Worst Moments of XY(&Z)

[AuraChannelerChris]

For all the negativity towards this series, I'm definitely going to say I enjoyed this series and for the most part, it hit more high notes than low. It was a series of enormous potential that didn't always deliver, and it had some apparent flaws, but it was evident an effort was being made.

I think you posted this on the wrong thread.

 

[dp045]

I think from the XYZ 38 onwards was the worst of the season, well the one-hour special Team Flare was good and such but the rest think it was the worst of the series in general.

 

[Caseydia]

I fully agree with you. Its like he didnt have the passion to win anymore

Have you ever thought he was just putting on a front to motivate everyone else? Maybe he does feel worse than we think inside.

Let's see:
(1). Goodra- They shouldn't have made it evolve too quickly. I liked Noibat but no. Just no.

(2). Performances and just everything about them- They made Contests look like digimon boss fights. I hope they never do anything so lazy and overly ridiculous like that again. I'm a girl and I like being girly but those performances turned me off. Also you lose by having you're pokemon slip? That's the dumbest most backhanded way to achieve anything.

(3). Alain- I like him. But I would like him more if he stayed in his own special. I also didn't care for him using Charizard which is becoming my most hated over used pokemon in the entire show.

(4). Serena- If you play as her counter part in the games and then watch her in the anime, it's like polar opposites. I didn't care for her crush on Ash, but the fact that with all of the stuff one can do in the XY games such as super training, sky battling, the battle maison, the battle chateau, battling in restaurants and rhydon racing, you mean to tell me performances were the only thing people thought of for her?

(5). Serena's pokemon- I don't like how her pokemon got shafted in certain areas. I didn't like Fennekin's attitude, I hardly noticed pancham, Eevee was okay but only three pokemon was not what I was expecting since XY has a lot of pokemon she can use from this generations as well as some past ones.

(6). The league- I didn't care for the loss. I don't watch pokemon for league wins. It's people spamming and using click bait to steer their own minds into thinking Ash was going to win. Just with Tobais, it doesn't matter who he faced, he would have still lost. I mean he lost to a clone of himself back in the day. Who's to say the same thing can't happen again? Let's say they bring Red over from the Pokémon special series to another league that Ash goes to, he ofcourse will lose. I just wished they didn't over hype the league like that.
(Still better than Unova's league though.)

(7). The league pacing- How rushed was this league huh? I mean you could have cut down some of that crappy filler earlier on in the series for more battles in the league to at least see the struggle.

(8). Clemont and Bonnie not doing anything. Just like with Serena, they could gave them something to do then just stand around and look cute.

(9). Dedenne's existence.

(10). The rivals- Man I hated these rivals which is saying a lot because BW did a horrible job with them as well. I hated Sawyer, I didn't care for the naruto ninja wannabe boy nor did I care for the games annoyingly over pushy so called friends, Shawna, Tierno and Trevor. They were boring and annoying.

(11). Team Rocket's existence- I don't need to say anything about them. I just wish Jessie would quit team rocket and go do performances since she's better at them than contests and does a better job than Serena as a whole.

(12). Greninja getting too much spotlight.

(13). No fairy or mega evolutionary pokemon for Ash other than Greninja.

- Serena taking forever to find something to do.

Oh yeah. I forgot to add this too.

4) Serena yelling at Ash for daring to be upset that he lost a gym battle/couldn't make Ash Greninja work - Rant incoming! This was the worst moment for me, bar none. "The Ash I know is always positive and never gives up!!!" So, being angry/upset and wanting time alone for, like, a few hours makes him suddenly "not Ash anymore?" Um, way to deny his perfectly legit feelings, Serena (especially considering that he's, you know, 10)! But that wasn't the bad part, oh no. The bad part was that her "pep talk" about how its absolutely not okay for him to have any negative feelings what-so-ever actually WORKED! Okay, so yes, maybe I'm projecting a bit, but I hate, hate, HATE when media for children spreads the message that its not okay to have "negative" feelings. Maybe the show didn't mean to imply this, but that was still the nasty implication that came across. I mean, did we learn nothing from Inside Out?

Thank you. Just thank you for mentioning this. This is why people may wonder why Ash doesn't show much emotion after a loss because one of his dumb friends might call him out on it. Geez, one day to be pissed out of 20 years in the series is not that much is it?

 

[DatsRight]

Have you ever thought he was just putting on a front to motivate everyone else? Maybe he does feel worse than we think inside.

That only really has worse implications however, since it implies that Serena ended up guilt slinging him into being a step ford smiler during the Snowbelle arc.

Seriously, while that argument was a step up in development, the wording had rather uneasy implications. "You're supposed to always represent all these positive traits or you're not really Ash!!!". While Serena at least admitted she wasn't being realistic, she ended up being enabled and treated as in the right in the end.

 

[satopi]

That only really has worse implications however, since it implies that Serena ended up guilt slinging him into being a step ford smiler during the Snowbelle arc.

Seriously, while that argument was a step up in development, the wording had rather uneasy implications. "You're supposed to always represent all these positive traits or you're not really Ash!!!". While Serena at least admitted she wasn't being realistic, she ended up being enabled and treated as in the right in the end.

I did get that feeling as well... but I do like the idea of his reaction to bad things happening to him to be a front. But there hasn't been implications that he is doing that. It seems more like he's happy for said person than him being sad or his own feelings since he's so self sacrificial in XY(&Z).

 

[DatsRight]

I did get that feeling as well... but I do like the idea of his reaction to bad things happening to him to be a front. But there hasn't been implications that he is doing that. It seems more like he's happy for said person than him being sad or his own feelings since he's so self sacrificial in XY(&Z).

I prefer that outcome. It at least makes Serena look FAR less potentially toxic a relationship. Besides it is Ash's recurring shtick in XY, getting the glory and spoils didn't seem his interest, he always prefers making others happy, just he never quite puts it altogether and thinks he's still supposed to be Pokemon Master (which also excuses how long he's failed at it despite all his experience). I suppose the Snowbelle arc could be excused as him being upset he let Greninja down as much as failing (that and he was still unsure about how unconditionally loyal Greninja actually was to him, as shown in contrast when he cheers up Greninja after the league for having the same feeling). He seems one of those "It's far more unforgivable and shameful when I do it" types.

 

[Forretress Fan]

Ash should've shed some tears like back in OS when he lost the league. He got second! He didn't even have a moment where his team comforted him or he gave his team a pep talk. :<

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

The lack of continuity from the past series is also one of the things that I disliked about XY(Z). I know there's that Piplup reference and a few other minor things, but I would have liked to see more references and Iris' freaking guest appearance instead of all the pointless unneeded fillers that the series had.

 

[mystic9899]

idk it's not like i hated them, but they really could've cut back on the amount of pointless fillers and show more of ash training for his gym battles and serena for her performances. also yeah i'm sad we didn't get an iris cameo. guess that's the end of that tradition.

 

[DankOverlord]

The lack of continuity from the past series is also one of the things that I disliked about XY(Z). I know there's that Piplup reference and a few other minor things, but I would have liked to see more references and Iris' freaking guest appearance instead of all the pointless unneeded fillers that the series had.

But that would be asking for quality writing from the XY(Z) staff which is as rare as a Legal Shiny Mythical Pokemon

 

[U.N. Owen]

Ash should've shed some tears like back in OS when he lost the league. He got second! He didn't even have a moment where his team comforted him or he gave his team a pep talk. :<

Any reaction but smiling would have been a better reaction. Seriously, how does one feel pain yet smiles after being physically drained and harmed?

 

[noakai]

Any reaction but smiling would have been a better reaction. Seriously, how does one feel pain yet smiles after being physically drained and harmed?

I'm okay with him not having a mental breakdown but I don't understand the complete lack of any real sadness at all. He was closer than he's ever been, literally a SINGLE step away, and they spent no time on his reaction at all. Ridiculous.

 

[Soniman]

Any frustration from Ash would've been the staff validating to us the fans that, yes it is frustrating that Ash never wins, and they would never do that so make him generically OK with everything instead..

The problem wasn't that Ash was okay with losing, it was that he barely had a emotional reaction at all, compare the reaction of his loss to how Sawyer reacted and you'll see the difference between Ash and a character that is actually allowed to show frustration. It's so infuriating to have the staff be so nonchalant about it and it felt like such a insult to Ash's character

 

[U.N. Owen]

The problem wasn't that Ash was okay with losing, it was that he barely had a emotional reaction at all, compare the reaction of his loss to how Sawyer reacted and you'll see the difference between Ash and a character that is actually allowed to show frustration. It's so infuriating to have the staff be so nonchalant about it and it felt like such a insult to Ash's character

I'm fine if his reaction was weaker than when he lost to Sawyer, but a weaker reaction does not equal to nonreaction. If I gave the writers some slack, this would be fine if they were new, but a good chunk have written since the OS. They should know about character reactions to stimuli.

 

[Aduro]

Any frustration from Ash would've been the staff validating to us the fans that, yes it is frustrating that Ash never wins, and they would never do that so make him generically OK with everything instead..

The problem wasn't that Ash was okay with losing, it was that he barely had a emotional reaction at all, compare the reaction of his loss to how Sawyer reacted and you'll see the difference between Ash and a character that is actually allowed to show frustration. It's so infuriating to have the staff be so nonchalant about it and it felt like such a insult to Ash's character

Sawyer seemed to have a more realistic and a more admirable way to deal with losses, every time he lost he learned a lot and took his own notes. That's why his growth rate was really fast once he got going. On the other hand Ash was hardly upset at all, he never feels failure in a useful way. He never questions himself and his methods as a trainer. I was way more empathetic after Ash's Indigo League loss and I was still reeling from how disappointing his battle with Ritchie was.

Then again, my real lower moment of XYZ was probably Ash's battle with Valerie, his strategy against trick room was to let his fletchinder get the stuffing kicked out of it until trick room faded, then he broke it with Hawlucha spamming physical force. It was a little rough to see Ash beat Grant with 3 of his pokemon to two of Grant's too, Ash is the underdog, he should be the one at a disadvantage not the one pitied by a gym leader.

 

[DatsRight]

Sawyer seemed to have a more realistic and a more admirable way to deal with losses, every time he lost he learned a lot and took his own notes. That's why his growth rate was really fast once he got going. On the other hand Ash was hardly upset at all, he never feels failure in a useful way. He never questions himself and his methods as a trainer. I was way more empathetic after Ash's Indigo League loss and I was still reeling from how disappointing his battle with Ritchie was.

Then again, my real lower moment of XYZ was probably Ash's battle with Valerie, his strategy against trick room was to let his fletchinder get the stuffing kicked out of it until trick room faded, then he broke it with Hawlucha spamming physical force. It was a little rough to see Ash beat Grant with 3 of his pokemon to two of Grant's too, Ash is the underdog, he should be the one at a disadvantage not the one pitied by a gym leader.

XY wasn't that good at playing the heroes as the underdogs, AT ALL. Some of their Pokemon maybe, but the trainers themselves kept getting leverage. Even times it looked like they were on the losing end, it ruined the setup by having some outside interference bring it back down to normal (eg. even the times Team Rocket challenged them, they still won easily because a Pokemon would evolve or another character would save them). Then there were the infamous showcases, for which Serena was an instant expert and could only lose through a mistake on stage by one of her team.

It would have been nice to have more times the twerps were made to work and struggle for something, show their full competence level, or at least more cases raw power couldn't solve everything. I wanted Ash to be resourceful for once and take what he had learned in the past, but he just conveniently landed loads of powerhouses. More above that, I wanted them to be in a situation I could actually feel sorry and root for them. I wanted them winning to be climatic and tense for a change. It took until her final spotlight episode for Serena to look like she was being forced to be clever in battle to get the upper hand (to the point I think that's the first time I've seen Braixen resisting a lot of damage), and even then she could really muster a curb stomp cushion considering the situation.

 

[satopi]

His only powerhouses really were Pikachu and Hawlucha. They showed themselves off.

 

[DatsRight]

His only powerhouses really were Pikachu and Hawlucha. They showed themselves off.

Ironically those were the two who worked the most for their position and were at least shown being used strategically in several battles. Their run wasn't tainted by a deus ex machina evolution either, they earned all of that power.

The others sort of shown how little Ash worked for their strength because they often sucked in situations where raw 'attack, attack, attack' didn't work. For all people complain about Noivern, it was at least writers' acceptance of the cheapness of it all.

 

[Soniman]

His only powerhouses really were Pikachu and Hawlucha. They showed themselves off.

Please tell me how Greninja is not a powrhouse according to its actual definition

 

[Navin]

Any frustration from Ash would've been the staff validating to us the fans that, yes it is frustrating that Ash never wins, and they would never do that so make him generically OK with everything instead..

The problem wasn't that Ash was okay with losing, it was that he barely had a emotional reaction at all, compare the reaction of his loss to how Sawyer reacted and you'll see the difference between Ash and a character that is actually allowed to show frustration. It's so infuriating to have the staff be so nonchalant about it and it felt like such a insult to Ash's character

His reaction was similar to AG Ash's against Tyson. His team gave the good fight, but the opponent was simply too powerful.