional thinking, then that's your choice.
Maybe don't pretend Iris pushing Cynthia to go all out makes any sense after her previous battle with Ash.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

It’s very unlikely that Ash will be out during the first round of the finals. The writers aren’t going to match him up with Leon or Cynthia that early. They might have him face Alain who Ash will probably defeat just so he can battle either Cynthia or Leon. The anime has been hinting at a battle with both for Ash and I don’t think that they will cop out and have Ash lose immediately. Ash will be perfectly fine until the second round. The question is who else besides Cynthia, Leon, and Ash will move on to the second round? Diantha seems unlikely because her entire team can easily be swept by Steel and Poison moves which all the other Masters have access to and Steven could easily stomp her out given the Steel type is his specialty. Lance or Iris could move on if they faced each other as they’d be evenly matched type wise and have Pokémon to cover the main weaknesses of their Dragons. Alain is a very likely candidate to advance in the finals unless he is matched up with Ash.

 

[HatersGonnaHate]

Nobody could care less about what you think. It is an objective fact that the anime is about Ash, given that he's the MC.
No one cares what the minority of Iris stans think.

If you want horrible writing to justify your delusional thinking, then that's your choice.
Maybe don't pretend Iris pushing Cynthia to go all out makes any sense after her previous battle with Ash.

Nobody with a reasonable brain thinks Iris pushing Cynthia to go all out is bad writing, only you and your fellow Ash fanboys think that.

your bogus analysis that you keep repeating because you think the sun sets on Ash’s lame ass is a joke. It’s not that deep and the writers don’t care, hence Cynthia is pushed to use mega evolution against Iris.

 

[Espeonite]

I hate charizard

 

[Eevee903]

I hate charizard

I agree.

Nobody with a reasonable brain thinks Iris pushing Cynthia to go all out is bad writing, only you and your fellow Ash fanboys think that.

your bogus analysis that you keep repeating because you think the sun sets on Ash’s lame ass is a joke. It’s not that deep and the writers don’t care, hence Cynthia is pushed to use mega evolution against Iris.

I mean Iris can still lose but push Cynthia to her limits. That would be a win-win situation for me. I dont get that people have issues with that.

 

[Xuxuba]

I'd personally be more interested in seeing Ash and Cynthia fight than him vs Diantha, Lance or Iris again, which would be the case if Cynthia ended up losing here, but i still doubt it'd be the "worst backlash ever", as any previous companion has their own fanbase and people rooting for them.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

No she isn't. Most of the difficulty came from the fact that she was probably the first champion a lot of people faced. I know I found Lance in Gold way harder than he actually is considering I was like eight when fighting him. The Pokemon I remember having on my team were Infernape, Staraptor, Floatzel and Palkia. I wish I remembered the rest of my team. I know I didn't have Lucario or Roserade or Luxray, and I know for a fact that Lucian gave me far more trouble than Cynthia since I lost to him at least 3 times (and probably more) before getting to Cynthia, and I know I was underleveled for that fight.

Not true. I played every main line game and battled every Champion and Cynthia was the most difficult I had to face. I was able to beat Lance with underleveled Pokémon and without any Dragon Pokémon in Gen II and I mostly slaughtered Wallace with Sceptile and Manectric in Emerald and even two shot Milotic with Thunder. Cynthia I had trouble with because of Spiritomb. It would take out half my team before I could take it out and it took me seven tries to finally defeat Cynthia and this was without transferring any Pokémon to another game and trading it over to the one that I was playing.

 

[Almighty Zard]

Nobody with a reasonable brain thinks Iris pushing Cynthia to go all out is bad writing, only you and your fellow Ash fanboys think that.

Not everyone thinks this way.

Here's my take, these are the 8 strongest people we know of in the world.

So why shouldn't they go full force against each other? They are considered to be the best of the best, so they should be fighting at their best all the time, holding nothing back period.

 

[GLTSRY]

Strawmann argument with the James comment
Last I remember, neither of those legendaries were a literal guardian deity of a region, with an ultra class all out Z move, and also a mon that managed to push back a main box legendary
Even the anime refutes the narrative that Ash winning the Alola league didnt matter when in the biggest tournament in the world, the only achievement talked about for Ash is him being the Alola Champion
Not him winning the BF, not him being a runner-up in Kalos League, but the Alolan Champion
With the standards JN has set, Kukui is easily champion tier

It’s not a strawmann argument. Ash has won a league where people who never battled reached the round of last 16 and James the QF. This shows that the quality of the league is abysmal.

The “guardian deity” however is a prime example for a straw man. What sort of justification is that? Regice was deemed as too strong for humanity to handle - so does that Pokefact now suddenly make the BF feat better?

There’s literally no indication in the entirety of JN that would lead to the conclusion that Kukui is on champion level. Quite the opposite, him needing to gang up on Ash with Kiawe and Gladion shows clearly that he isn’t champion tier, because spoiler, Steven won’t need help from others to fight Pikachu.

 

[janejane6178]

It’s not a strawmann argument. Ash has won a league where people who never battled reached the round of last 16 and James the QF. This shows that the quality of the league is abysmal.

The “guardian deity” however is a prime example for a straw man. What sort of justification is that? Regice was deemed as too strong for humanity to handle - so does that Pokefact now suddenly make the BF feat better?

There’s literally no indication in the entirety of JN that would lead to the conclusion that Kukui is on champion level. Quite the opposite, him needing to gang up on Ash with Kiawe and Gladion shows clearly that he isn’t champion tier, because spoiler, Steven won’t need help from others to fight Pikachu.

Wonderful I agree with every every every word.
!!!!!

 

[GLTSRY]

Whether all the participants in that league were quality level doesnt negate the fact of who Ash did end up beating
How is the Guardian deity a straw man argument? Unlike your fun 'poke fact', its actually stated in the anime, heavily part of the lore of it being a guardian deity and its Z move has lore in the anime itself of protecting the entire region from threats, plus it actually knocked back a freaking main box legendary, that was shown extremely powerful like the other main box legendaries
Defeating that and its Z move, along with Kukui's OP incineroar, is so much greater than losing to Alain's MCX

Also, that episode literally shows Kukui does NOT need Kiawe and Gladion to gang up on Ash, quite easily being a hurdle for Ash without them and even getting rid of Kiawe in one quick swoop to battle Ash and make him go all out. Along with the narrative beat of Ash being chanted as the Champion and his feat being the only notable one in the biggest tournament in history, a very clear picture is painted
You cannot tell me Iris, Drasna, Raihan and Wallace, all who were high E4 tier/champion tier were more of a hurdle than Kukui, powerscaling for them didnt make sense, the arbitary powerscaling against Kukui and other SM rivals just to downplay Ash's status when the narrative itself uses it as Ash's defining feature absolutely is illogical

You can keep claiming Ash's achievements and growth in SM meant nothing to his character but the very next series and overall advancement of Ash in the narrative proves you wrong

The difference between the loss to Alain is that we actually know how strong MC-X is. It knocked back a box legendary ( Zygarde would’ve been one technically) in just its base form and defeated an E4 ace despite being exhausted. Kukui’s “OP” Incineroar is nowhere near this level, and just when using these feats, MC-X is already at least at Tapu Koko’s level.

They chose chose to underline the importance of his victory in Alola, which was nice and made for a cool episode, but it doesn’t scale to his other accomplishments. Of course, some folks in Sinnoh won’t be chanting his name, but his victory over Paul and his performance against Tobias is already worth more than the Alola League, even when including Kukui.

The difference between Kukui and Wallace et al. is that we have canonic proof that they are E4/champion level. There is no such proof for Kukui besides headcanon.

 

[Decidueye23]

I dont think a bunch of teenagers whining about a match result is bigger than children going to hospital, a major change in production of anime in general and the near death of Pokemon
But sure dislike bombing previews is somewhat equivalent to the show going on hiatus and almost getting cancelled

Strawmann argument with the James comment
Last I remember, neither of those legendaries were a literal guardian deity of a region, with an ultra class all out Z move, and also a mon that managed to push back a main box legendary
Even the anime refutes the narrative that Ash winning the Alola league didnt matter when in the biggest tournament in the world, the only achievement talked about for Ash is him being the Alola Champion
Not him winning the BF, not him being a runner-up in Kalos League, but the Alolan Champion
With the standards JN has set, Kukui is easily champion tier

Kukui being champion tier is debatable. Especially when, tapu koko isnt even his pokemon. And the league win is also very debatble matter considering the battle against kukui wasnt part of the league. Ash clearly is champion tier. Kukui is clearly very strong, but i wiuld place him a little below raihan.

 

[Eevee903]

Why would Iris beating Cynthia cause backlash? It makes sense story wise. It would be pretty satisfying in my opinion