Will Iris beating Cynthia create the worse backlash ever?

[lolipiece]

Who cares about hypotheticals. It ain't happening anyway.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

Cynthia and Leon are pretty much equals in terms of strength when it comes to the games and so far in the anime, they are both described as being two of the best trainers in the world and they have yet to have an on screen loss against a challenger. Ash winning the Alola League is impressive but you have to remember that it was the very first League held in the region and it was mainly the locals of Alola that had competed and the region isn’t that large in terms of population. Iris becoming the Unovan Champion makes sense as Alder wasn’t exactly the best Champion in both the games and anime and was virtually an older version of Brock with red hair. I mean the man literally fell asleep during a battle in the anime! So Iris was able to grow stronger as a trainer and take out Alder who would be easy for her to take out since Druddigon and Vanilluxe are the only Pokémon that have a type advantage against her Pokémon but she has moves that are super effective against them.

 

[Bortgreen]

I think a potential Ash vs Cynthia being badly written/animated would create a way bigger backlash

 

[AJ97]

Cynthia and Leon are pretty much equals in terms of strength when it comes to the games and so far in the anime, they are both described as being two of the best trainers in the world and they have yet to have an on screen loss against a challenger. Ash winning the Alola League is impressive but you have to remember that it was the very first League held in the region and it was mainly the locals of Alola that had competed and the region isn’t that large in terms of population. Iris becoming the Unovan Champion makes sense as Alder wasn’t exactly the best Champion in both the games and anime and was virtually an older version of Brock with red hair. I mean the man literally fell asleep during a battle in the anime! So Iris was able to grow stronger as a trainer and take out Alder who would be easy for her to take out since Druddigon and Vanilluxe are the only Pokémon that have a type advantage against her Pokémon but she has moves that are super effective against them.

I disagree with most of your comments.

1) Cynthia and Leon are not equal in the anime nor the games. Cynthia is arguably a much greater challenge in the games and Leon is definitely the superior trainer in the anime. There is a reason why Leon is ranked first and referred to as the unbeatable champion in the PWC while Cynthia isn't. I think it is also fair to assume Cynthia has likely even lost to Leon in the past.

2) Alder did come across as an easy going champion. However, he was still a regional Champion and was shown to be a formidable trainer when serious. Claiming he was an easy champion for Iris to beat or something like that makes no sense. Plus, we don't even know whether Iris actually beat him because he could've very well have vacated his post.

3) Additionally, in Black and White, we see Caitlin (An Elite four member from Unova), being able to hold her own against Cynthia in battle. I think it is fair to say that both Alder and even Iris would be > more than that level. Hence, they should be more than capable enough, to hold their own against DP/BW Cynthia.

At the end of the day, I think we need to first forget about travel companion Iris when it comes to power scaling cause yes, if it weren't for the games, there is no way Iris would've been scaled to a Regional Champion Tier trainer. This can be easily inferred based on Ash's feats over the years or the even perfect example in the form of Alain who still wasn't made Regional Champion of Kalos despite being the first regular trainer to defeat an Elite four member on screen and also winning a Regional League.

 

[Jibanyan]

No? Leon beating Cynthia would cause more backslash, I think thats the reason why they evaded it

 

[AJ97]

Agreed with this. Alder was not exactly that impressive in the games either. Ash’s win in Alola opened up a floodgate where his friends could have big achievements as well. They probably figured since he became Alola Champion there isn’t anything stopping them from making her Champ as well. They were more or less the same level in BW anyway. Wish they explained it more though

1) Claiming Alder was not impressive in the anime "just cause of his personality" is too much of a stretch. We see Caitlin hold her own against Cynthia and Alder would objectively be better than her.

2) Ash's win in Alola was no different than his Orange Islands win. Alola was not an established Regional League and did not have a Champions League with battles against the Elite four + Regional Champions. Ash winning the Alola league did not bring him to Regional Champion tier. If you recall, Leon basically treated Ash like a rookie with high potential.

3) Iris was written as the Regional Champion because of the games. Outside of that, there was no reason for her to be scaled as Regional Champion when the MC was always shown to be vastly inferior to them region after region.

 

[AJ97]

No? Leon beating Cynthia would cause more backslash, I think thats the reason why they evaded it

The fact that Cynthis is ranked 2nd while Leon is ranked 1st; with the latter being referred to as the Undefeated Strongest Trainer in the World, already establishes Leon is better than Cynthia and very likely has beaten her in the past. (We see Flint battle Leon in the Master Class and Cynthia was up there even before him based on Volkner's comments. No reason why she hasn't challenged him for the title in the past.)

That said, I do agree that there would be a lot of backlash if Leon effortlessly took out Cynthia, the way he did Alain.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

1) Claiming Alder was not impressive in the anime "just cause of his personality" is too much of a stretch. We see Caitlin hold her own against Cynthia and Alder would objectively be better than her.

2) Ash's win in Alola was no different than his Orange Islands win. Alola was not an established Regional League and did not have a Champions League with battles against the Elite four + Regional Champions. Ash winning the Alola league did not bring him to Regional Champion tier. If you recall, Leon basically treated Ash like a rookie with high potential.

3) Iris was written as the Regional Champion because of the games. Outside of that, there was no reason for her to be scaled as Regional Champion when the MC was always shown to be vastly inferior to them region after region.

You seem way too invested in this but the Alola League made him Champion tier which is why he’s where he’s at right now. They always want to make the Ash small guy hence why Iris somehow beat him in the Masters 8 despite being behind.

Ash is a rookie compared to Leon who’s most likely been in way more battles and have more experience. Leon isn’t aware of Ash’s other achievements but that’s almost every series.

 

[Jibanyan]

The fact that Cynthis is ranked 2nd while Leon is ranked 1st; with the latter being referred to as the Undefeated Strongest Trainer in the World, already establishes Leon is better than Cynthia and very likely has beaten her in the past. (We see Flint battle Leon in the Master Class and Cynthia was up there even before him based on Volkner's comments. No reason why she hasn't challenged him for the title in the past.)

That said, I do agree that there would be a lot of backlash if Leon effortlessly took out Cynthia, the way he did Alain.

Tell that to Cynthia fans (me)

 

[Almighty Zard]

Leon's dominance over Alain indicates how powerful Leon really is. As of now, from a plot perspective, there just isn't enough narrative to support Ash being a worthy enough challenger to Leon if they battle.

the more I see of leon and think about it, he almost feels like a combo of Ash and Alain, Ash's personality, but has Alain's "OP" feeling, even has the same ace just with a different gimmick.

Can someone really be considered all powerful just by one pokemon alone? Cause what's the point of even having other pokemon if only 1 you have matters?

Alain did do one thing if nothing else, he chipped Leon by beating his Rilaboom, if Leon was truly meant to be unbeatable I feel that Alain wouldn't have knocked out any of his pokemon period.

But his Charizard took out Rilaboom un-mega'ed while it had the Dyna boosts in one strike, even with type advantage that is still a feet.

As for the current discussion, like @Ignition i'm wondering why people want this "backlash" all of a sudden

 

[GLTSRY]

You seem way too invested in this but the Alola League made him Champion tier which is why he’s where he’s at right now.

Beating some clowns in Alola didn’t make him a champion tier trainer. He reached E4 level in Kalos and rose to champion level in JN

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

It would certainly make for...... a discussion. If you can call it that.

 

[SoraFan23]

After seeing Ash losing in the Kalos league but him winning in the Alola League I honestly don't care at this point. I'm still wondering when he's going to become that "Pokémon Master" that he's always dreamed of because we heard it so many times.

 

[Almighty Zard]

After seeing Ash losing in the Kalos league but him winning in the Alola League I honestly don't care at this point. I'm still wondering when he's going to become that "Pokémon Master" that he's always dreamed of because we heard it so many times.

All leagues have to start somewhere, and Ash was credited as Alola's champion in the last episode.

I think he is champion level, i feel he always has been but because of the "Reset" factor he kept getting held back, but that didn't happen this time.

 

[U.N. Owen]

This reads like flame war bait, but I’ll humor it.

No, it won’t.

I’ll go back on my word when I see over 500 users in 1 subforum just flaming one episode like we did at the end of the Kalos league. Nothing can top that.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

This reads like flame war bait, but I’ll humor it.

No, it won’t.

I’ll go back on my word when I see over 500 users in 1 subforum just flaming one episode like we did at the end of the Kalos league. Nothing can top that.

This. You really needed to be there to see the gravity of that day.

 

[Palamon]

Yeah, no, it won't create backlash bigger than Ash's loss in Kalos. And, tbh, I don't think there should be backlash if Iris wins against Cynthia. She's grown as a person since her Unova days. I get that people like Cynthia a little more than other characters, but it's silly to create backlash if Iris does win. I highly doubt anything will get as much of an outrage as the Kalos league's ending did.

 

[Blue Saturday]

The main issue is that Iris becoming Champion and her growth to reach that point was mostly offscreen because as good a trainer as she was, she definitely wasn't close to that level when we left her at the end of the Unova series, especially compared to Cynthia, the strongest Champion until Leon arrived on the scene and one who's feats we've seen first-hand and someone who Iris idolised and considered above her.

I honestly felt this was due to a change in writing style around Satoshi allowing him to actually progress versus some type “power up” they just are allowing E4&Champions to be defeatable these days. That being said I can buy Iris while absent during XY-SM grew and progressed off-screen. Kasumi managed to get Mega Evolution and make a goal out of making her gym the best in the world, then we have Takeshi who is finally a doctor with authority who uses Mega Evolution too alongside Lucky being Happiness now.

We honestly need a more Chronicles-styled series to bring the gap if anything. But yeah Satoshi could be the best trainer in the world with some on-point strategies and never stand up to E4 or Champions because the end result of the writing is about them being untouchable. I just feel like the series has scaled him up to handle them and others around him. Like Shinji should be not even a minor threat but he can make Satoshi struggle hard enough to need a new move to win. While testing him in the way a gym leader would or heck even Saito.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Imo the Kalos League backlash was the biggest in the whole franchise, yes, bigger than Dexit, Electric Soldier Porygon, etc
How do you **** something up that bad?

 

[DatsRight]

I feel like it's kinda similar to the whole deal with mythicals/legendaries, in that for a VERY long time the show didn't budge with these guys, the champions and Elite Four were always this greater scope that the main cast couldn't hope to match. Only Diantha all the way in XY was shown to be "mortal" and the fact it was to hype for Ash's "victory" left people a bit cynical about that one. And yet now suddenly EVERYTHING is free game.

I definitely feel like JN could have done with tracking Iris' performance more, even just an extra episode or two showing what she's achieved.