Goku's character was "tarnished, dragged out and run to the ground"?... Hardly..I just hope they don't bring Ash back as the lead. I'm no Ash hater; I say this because his story had a great ending, open-ended though it was; I'd rather it not be tarnished and dragged out and run into the ground like another famous anime hero's was (Son Goku, in case anyone asks).
Goku is still an endearing character in superSon Goku, in case anyone asks
Yeah when he returned home in the Buu Saga it was revealed that he went through intense training in the Otherworld and learned how to tap into both SSJ2 and SSJ3 during the past seven years post Cell Saga.Outside of his personality change, we see immense growth and progress in his character from a strength perspective which is more or less what Dragon Ball has always been about.
The problem with Super was the lack of on screen training being shown for characters that got new powerups/transformations. The ToP is a perfect example of this.This would be like saying whole of Dragon Ball Super was awful, when it clearly wasn't.
He was at his worst in GT,he always struggled to balance both being a fighter and a school teacher,the recent movie may have fixed this problem.On the other hand, the character who was actually tarnished or run to the ground was Gohan. Guy went from being the Saiyan with the greatest Latent ability, to a School Teacher.
In super it really felt like Goku got flanderized and his dumbass factor got increased tenfold. Like, he was already stupid (I have issues with the latter half of Z relying on everyone consistently making horrible decisions), but Super pushed it way too far. It felt like they were going to deconstruct it at the start of the ToP with characters acknowledging Goku's stupidity is legitimately a danger to reality, but that went absolutely nowhere.Goku's character was "tarnished, dragged out and run to the ground"?... Hardly..
Outside of his personality change, we see immense growth and progress in his character from a strength perspective which is more or less what Dragon Ball has always been about.
This would be like saying whole of Dragon Ball Super was awful, when it clearly wasn't.
On the other hand, the character who was actually tarnished or run to the ground was Gohan. Guy went from being the Saiyan with the greatest Latent ability, to a School Teacher.
Are you talking about Goku & Vegeta or the rest of the cast? In case of the former, I disagree as they were consistently shown to be training with Whis in Super who is the strongest fighter in the Universe and leagues ahead of every character of the Tournament of Power. I don't really see much of an issue with their power scaling in Super.The problem with Super was the lack of on screen training being shown for characters that got new powerups/transformations. The ToP is a perfect example of this.
I absolutely agree. The personality change in Super didn't really make sense at all. While Goku was never really the brightest and was very naive, he was never Super level stupid. Maybe all that fighting caused Brain damage.In super it really felt like Goku got flanderized and his dumbass factor got increased tenfold. Like, he was already stupid (I have issues with the latter half of Z relying on everyone consistently making horrible decisions), but Super pushed it way too far. It felt like they were going to deconstruct it at the start of the ToP with characters acknowledging Goku's stupidity is legitimately a danger to reality, but that went absolutely nowhere.
I'm all for Gohan not being a crazy battle maniac like his father. However, he's always been someone who comes through when it actually matters. Especially after his pitiful performance against Frieza, I think it was a missed opportunity to not have him train with Whis considering he possesses far more talent than both Goku and Vegeta.As for Gohan.....yeah I'm mixed on him, I like that he's happy and that does feel in character, but it feels like his potential was wasted.
Idk his stupidity never bothered me tbh.In super it really felt like Goku got flanderized and his dumbass factor got increased tenfold. Like, he was already stupid (I have issues with the latter half of Z relying on everyone consistently making horrible decisions), but Super pushed it way too far. It felt like they were going to deconstruct it at the start of the ToP with characters acknowledging Goku's stupidity is legitimately a danger to reality, but that went absolutely nowhere.
As for Gohan.....yeah I'm mixed on him, I like that he's happy and that does feel in character, but it feels like his potential was wasted.
I'm saying both because yeah it was shown that Goku & Vegeta trained whether it be with Whis or the Time Chamber but when it pertains to the Tournament of Power I thought there were instances where they both gained new power that didn't feel truly earned like back in Z. Then there's the other characters like Frieza and Android 17 that got huge powerups without much explanation behind it.Are you talking about Goku & Vegeta or the rest of the cast? In case of the former, I disagree as they were consistently shown to be training with Whis in Super who is the strongest fighter in the Universe and leagues ahead of every character of the Tournament of Power.
You don't see a problem with how Future Trunks does better against Fused Zamasu than Vegito Blue? Or Tien struggling against Master Roshi even though he surpassed him a long time ago. Then there's the U6 Saiyans.I don't really see much of an issue with their power scaling in Super.
I would argue Goku's and Vegeta's training in Super is far more intense than anything they did back in Z. Any training with Whis should exponentially be >>> than whatever training they did before.I'm saying both because yeah it was shown that Goku & Vegeta trained whether it be with Whis or the Time Chamber but when it pertains to the Tournament of Power I thought there were instances where they both gained new power that didn't feel truly earned like back in Z. Then there's the other characters like Frieza and Android 17 that got huge powerups without much explanation behind it.
1) Trunks did not do better than Future Vegito. His powerup was basically equivalent to a Spirit Bomb.You don't see a problem with how Future Trunks does better against Fused Zamasu than Vegito Blue? Or Tien struggling against Master Roshi even though he surpassed him a long time ago. Then there's the U6 Saiyans.
He apparently trained prior to facing Goku/Vegeta but the question was what kind of training did he go through.As for Freiza, the show already explained that he was a prodigy with immense potential that far surpasses that of Goku's and Vegeta's. His only flaw is that he doesn't train.
More like Goku had access to better resources like King Kai/Gravity Room/Other World Training and then just training smarter by not overdoing it and giving the body some rest. Vegeta was natrually stronger than Goku at the beginning,but Goku had a headstart due to the resources he had around him.Goku possessing more talent than Vegeta and being able to advance faster was always emphasized.
If a Spirit Bomb was all that it took to do damage to Zamasu then Goku should've just did it from the start instead of fusing but still even with a Spirit Bomb coming from Future Trunks he should still be nowhere near Vegito Blue or anything he did to Zamasu.1) Trunks did not do better than Future Vegito. His powerup was basically equivalent to a Spirit Bomb.
Vegito Blue easily held an advantage over fused Zamasu and only lost because the fusion ran out. The only time where it seemed like he was supposedly hurt was when he was pretending to bait Zamasu with an attack.
Roshi hasn't done anything in Z except read dirty magazines and watch women aerobics on television,meanwhile Tien went to meet with Mr.Popo/Kami at the Lookout and then King Kai in Other World. After that he had some impressive feats for being an earthling.2) Tien was fighting Roshi powered by the other fighter's witchcraft.
But was Base Vegeta using God Ki while fighting Cabba? If I remember correctly Base Copy Vegeta defeated SSJ3 Gotenks.3) As for U6 Saiyans, remember that their Base level of strength is significantly stronger than Z Goku and Z Vegeta. Base Caba was strong enough to hold his own against Base Vegeta when they fought during the U6 tournament. As for why their base strength is strong, the question is why not?
lol?I just hope they don't bring Ash back as the lead. I'm no Ash hater; I say this because his story had a great ending, open-ended though it was; I'd rather it not be tarnished and dragged out and run into the ground like another famous anime hero's was (Son Goku, in case anyone asks).