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Will the Alola League be called a "minor" league? (slight spoilers)

Do you think the Alola League will be regarded as a Minor League in the anime?


  • Total voters
    21

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
I dont know that 8 gym badge rule is different for each league when OS-XY leagues had same rule : get 8 gym badges and go to a league. Problem.with 151 royale is big clusterf*ck like every trainer can battle anyone. There can be savings(Gladion saved Lillie IIRC),ganging up on someone(IIRC TS ganged on Gladion) some ground Pokemon could literally use Dig and come.out when it is Top 16. Ghost Pokemon.can vanish and wait when other do.jobs for.them. Flying Pokemon can easily hit pray when two Pokemon are fighting and when they are tired and hit them etc. In gyms you battle normally 1 on 1 no side help,coward stuff etc.

Honestly I wish that they had Top 128 for Alola league rather than battle royale.

Well, we don't know how many gyms each region has and how trainers can win those badges, so this is still different between regions.

Also yeah, top128 could work similar to the Unova League, with 1vs1 and maybe top64 too, then round of 16 and quaterfinals 2vs2, and then semifinals/finals 3vs3, or semifinals 3vs3 and finals 6vs6
 

potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
Well, we don't know how many gyms each region has and how trainers can win those badges, so this is still different between regions.

We do know that every region has at the least 8 Gyms. Based on the simple fact we've seen Ash battle 8 Gyms in every region he's competed in where there have been requirements. Also, outside of Kanto, which was just early weirdness, every gym we saw made it that you had to beat the Gym Leader or in Maylene's case tie with her (which in that case she felt good enough about Ash's skills and awarded him the badge). So yes, every region except Alola has had it that you need to beat the Gym Leaders to earn 8 badges to enter a League.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
We do know that every region has at the least 8 Gyms. Based on the simple fact we've seen Ash battle 8 Gyms in every region he's competed in where there have been requirements. Also, outside of Kanto, which was just early weirdness, every gym we saw made it that you had to beat the Gym Leader or in Maylene's case tie with her (which in that case she felt good enough about Ash's skills and awarded him the badge). So yes, every region except Alola has had it that you need to beat the Gym Leaders to earn 8 badges to enter a League.

Again, we don't know that. We only know that you need to have 8 gym badges, and each region outside of Alola has at least 8 gym leaders. That's it.
 

potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
Again, we don't know that. We only know that you need to have 8 gym badges, and each region outside of Alola has at least 8 gym leaders. That's it.
Ash and Brock (a former Gym Leader mind you) both state that you don't earn a badge until after winning a Gym match. This occurs when they reach Sunnyshore and see that Volkner is just giving badges away instead of battling. Here's the exact wording from the two characters:
Ash: "But badges are something you earn after winning a Gym match, right?"
Brock: "You're right. Having a Gym like this is completely pointless."
Those lines alone literally say that in order to get a proper Gym Badge one must defeat the current Gym Leader in a battle. And even then, if League inspectors show up like they did to both the Cerulean and Pewter Gyms and deem them as not meeting standards (something they most definitely would have said about Volkner just handing badges out), they would have shut down the Sunnyshore Gym.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Ash and Brock (a former Gym Leader mind you) both state that you don't earn a badge until after winning a Gym match. This occurs when they reach Sunnyshore and see that Volkner is just giving badges away instead of battling. Here's the exact wording from the two characters:
Ash: "But badges are something you earn after winning a Gym match, right?"
Brock: "You're right. Having a Gym like this is completely pointless."
Those lines alone literally say that in order to get a proper Gym Badge one must defeat the current Gym Leader in a battle. And even then, if League inspectors show up like they did to both the Cerulean and Pewter Gyms and deem them as not meeting standards (something they most definitely would have said about Volkner just handing badges out), they would have shut down the Sunnyshore Gym.

Yes, winning a gym Battle is how badges are supposed to be winned, but that's not neccessary the case with every single trainer in every single battle. And League inspectors are not a thing on Unova and Kalos, and they still cannot hear about this problems.
So nope, the 8 gym badges requirement doesn't make a League more prestigious than other Leagues, and those trainers are strong by the Journey and the constant training, they only need to win the badges because it was a requirement such as Alain being E4 only with his training.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Yes, winning a gym Battle is how badges are supposed to be winned, but that's not neccessary the case with every single trainer in every single battle. And League inspectors are not a thing on Unova and Kalos, and they still cannot hear about this problems.
So nope, the 8 gym badges requirement doesn't make a League more prestigious than other Leagues, and those trainers are strong by the Journey and the constant training, they only need to win the badges because it was a requirement such as Alain being E4 only with his training.
League inspectors are a thing across the board, or did you notice that all Gyms in Kanto now bear the same League sigil as those in Unova and Kalos? And barring Volkner and Skyla, both examples proven to be Gym Leaders that were running their Gyms incorrectly, show me one instance outside of OS where a trainer got a badge outside of winning a battle.

That said, we keep saying of course a trainer can get strong without the badges, and be strong without them, but the badges are still a necessary qualification for prestige. It's the reason sports team compete to enter *playoffs* not just finals off the bat. If you're so strong, there's no hassle in the badges. But those badges prove to be an important function for most trainers and for the League itself. You keep saying Alola is just as prestigious, but if you brought it into the real world, it wouldn't be because there are no requirements. Do you think the strongest trainers would really want to compete? Against a bunch of kids who have barely battled in their lives, regardless of entry requirements? Hell, Ash got angry for the suggestion of getting a badge for free by Sinnoh, believing it to be something you earned, and even declined Brock giving him the Boulder Badge originally because he didn't earn it, in his opinion (something that showed its consequences by the League).

There is very much a reason badges exist and its not just as an arbitrary notion that can be swept aside simply because "the strongest would compete anyway".

Because answer me this: would Paul take part in the Alola League of SM?
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
League inspectors are a thing across the board, or did you notice that all Gyms in Kanto now bear the same League sigil as those in Unova and Kalos? And barring Volkner and Skyla, both examples proven to be Gym Leaders that were running their Gyms incorrectly, show me one instance outside of OS where a trainer got a badge outside of winning a battle.

That said, we keep saying of course a trainer can get strong without the badges, and be strong without them, but the badges are still a necessary qualification for prestige. It's the reason sports team compete to enter *playoffs* not just finals off the bat. If you're so strong, there's no hassle in the badges. But those badges prove to be an important function for most trainers and for the League itself. You keep saying Alola is just as prestigious, but if you brought it into the real world, it wouldn't be because there are no requirements. Do you think the strongest trainers would really want to compete? Against a bunch of kids who have barely battled in their lives, regardless of entry requirements? Hell, Ash got angry for the suggestion of getting a badge for free by Sinnoh, believing it to be something you earned, and even declined Brock giving him the Boulder Badge originally because he didn't earn it, in his opinion (something that showed its consequences by the League).

There is very much a reason badges exist and its not just as an arbitrary notion that can be swept aside simply because "the strongest would compete anyway".

Because answer me this: would Paul take part in the Alola League of SM?

Again, by prestigious, the badges requirements is irrelevant, which is related to the "minor" League, which is an inexistent term in the anime. With or without the requirements, the final rounds will be the same because trainers waiting to win the league should train with or without the badges.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Again, by prestigious, the badges requirements is irrelevant, which is related to the "minor" League, which is an inexistent term in the anime. With or without the requirements, the final rounds will be the same because trainers waiting to win the league should train with or without the badges.
I was never arguing it as minor. It's clearly a League that's intended to be on the same level as the others. But prestige is a different issue entirely from a major/minor type of division.

I was arguing why badges matter, and why they hurt the perception of the Alola League.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
I was never arguing it as minor. It's clearly a League that's intended to be on the same level as the others. But prestige is a different issue entirely from a major/minor type of division.

I was arguing why badges matter, and why they hurt the perception of the Alola League.

It is just fandom perception as someone said before in the first page of the thread.
Badges requirement is a rule such as any other rule, so leagues can skip this part and it is totally fine. In the end the strongest trainers will be the same because if someone want to win, it should train with or without the requirements.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Well one thing to remember about the Alola trials is that while the gym badges are largely just a proof of qualification, the Z Crystals themselves serve as a reward for the trainer, granting them access to a Z Move, still giving validation to doing said trials.

I dunno, admittedly Alola seems kinda behind the other regions in terms of being battle focused. The few that WERE battle motivated rank up well enough, but it did feel like there was a REASON the league had only just been established.
 
Last edited:

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
It is just fandom perception as someone said before in the first page of the thread.
Badges requirement is a rule such as any other rule, so leagues can skip this part and it is totally fine. In the end the strongest trainers will be the same because if someone want to win, it should train with or without the requirements.
though overall it's also a thing of professionalism and trainer quality. For the latter there were a few high-quality trainers, but the vast majority of trainers weren't really anything to write home about in comparison with other leagues aside from maybe indigo. Then for the former the league wasn't really well handled in-universe. We had stuff like Nanu's wrong call, Hala not noticing blatant cheating, Team Skull vandalizing the place (ok this is minor and more on Alola's police than on the league, but still), there only being one battlefield, or the VS screens looking slapped together.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
though overall it's also a thing of professionalism and trainer quality. For the latter there were a few high-quality trainers, but the vast majority of trainers weren't really anything to write home about in comparison with other leagues aside from maybe indigo. Then for the former the league wasn't really well handled in-universe. We had stuff like Nanu's wrong call, Hala not noticing blatant cheating, Team Skull vandalizing the place (ok this is minor and more on Alola's police than on the league, but still), there only being one battlefield, or the VS screens looking slapped together.

The quality of trainers is more about the proper trainers than about the tournament. About the professionalism, we see those type of things like Hala not noticing a cheat intent because we see the entire tournamente from start to finish. On previous leagues, we only see like less than 5% of the whole tournamente because it was usually Ash's battles and a Rival vs Rival battle.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I don't think they will bring that up(writers) but Alola league definitely is not as important as other leagues(Kanto,Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova and Kalos) because of some things you have said like: no requirements as in no badges, battles are all 1 on 1 except semi finals and finals which are 2 on 2 and 3 on 3. No full battles except exhibition match ( but I am talking before getting a trophy), everyone can enter. You can use wild Pokemon in it(?), and battles are basically from Top 16 which are basically how those BW tournaments are formed instead of Top 64+.

That again is just in your head, in terms of the universe it is as important as sinnoh kalos etc., The anime treats it as such, you really need to learn how to differentiate canon and fanon
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
The anime treats a lot of things as true, that doesn't mean they're right to do so lol, especially when there's evidence to the contrary.

That isn't " fanon. "

Thre's no evidence since the term "minor" league is inexistent in the anime. So it is actually the opposite. And again, such as someone mentioned in the first page of the thread, yes, that is fanon.
 

potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
That again is just in your head, in terms of the universe it is as important as sinnoh kalos etc., The anime treats it as such, you really need to learn how to differentiate canon and fanon
If you look at it from an in-universe perspective, it's clear that this league was on a lower quality than those handled by the League. The fact that there was no official League symbol or that it was League endorsed. Aether practically funded the entire project. League trained Refs weren't brought in but rather Kukui picked the Kahunas to handle it instead. Just these tiny things show that in-universe it's on a lower importance level than other Leagues. There was no help from the official League making it feel more like its own little tournament instead of a League sponsored event.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
The quality of trainers is more about the proper trainers than about the tournament. About the professionalism, we see those type of things like Hala not noticing a cheat intent because we see the entire tournamente from start to finish. On previous leagues, we only see like less than 5% of the whole tournamente because it was usually Ash's battles and a Rival vs Rival battle.
Honestly, we see the missed professionalism because the Kahunas are not trained referees. An episode in AG shows the grueling process for a League sanctioned official ref, and it's considered a big deal to get one, hence the weight Ash and Paul's battle at Lake Acuity got by having one there. It's rigorous and produces professional refs that don't let stuff like that slip by.

Maybe the choice to have the Kahunas helped it feel like a unified little tournament, but it does knock down its professional capacity by not having trained refs but what essentially amounts to the local gurus instead. Because, I mean...the Kahunas are picked by the Tapus. Where does that give them qualifications to judge a battle? Plus, their close ties to the community could lead them to having bias in some situations, even if not shown.

The amount of the League shown is irrelevant because literally no other League gave us room to doubt the competency of its refs the way Alola did. Even Kanto where it was clear sleep was treated as a KO in the Indigo League on a general level (likely as a reference to the fact you could potentially never wake up from sleep in Gen 1). I honestly don't think anyone would call the competency of the Kahunas into question if it wasn't for the Hau battle, though, which is an Ash battle against an established character and thus would have been shown even in past series.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Honestly, we see the missed professionalism because the Kahunas are not trained referees. An episode in AG shows the grueling process for a League sanctioned official ref, and it's considered a big deal to get one, hence the weight Ash and Paul's battle at Lake Acuity got by having one there. It's rigorous and produces professional refs that don't let stuff like that slip by.

Maybe the choice to have the Kahunas helped it feel like a unified little tournament, but it does knock down its professional capacity by not having trained refs but what essentially amounts to the local gurus instead. Because, I mean...the Kahunas are picked by the Tapus. Where does that give them qualifications to judge a battle? Plus, their close ties to the community could lead them to having bias in some situations, even if not shown.

The amount of the League shown is irrelevant because literally no other League gave us room to doubt the competency of its refs the way Alola did. Even Kanto where it was clear sleep was treated as a KO in the Indigo League on a general level (likely as a reference to the fact you could potentially never wake up from sleep in Gen 1). I honestly don't think anyone would call the competency of the Kahunas into question if it wasn't for the Hau battle, though, which is an Ash battle against an established character and thus would have been shown even in past series.

Yes, but also they have its "VAR" (not literally) which is another professional thing, and even on real game sports referee decisions can change if something was wrong. It could be unprofessional if in the end Hau win that battle because he never defeated his rival.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
The anime treats a lot of things as true, that doesn't mean they're right to do so lol, especially when there's evidence to the contrary.

That isn't " fanon. "

There is no evidence to the fact that the alola league is any less important than the other league, again, purely a fan conception based on their expectations. Alola is as important as the other leagues in the anime and the viewers don't get to decide whether it's right to do so or no, that's the writers decision. So trying to claim alola is less important is again a fanon opinion, not a canonical true statement. Purely an opinion
 
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