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Will the Alola League be called a "minor" league? (slight spoilers)

Do you think the Alola League will be regarded as a Minor League in the anime?


  • Total voters
    21

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
If you look at it from an in-universe perspective, it's clear that this league was on a lower quality than those handled by the League. The fact that there was no official League symbol or that it was League endorsed. Aether practically funded the entire project. League trained Refs weren't brought in but rather Kukui picked the Kahunas to handle it instead. Just these tiny things show that in-universe it's on a lower importance level than other Leagues. There was no help from the official League making it feel more like its own little tournament instead of a League sponsored event.

Ever since DP the league association as we know with Mr. Goodshow (or whatever his name was) hasn't been seen again, BW and XY too were their own events. Same as alola, the kahunas are prestigious figures in the alolan culture, makes sense why kukui would ask them. The aether foundation being involved in helping to set up the league doesn't demean it. Again, these are your own rules you are stating to lessen it's importance when the narrative states nothing of that sort, if anything it gives it much more importance by giving it so many episodes. I don't mind if people say they didn't like alola league or it doesn't match up to other leagues for them, their opinion, but when they try and present it as fact that it's less important is when I'm irked. They are trying to ignore canon to fit their ideals of what should have been. The alola league is as major as any other league.
 

Akkipeddi

All set to be a nice guy
Yes, but also they have its "VAR" (not literally) which is another professional thing, and even on real game sports referee decisions can change if something was wrong. It could be unprofessional if in the end Hau win that battle because he never defeated his rival.

VAR is only used when players have an issue with the on field referee's decision, and he calls for a further review. When Nanu declared Rowlet as unable to battle, Ash accepted the decision and didn't challenge, instead it was Hala who randomly decided to overrule the decision. That is more unprofessional since it shows bias from Hala's side who shouldn't be randomly overturning the on field referee's call since it was never challenged in the first place.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
VAR is only used when players have an issue with the on field referee's decision, and he calls for a further review. When Nanu declared Rowlet as unable to battle, Ash accepted the decision and didn't challenge, instead it was Hala who randomly decided to overrule the decision. That is more unprofessional since it shows bias from Hala's side who shouldn't be randomly overturning the on field referee's call since it was never challenged in the first place.

I mean the anime can have different rules. Hala was referred to as the chief referee, for all we know he has the right to overturn any decision he feels is wrong by the referee so that the match is fair. Don't equate it with real life sports in terms of what rules they should follow, clearly in the anime the chief referee could do what he did, doesn't mean the alola league is more unprofessional
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
VAR is only used when players have an issue with the on field referee's decision, and he calls for a further review. When Nanu declared Rowlet as unable to battle, Ash accepted the decision and didn't challenge, instead it was Hala who randomly decided to overrule the decision. That is more unprofessional since it shows bias from Hala's side who shouldn't be randomly overturning the on field referee's call since it was never challenged in the first place.

Not really, it usually is a VAR Team with access to a video operation room that said to the field referee that it should watch a controversial action in the VAR.
 
Thre's no evidence since the term "minor" league is inexistent in the anime. So it is actually the opposite. And again, such as someone mentioned in the first page of the thread, yes, that is fanon.

What are you talking about? I wasn't referring to the term " minor " league when I made the comment. If you're going to jump in a response, please try to understand what I was saying in my reply.

There is no evidence to the fact that the alola league is any less important than the other league, again, purely a fan conception based on their expectations. Alola is as important as the other leagues in the anime and the viewers don't get to decide whether it's right to do so or no, that's the writers decision. So trying to claim alola is less important is again a fanon opinion, not a canonical true statement. Purely an opinion

There is plenty of in-universe evidence already extensively mentioned and documented in this thread and in several others when you compare this league to previous leagues. Pretending these differences don't exist is laughable.

What is an opinion is if these differences( no 6v6 battles, lack of entry barriers, etc) make the league much less prestigious than others/worse. That isn't fanon. You're using the word incorrectly. Fanon is when fans make up stuff to supplement their canons. I'm not making anything up because what is a fact is that those differences do exist and it makes the Alola " league " markedly different from the other leagues.

What I am doing is having an opinion or an interpretation based on the evidence presented in the show.
 
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RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
What are you talking about? I wasn't referring to the term " minor " league when I made the comment. If you're going to jump in a response, please try to understand what I was saying in my reply.



There is plenty of in-universe evidence already extensively mentioned and documented in this thread and in several others when you compare this league to previous leagues. Pretending these differences don't exist is laughable.

What is an opinion is if these differences( no 6v6 battles, lack of entry barriers, etc) make the league much less prestigious than others. What is a fact is that those differences do exist and it makes the Alola " league " markedly different from the other leagues.

Entry barriers are pointless in terms of prestigious if the final rounds are the same because in the end only the strongest trainers advance to those rounds, with or without entry barriers. And it is the Alola LEAGUE, no matter how much are you in negation.
 
Entry barriers are pointless in terms of prestigious if the final rounds are the same because in the end only the strongest trainers advance to those rounds, with or without entry barriers. And it is the Alola LEAGUE, no matter how much are you in negation.

...entry barriers keep weak people from participating. The people who don't make it aren't on the level of those who participate in the league itself. What kind of assbackwards argument is this lmao? Having weak people participate in something brings the overall prestige of the tournament in my eyes. What the gym badges do is insure a certain level of quality in all of the trainers.

Yeah, I don't really consider it to be a league on the level of the others. The differences are too great. The quotations stay.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
...entry barriers keep weak people from participating. The people who don't make it aren't on the level of those who participate in the league itself. What kind of assbackwards argument is this lmao?

Yeah, I don't really consider it to be a league on the level of the others. The differences are too great. The quotations stay.

Entry requirements only make the average trainer stronger, without correlation with the prestigious of the league. Leagues with weakest average trainers can be more prestigious by a lot of factors such as real world sports leagues.
And sadly for you, it is in the level of the other leagues since it was treated like that. There's no "minor" leagues as a concept in the anime.
 
Entry requirements only make the average trainer stronger, without correlation with the prestigious of the league. Leagues with weakest average trainers can be more prestigious by a lot of factors such as real world sports leagues.
And sadly for you, it is in the level of the other leagues since it was treated like that. There's no "minor" leagues as a concept in the anime.

It's sad to say, but I'm not sure you understand the efficacy of entry barriers. Let me break it down for you. Let's use a real work example: the NBA.

How does the NBA determine its championship? It has playoffs. Can any team just participate in the playoffs? No. Within each conference, the 8 teams with most wins qualify for the playoffs. What does this do? It insures a certain level of quality. It means the teams who participate in the playoffs have a baseline level of quality and they aren't teams with terrible records of losing.

The same concept applies with the league. The gym badges insure a certain level of quality with the trainers who participate. This isn't your average joe rando with participating as it was done in the Alola " league. "

Similar kinds of entry barriers are used throughout sports and other competitions. I personally think they absolutely make it more prestigious, but you can disagree with that.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
It's sad to say, but I'm not sure you understand the efficacy of entry barriers. Let me break it down for you. Let's use a real work example: the NBA.

How does the NBA determine its championship? It has playoffs. Can any team just participate in the playoffs? No. Within each conference, the 8 teams with most wins qualify for the playoffs. What does this do? It insures a certain level of quality. It means the teams who participate in the playoffs have a baseline level of quality.

The same concept applies with the league. The gym badges insure a certain level of quality with the trainers who participate. This isn't your average joe rando with participating as it was done in the Alola " league. "

Entry barriers are used throughout sports and other competitions. I personally think they absolutely make it more prestigious, but you can disagree with that.

Entry barriers are by time restrictions. There's a reason why FIFA expanded the number of entries to world cup competitions, because it is always better if its possible.
Again, entry barriers has no correlation with prestigious, in the end, with or without it the final rounds are the same, which are the relevant ones.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
There is plenty of in-universe evidence already extensively mentioned and documented in this thread and in several others when you compare this league to previous leagues. Pretending these differences don't exist is laughable.

What is an opinion is if these differences( no 6v6 battles, lack of entry barriers, etc) make the league much less prestigious than others/worse. That isn't fanon. You're using the word incorrectly. Fanon is when fans make up stuff to supplement their canons. I'm not making anything up because what is a fact is that those differences do exist and it makes the Alola " league " markedly different from the other leagues.

What I am doing is having an opinion or an interpretation based on the evidence presented in the show.

Nowhere did I say the differences don't exist. Yes they do exist, however saying that these differences make the alola league less important than the other leagues is untrue. The alola league being less important than other leagues is a fanon thing because it is a concept created entirely by fans. Nowhere does the anime indicate it's less important than any other league and the narrative gives it a lot of focus. There is nothing that states that if a league doesn't have entry requirements or doesn't have a 6v6 battle it is a less important league. The battle royale was meant to weed out the weak trainers anyway and the top 2 finalists were the ones who completed all the grand trials anyway. And the in universe reason was simply so they could give focus to other characters too and with 3vs3 finale they can show all battles, the kukui match was a 6v6 anyway that lasted 4 episodes which is the amount of episodes taken to show 6v6 battles in other leagues , plus we got all the focus on the other characters.
Again perfectly fine to dislike the way it was handled or dislike the no entry thing that's purely subjective
But stating that these differences make the alola league less important is false and has no evidence to support it, hence I will term it fanon, the anime itself gives it as much importance as did the marketing for it.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
That again is just in your head, in terms of the universe it is as important as sinnoh kalos etc., The anime treats it as such, you really need to learn how to differentiate canon and fanon
Again based on all those unavoidable facts I gave and not fanon that would make Alola league less important than other leagues.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
There is no evidence to the fact that the alola league is any less important than the other league, again, purely a fan conception based on their expectations. Alola is as important as the other leagues in the anime and the viewers don't get to decide whether it's right to do so or no, that's the writers decision. So trying to claim alola is less important is again a fanon opinion, not a canonical true statement. Purely an opinion
There's evidence: no 8 gym badges requirement instead anyone can battle, no 6 on 6 , battles are usually 1 on 1 until the ends,wild Pokemon can be used, Top 16 instead of Top 64 etc. So yes there's evidence why Aloal league is not as important as other leagues.

Ever since DP the league association as we know with Mr. Goodshow (or whatever his name was) hasn't been seen again, BW and XY too were their own events. Same as alola, the kahunas are prestigious figures in the alolan culture, makes sense why kukui would ask them. The aether foundation being involved in helping to set up the league doesn't demean it. Again, these are your own rules you are stating to lessen it's importance when the narrative states nothing of that sort, if anything it gives it much more importance by giving it so many episodes. I don't mind if people say they didn't like alola league or it doesn't match up to other leagues for them, their opinion, but when they try and present it as fact that it's less important is when I'm irked. They are trying to ignore canon to fit their ideals of what should have been. The alola league is as major as any other league.
How are they their own events?. BW League: had 8 gym rule, had 6 v 6 as of Top 8, had 128 people competing . XY is same except it had 64 people competing( same as DP league) and had 6 on 6 on 4 competitors.I don't know how are those on their own lol.These are not out "rules" we are creating but anime rules that are pretty much canon lol. So your logic implies that 8 gym badge rule is headcanon it's non existent only in our heads? What Ash has been getting for those years then? Bottle caps? Lol, many episodes = greater importance, nice logic there. Ever heard of quality > quantity? Not to mention that mostly during those episode it was half filler half important for the league lol. Those are all canon within Pokemon universe. Fanon would be saying that Alola league is not a league , it is, it's just not as important compared to other main leagues because of those rules.

Nowhere did I say the differences don't exist. Yes they do exist, however saying that these differences make the alola league less important than the other leagues is untrue. The alola league being less important than other leagues is a fanon thing because it is a concept created entirely by fans. Nowhere does the anime indicate it's less important than any other league and the narrative gives it a lot of focus. There is nothing that states that if a league doesn't have entry requirements or doesn't have a 6v6 battle it is a less important league. The battle royale was meant to weed out the weak trainers anyway and the top 2 finalists were the ones who completed all the grand trials anyway. And the in universe reason was simply so they could give focus to other characters too and with 3vs3 finale they can show all battles, the kukui match was a 6v6 anyway that lasted 4 episodes which is the amount of episodes taken to show 6v6 battles in other leagues , plus we got all the focus on the other characters.
Again perfectly fine to dislike the way it was handled or dislike the no entry thing that's purely subjective
But stating that these differences make the alola league less important is false and has no evidence to support it, hence I will term it fanon, the anime itself gives it as much importance as did the marketing for it.
It's not fanon thing, it's backed up by facts. You're implying that Lillie, TR Oak ( top 16 competitors) are competing in as important league as XY, DP Kanto, Johto while in reality, they wouldn't even get like 2 badges. It does indicate: giving anyone can participate is first giver.
Yes it does state that it would be less important because league was meant to be serious event where people test their skills in the journey and against many people and gym leaders where everyone can win ( and not just Ash or several people) and not the league where guy who picked up his nose for 20 years in a office decided to take on the league and end up being Top 16 or girl who was afraid of Pokemon whom Gladion saved ended up being Top 16, or two people who always blast off by simplest Thunderbolt end up being Top 16 lol.Those are obvious indicators that Alola league is less important league. Sure in future it may not be, since rules can change. Sure you can debate that "oooh maybe Kanto, Johto, XY leagues when they were just created were like Aloal league". That may be true, but we're talking about them as they were presented in the anime. So, ALOLA LEAGUE AS OF NOW IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS OTHER LEAGUES. IT CAN BE AS IMPORTANT IN THE FUTURE WHEN RULES ARE ADJUSTED TO OTHER LEAGUE RULES.
Maybe like give it Top 64 instead of battle royale but give that they have to pass Totems and Kahunas in order to get into Alola league, make Top 4 and finale 6 on 6, Top 16 at least 3 on 3 etc.

Ash vs Kukui happened after trophy, Ash got trophy before that so, it doesn't count within league, but it counts as league arc.I just gave you all evidence I need.I have question for you is Orange League as important as other leagues?

I mean the anime can have different rules. Hala was referred to as the chief referee, for all we know he has the right to overturn any decision he feels is wrong by the referee so that the match is fair. Don't equate it with real life sports in terms of what rules they should follow, clearly in the anime the chief referee could do what he did, doesn't mean the alola league is more unprofessional
Oh that too: unprofessionalism at max. Nanu said Rowlet is unable to battle but Hala said nope; he's OK. You won't see that to referee in other Pokemon leagues.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
@CMButch Jesus you keep repeating the same things over and over again. Your "facts" aren't facts, but assumptions you are making to discredit the league when it's been treated in the narrative as important as any other league. No entry requirements again doesn't mean it's less important than any league nothing states that. Even if the trainer's in the alola league are weaker it doesnt mean the alola league is less important than any other league, the words you written in bold are again you trying to pass of your opinions as fact when the anime has never stated that. This is a constant problem with you. I don't see the sense of replying if you're just gonna continuously do that
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
@CMButch Jesus you keep repeating the same things over and over again. Your "facts" aren't facts, but assumptions you are making to discredit the league when it's been treated in the narrative as important as any other league. No entry requirements again doesn't mean it's less important than any league nothing states that. Even if the trainer's in the alola league are weaker it doesnt mean the alola league is less important than any other league, the words you written in bold are again you trying to pass of your opinions as fact when the anime has never stated that. This is a constant problem with you. I don't see the sense of replying if you're just gonna continuously do that
Those are facts lol. So you're saying that to qualify to a serious league you don't need badges, battles should be 1 on 1, no 6 on 6 battles, anyone can battle etc lol.If that's the case why didn't Ash just go to a league and say "screw badges", I wanna battle in a league? Since you claim those are not facts lol.
I am not discarding the league at all, I just say it's not as important as those other leagues. Same way Orange League is not as important.
Problem with me? Problem with you is saying about that "narrative". NARRATIVE DOESN'T MATTER MUCH. LOOK AT ORANGE LEAGUE: Ash got 4 badges and battled Drake and won Orange League. Narration-wise,Orange League is a league but that doesn't mean it's as important as other leagues.Same goes for Alola.This is same problem with Kukui: "Oh Kukui is strongest trainer in Alola based on that "narration" he's Champion level or E4. Feats? Feats don't matter.Titles given officially? Also doesn't matter. What matters is that he's strongest in Alola and by narration he's magically on that level." So even if per say Kukui shown to be stronger than Mewtwo you would still say "oooh by narration he would be Champion/E4 level" instead of looking a fact that he beat Mewtwo who is >>>>>>>>>Champions and E4.But no, I have a problem lol. So, that means: feats/facts/logic > narration.
Those entry requirements + system of a league >>>>>> narrative.BTW you still didn't answer about Orange League, is it as important as Sinnoh league per say?
Yes it does, it means it's less important because league is build up as those BW tournaments, rather than leagues that we have seen. But again, Alola league just began so probably in future they will build up gyms or something, add 6 on 6s etc to make league as important as other league. League that Ash has been wasn't that important comparing if he won any other league.
Yes it does, because if weaker trainer win in those league and they go to battle gym leaders they would fail per say, thus discrediting their entire victory as less important.
If 16 Caterpie battle in some league and Caterpie wins and he goes off to battle gyms against Arcanine per say, Arcanine would win, despite Caterpie won in a league and didn't pass in serious league makes his victory at that league less important than what he would have done in that serious league.

CONCLUSION:Alola league in SM is less important than Kanto, Jonto, Hoenn, SInnoh, Unova and Kalos leagues we have seen. But probably or hopefully it will be as important when they upgrade it. And yes probably all those leagues were like Alola because they have to start somewhere, so I don't know why you are triggered. LMAO. I said all those leagues are like Alola league aka not that important BUT THEY UPGRADED TO BE MORE IMPORTANT LATER. Alola league will likely be same, but as of SM, since IT'S A START. Factually it's not.
 
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SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
CONCLUSION:Alola league in SM is less important than Kanto, Jonto, Hoenn, SInnoh, Unova and Kalos leagues we have seen. But probably or hopefully it will be as important when they upgrade it. And yes probably all those leagues were like Alola because they have to start somewhere, so I don't know why you are triggered. LMAO. I said all those leagues are like Alola league aka not that important BUT THEY UPGRADED TO BE MORE IMPORTANT LATER. Alola league will likely be same, but as of SM, since IT'S A START. Factually it's not.

I'm not triggered lol I can care less for your opinions but none of this is factual, it's your own headcanon and assumptions you're putting forth as facts when the anime has never stated this. Yes future editions of alola league can refine and improve on the current set up but that doesn't make this league less important than any other league. Jeez
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
I'm not triggered lol I can care less for your opinions but none of this is factual, it's your own headcanon and assumptions you're putting forth as facts when the anime has never stated this. Yes future editions of alola league can refine and improve on the current set up but that doesn't make this league less important than any other league. Jeez
No it's a fact that probably every league* from start is obviously not as important as a league which is established and upgraded in later time( if they do that anyway).( probably every league was like Alola from start and later they added stuff; I mean we don't know that Kanto was like Alola but let's say it was).
It's less important now because it's a start and not well established and upgraded. It will be more important and as important as other leagues once they add gyms/kahuna requirements, 6 on 6(Ash vs Kukui wasn't part of a league but part of an arc, Ash got trophy when he beat Gladion so up that it's the end of a league), Top 64 trainers etc.
So, yes time is important factor here and it depends if they do these requirements anyway. Hopefully they do.
 
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potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
800px-Alola_League_logo.png
That isn't the League symbol. That's something Kukui and the organizers for that tournament decided to use. Since The BW anime this (image below) has been the official League Symbol used to designate it being part of the official League. Even Kanto had them added in SM when the class visited the Cerulean Gym. So once more, they lacked the official League symbol.

340
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
That isn't the League symbol. That's something Kukui and the organizers for that tournament decided to use. Since The BW anime this (image below) has been the official League Symbol used to designate it being part of the official League. Even Kanto had them added in SM when the class visited the Cerulean Gym. So once more, they lacked the official League symbol.

340

The Kalos League symbol is different

Remo_Pokemon.png
 

potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
The Kalos League symbol is different

Remo_Pokemon.png
Yes, the symbol for the tournament is different. But the League symbol is present in Kalos on Ash's badge case. There was no symbol anywhere in Alola. Now in the future it could be added in for future Leagues such as Kanto did but the current Alola League has had no relationship with the symbol.
vlcsnap-2020-09-09-09h36m12s187.png
 
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