Worst Moments of XY(&Z)

[satopi]

We just needed Serena to lose in legitimate ways. All her losses were basically tripping on her own shoelaces and was never because she didn't do anything wrong in hindsight, but was just outplayed. Then again, how the hell do you outplay someone in a showcase.

And she didn't even continue performing despite the mistake. Had she continued, it wouldn't have really been that bad of a mistake but no, she had to make it dramatic and stop her Performance. Usually, people would tell you that no matter what, the show must go on! People won't even notice your mistake or it'll become an afterthought if you continue.

I seriously hated on how dramatized Serena made that scene like her Pokémon's foot got broken or something. And it just HAD to be when she was front in center in front of the judges and she just collapsed to the floor, holding Fenniken, and wallowed in her mistake in the middle of the catwalk. She couldn't have just smiled and wave or improvised. She never even outright explained nor said her embarrassment, just that she was sad that she lost.

 

[snorlax512]

And she didn't even continue performing despite the mistake. Had she continued, it wouldn't have really been that bad of a mistake but no, she had to make it dramatic and stop her Performance. Usually, people would tell you that no matter what, the show must go on! People won't even notice your mistake or it'll become an afterthought if you continue.

I seriously hated on how dramatized Serena made that scene like her Pokémon's foot got broken or something. And it just HAD to be when she was front in center in front of the judges and she just collapsed to the floor, holding Fenniken, and wallowed in her mistake in the middle of the catwalk. She couldn't have just smiled and wave or improvised. She never even outright explained nor said her embarrassment, just that she was sad that she lost.

I also felt that she overdramatized her first loss lol. I understand that she was upset and wanted change, but seriously? Is having a haircut such a life-changing event?

 

[DatsRight]

It wasn't just the showcases, the plot bended over backwards just so everything went her way. Even in that little battle in the showcase party, they treated her Eevee starting to lose to Inkay like some horrible life and death situation, and of course rather than show her pull through or just remotely improvise, the plot just decided 'Oh well, they were brave, let's just give them the upper hand again' and of course Eevee evolved into a type advantage and won without trying again.

Something I feel was lost when Serena had that haircut and style change. Early Serena was a bumbler and could even be a bit of a whiny shallow jerk, but the story didn't glorify and hide those aspects and bend the universe to her will to make her look good. She probably had the story and cosmic physics more on her side than Ash (their one argument kind of suggested so). I could argue the earlier pre-haircut Serena was a healthier and more realistic choice for Ash in fact, especially since XY Ash's few flawed moments in front of her were during that period.

 

[Caseydia]

Serena just felt OP in performances. I think that's what we're trying to get at.

The problem with all of that is mostly due to time. They wasted way too many filler episodes fiddling with TR and random pokemon, that they could use her training. The next thing is that they waited a long time to give her a goal and when she did, she had to hurry up in order to get to the master class performance. And finally the performances themselves felt lackluster whenever someone lost like it was no big deal. I at least felt some sympathy while watching Contests but with this, it's just "oh nice performance. Sorry you lost. Try again next time" and be done with it.

 

[Navin]

Something I feel was lost when Serena had that haircut and style change. Early Serena was a bumbler and could even be a bit of a whiny shallow jerk, but the story didn't glorify and hide those aspects and bend the universe to her will to make her look good. She probably had the story and cosmic physics more on her side than Ash (their one argument kind of suggested so). I could argue the earlier pre-haircut Serena was a healthier and more realistic choice for Ash in fact, especially since XY Ash's few flawed moments in front of her were during that period.

The story certainly didn't portray those moments/aspects as major flaws either.

 

[DatsRight]

The story certainly didn't portray those moments/aspects as major flaws either.

No, but it was better than trying to FORCE her to look good, dumbing down the whole story just so she'd look like an untouchable winner. Pre-haircut Serena was at least allowed to look like a complete buffoon, which if anything made her feel far more likeable and human (much like the Ash debate).

Post haircut Serena comes off as dangerously empowered by the story, she never suffered loss or humility without some ridiculous excuse, she stopped even being victim to slapstick abuse anymore, supposedly the writers thought it would be too 'mean' to the sweet little girl they'd turned her into (compared to all the other Pokegirls that have faced harsh but necessary reality checks no matter how 'cute' they were). I could argue any real point of having more arguments since they'd likely have Serena win all of them and risk making her the Sally Acorn of the Pokemon world, the little creator's pet that skews the protagonist and the rest of the universe to befit her, despite probably being the most deluded and incompetent of the main cast in concept.

It's annoying how often potentially good characters can be ruined by the writers taking notice of that and ignoring genuine development in favour of shilling them horribly.

 

[A10theHero]

There was talk of the dub going on earlier, and I felt like saying a few things about it, if y'all don't mind.
First I'm pretty sure DuArt Film & Video is in charge of the the dubbing in English and not The Pokemon Company International.
And something you may find surprising is that, in spite of the valid criticisms of the dub, it still does pretty well, especially given its circumstances (CN isn't that kind to shows that aren't CN Originals :/).
Showbuzzdaily posts the Top 150 shows from major networks that air on Saturdays in the US and, for the ones where Pokemon was included, it often appeared in the Top 25. I don't think I have the ability to post links yet, but just look up 'showbuzzdaily' and it'll come up. Then it's just a matter of navigating the menus (The Sked > TV Ratings > Cable Ratings). Of the ones where Pokemon was included*, it had an average placement of 23.4, so roughly 24.
I personally feel it's pretty lackluster compared to the original version in Japanese, but it seems to be doing something right, regardless. Maybe the different voice acting style and music choice make it more appealing to the younger audience here in the US? I dunno, what do you guys think?

* = A lot of these articles seem to exclude Pokemon and Cartoon Network shows in general for some reason. I found data for 41 weeks that included Pokemon, but, outside of those articles, the rest don't include it. Some might say this means that Pokemon just didn't make the Top 150, but given the fact that it was regularly a Top 25 show when it was present, I find that doubtful. It's more likely that they just were unable to collect data for it when it was time for compiling data. Still, the most recent weeks' articles include it, so that means that Pokemon will probably continue to show up in the articles from now on.

 

[Caseydia]

No, but it was better than trying to FORCE her to look good, dumbing down the whole story just so she'd look like an untouchable winner. Pre-haircut Serena was at least allowed to look like a complete buffoon, which if anything made her feel far more likeable and human (much like the Ash debate).

Post haircut Serena comes off as dangerously empowered by the story, she never suffered loss or humility without some ridiculous excuse, she stopped even being victim to slapstick abuse anymore, supposedly the writers thought it would be too 'mean' to the sweet little girl they'd turned her into (compared to all the other Pokegirls that have faced harsh but necessary reality checks no matter how 'cute' they were). I could argue any real point of having more arguments since they'd likely have Serena win all of them and risk making her the Sally Acorn of the Pokemon world, the little creator's pet that skews the protagonist and the rest of the universe to befit her, despite probably being the most deluded and incompetent of the main cast in concept.

It's annoying how often potentially good characters can be ruined by the writers taking notice of that and ignoring genuine development in favour of shilling them horribly.

I get what you're saying. It's like Sakura from Naruto when she cut her hair. After that it just seemed like they stopped trying to get her more conflicts to work with for herself. Getting your hair cut is not real development, it's a choice between style and overall preference. Unless that character was totally obsessed with that hair that it drive her mad, then I saw no reason for any girl other than Yona from Yona of the Dawn to have done that.

 

[KungFuMaster]

The problem with all of that is mostly due to time. They wasted way too many filler episodes fiddling with TR and random pokemon, that they could use her training. The next thing is that they waited a long time to give her a goal and when she did, she had to hurry up in order to get to the master class performance. And finally the performances themselves felt lackluster whenever someone lost like it was no big deal. I at least felt some sympathy while watching Contests but with this, it's just "oh nice performance. Sorry you lost. Try again next time" and be done with it.

Yeah I also feel like the writers had not much time because in a Pokémon series you need to basically show ALL the Pokémons in this new generation (and some of the older ones) so probably they couldn't fit everyting in there and probably made it feel like she was OP. Or they decided they would make a series about someone who can never lose (because we hadn't had that in the past)

 

[Daniel31]

I'm sorry, but the haircut scene was very important to Serena's character (one of my favorites ever in the Anime) and I believe some people might have missed the whole point of it. I was always under the impression that it was quite a deal in Japanese culture because it was suppose to represent one's individual resolve to make a dramatic break with her own past. This is what we saw Serena do and and we saw how it played out. She made a mistake in regards to Fenniken's outfit in the first Tripokalon, lost, and then dealt with the failure on her own. Serena didn't ask or need help from her friends or her Mom. To me, that showed resilience and personal strength on her part. The only one's that were there, were her Pokemon.

To say that scene was not development or not a big deal, seems really ignorant imo. Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there for what it's worth....however, judging by the repetitive criticism I've seen for a long time, probably doesn't mean much at all.

 

[DatsRight]

Serena barely changed though, she barely grew up at all. Her strategies during the showcases stayed relatively the same, her battle competence never grew even as the villains got darker, and even her over idealised treatment of Ash she never grew up from because he just admitted in the end she was right and enabled her to expect him to be happy and admirable all the time again. It was a superficial representation of development that never happened. Oh sure, she ACTED more determined, but it glorification at best.

She only thing she got better at doing was learning to do what she wanted.

 

[DankOverlord]

Serena barely changed though, she barely grew up at all. Her strategies during the showcases stayed relatively the same, her battle competence never grew even as the villains got darker, and even her over idealised treatment of Ash she never grew up from because he just admitted in the end she was right and enabled her to expect him to be happy and admirable all the time again. It was a superficial representation of development that never happened. Oh sure, she ACTED more determined, but it glorification at best.

She at least developed in her insecurity since she became less shy about her feelings for Ash but otherwise I agree.
I'm sad that her whole character for both most of the fans and writers is defined by her crush and not her actions

 

[snorlax512]

She at least developed in her insecurity since she became less shy about her feelings for Ash but otherwise I agree.
I'm sad that her whole character for both most of the fans and writers is defined by her crush and not her actions

Sadly, that is probably the most interesting part of her character ever since the writers made her all nice and happy.

 

[DatsRight]

I actually feel really bad for Ash in hindsight, since after the Snowbelle incident it almost looks like he's forcing himself to always keep a smile and shrug things off. Earlier in XY Ash could at least openly express upset over things (he CRIED the first time Goodra left), during the league loss and Greninja leaving he just puts on a smile and acts like it's nothing, even if you can see the glassy pain and sorrow trapped inside his eyes.

I can seriously almost hate Serena for this, especially since often in these she's expressing how pleased she is Ash is acting like the perfect 'no bad emotions' role model she expects him to be. She successfully shamed Ash into always suppressing a soul of any kind.

At least come Sun/Moon, she loses and Ash is being himself again.

 

[DankOverlord]

I actually feel really bad for Ash in hindsight, since after the Snowbelle incident it almost looks like he's forcing himself to always keep a smile and shrug things off. Earlier in XY Ash could at least openly express upset over things (he CRIED the first time Goodra left), during the league loss and Greninja leaving he just puts on a smile and acts like it's nothing, even if you can see the glassy pain and sorrow trapped inside his eyes.

I can seriously almost hate Serena for this, especially since often in these she's expressing how pleased she is Ash is acting like the perfect 'no bad emotions' role model she expects him to be. She successfully shamed Ash into always suppressing a soul of any kind.

At least come Sun/Moon, she loses and Ash is being himself again.

And she will finally learn (hopefully) to properly figth and do things on her own.
But there's no need to demonize Serena's actions tho

 

[DatsRight]

It maybe wasn't the intent of the writers, but they seriously mangled the whole message and growth of the two.

One can only hope if Serena returns in Sun/Moon she will accept the new more emotive Ash.

You have the potential to fix Serena here, writers. Don't screw it up a second time.

 

[Soniman]

either way we dodged one ugly bullet

You poor fool

 

[PsychoLogical]

You poor fool

aged like milk. Even tho it took 6 years for it to happen :>

 

[UnovaMaster]

The worst moments of XYZ?

All of them

 

[GohMaster!]

Serena's personality changing on a dime in episode 1 the moment she saw Ash, and never went back.