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the actual postmien said:
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Without Speed Boost, Blaziken's not Uber
- Thread starter ParaChomp
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Original151Rocks
My Answer Is Yes
So if delcatty got speed boost it would be uber? No way Why dont people just counter it, like we counter ferrothorn?
Excitable Boy
is a metaphor
Last generation, Blaziken was UU. Besides Speed Boost, what new toys does Blaziken have this generation that could feasibly allow it to not only keep up with the increased power of UU, but propel it into the OU tier?
Or, why the hell would anyone want to use Blaze Blaziken in 5th Gen OU over other Pokemon?
Notice how this ban doesn't affect Sharpedo, Yanmega, or Ninjask, the three other Pokemon with access to Speed Boost. If Speed Boost itself was the problem, Speed Boost as an ability would be banned, rather than a single Pokemon that is broken with it.
As to countering it, I agree. I think it's perfectly acceptable to run Slowbro on every team.
^ Well, Blaziken did get HJK, which is argueably a much better STAB than Superpower despite its imperfect accuracy. I still don't think its fast enough to be OU by any means without Speed Boost though so it would likely be UU, but Speed Boost still isn't the only thing it got.
That said, the only reason people make a big deal over Blaziken getting banned instead of Blaziken + Speed Boost combo being banned, is because its Blaziken. Yea, its Uber. Get over it.
That said, the only reason people make a big deal over Blaziken getting banned instead of Blaziken + Speed Boost combo being banned, is because its Blaziken. Yea, its Uber. Get over it.
kaiser soze
Reading ADWD
Haha I thought you were going to make an argument defending the title.
SB blaziken does "over-centralize the metagame."
A complex ban would be a bad precedent. Next thing you know we ban porygon2 and dusclops from the eviolite, Speed boost + baton pass, garchomp from holding a choice scarf, and anything else silly.
SB blaziken does "over-centralize the metagame."
A complex ban would be a bad precedent. Next thing you know we ban porygon2 and dusclops from the eviolite, Speed boost + baton pass, garchomp from holding a choice scarf, and anything else silly.
Blue Harvest
Banned
I don't like that we can't do "complex bans" when Swift Swim + Drizzle is already a rule. But I guess "we draw the line at this" has turned to "ok just this once, NEVER AGAIN". We also banned Inconsistent which we could technically do to Blaziken too.
The point is that was has been done was done to benefit the metagame. Even though its stupid, Inconsistent and SS + drizzle bans made the game better. Allowing Blaziken back in OU without Speed Boost is dumb because it doesn't make the game better, it just further complicates the already overcomplicated rules of competitive Pokemon so 10 year olds can use their favorite Pokemon.
BTW you can use Blaziken in OU on Pokemon Online's tiers so stop complaining.
The point is that was has been done was done to benefit the metagame. Even though its stupid, Inconsistent and SS + drizzle bans made the game better. Allowing Blaziken back in OU without Speed Boost is dumb because it doesn't make the game better, it just further complicates the already overcomplicated rules of competitive Pokemon so 10 year olds can use their favorite Pokemon.
BTW you can use Blaziken in OU on Pokemon Online's tiers so stop complaining.
actually last I heard PO was using smogon OU tiers. Though that might have just been temporary for when Smogon's own server was down, and I never really looked into it so that might be a total lie. lol
That's not exactly what I said....
I didn't say he should be OU. I said he could be a candidate. He doesn't do too awful this generation. He doesn't do too well, but he's not the most god-awful thing that you can use. I find him more useful than Charizard, and you'd be surprised how many people use it.
@Blue Harvest: The way I see it, a Blaziken + Speed Boost ban is more specifically a nerf, while the the Drizzle + Swift Swim was a more general complex ban. The former affects a single broken Pokemon (i.e. picking favorites, slippery slope, etc.) while the latter affects an entire broken playstyle and entire teams. Personally, nerfs are where I draw the line, although I'm not really a big fan of complex bans in general.
And I honestly don't think the Moody ban is in the same league as a Speed Boost ban...
And I honestly don't think the Moody ban is in the same league as a Speed Boost ban...
PO created a seperate ladder for Smogon tiers temporarily because Smogon was having one of its moments where it would crash for a week, and they wouldn't get it back up in time. They didn't completely change their tiers, it was segregated in terms of the ladder, though technically people were on the same server (the PO server.)
#TWERKTEAM
Banned
Banning only Speed Boost Ken and not Ken entirely is like saying, "You can use Rayquaza but it can only be Serious Nature, it can't have Extremespeed or DD, it can't have STAB moves and it must carry Iron Ball at all times and have 56 EV's max."
See complex bans aren't fun.
See complex bans aren't fun.
This beautifully sums up my thoughts on the matter.
I mean, it is technically a complex ban, but we'd basically just be nerfing blaziken to keep it around. So bad OU players who'd use non speed boost blaziken can use it. How is that in any way worthwhile.
Also random note 252 HP/4 SpD Slowbro is 2hko'd by Mix Blaziken's HP Electric/Grass.
Drizzle + Swift Swim is an ability + ability ban while Speed Boost + Blaziken would be an ability + Pokemon ban, which is the difference I guess. But that was kind of summed up in jesusfreak's post.
PoignantLyrics
Banned
Except saying "it wouldn't be a slippery slope if you don't let it become one" is a bad argument due to what others have already said in this thread. You're nerf'ing a Pokemon into OU - unless that Pokemon drastically improves the metagame, others will continue to say "But you've nerfed Pokemon x, why not a b and c". Eventually, it'll descend into a slippery slope, no matter what "lines" you draw.
The simplest way to do it would be to have separate tier entries for the DreamWorld ability versions of certain Pokémon. ie: DW Blaziken in uber, normal Blaziken in UU. It sets one clear condition across the board, so leaves no reason to foolishly believe it would lead to lv70 Ho-ohs, etc.
It was not long ago this subject was last discussed at length. Everyone would foolishly assume that having the tiers more accurately reflect what it true in this case would lead to move or level-based bans, even though there was no evidence to support this foolish assumption. Smogon are too lazy and set in their ways. I would encourage any who wish to use Blaze Blaziken in their OU team to simply ask their opponent politely if they minded you using Blaze Blaziken. The previous thread certainly showed that people were happy accept facing one.
It was not long ago this subject was last discussed at length. Everyone would foolishly assume that having the tiers more accurately reflect what it true in this case would lead to move or level-based bans, even though there was no evidence to support this foolish assumption. Smogon are too lazy and set in their ways. I would encourage any who wish to use Blaze Blaziken in their OU team to simply ask their opponent politely if they minded you using Blaze Blaziken. The previous thread certainly showed that people were happy accept facing one.
Psycho Cut
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I see why Smogon has done what they've done, but I don't like it. I like Blazekin, he's my far and away my favourite starter pokemon, and I'd have quite like to give him a shot in OU, or UU, if it came to that. But thanks to Speed Boost, that's a no-no 
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