LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
It's pretty much described in the OP of this whole thread, so you can just click on page 1 and reread that haha
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Would Ash really lose the Kalos League?
- Thread starter Jeal
- Start date
Nah, they planned him to be his final opponent, not necessarily who would win, which strikes me more as an executive decision than one Yajima could have come up with himself. He just made the best with a plot that probably could have worked either way and each had their share of detractions, but at least Alain wasn't just a hollow husk without character.
mehmeh1
Not thinking twice!
Tbh even if XY was a good point for Ash to win the league in the grand scheme of things, his loss was better for XY's story of having him be the moral victor during the TF arc being the one to inspire Alain to get back up on his feet.
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
Yes, but at the same time it doesn't make sense for Lyssandre to seek the power of Ash and Greninja (even if Greninja was unique and Lyssandre never knew the Bond Phenomenon) if in the end Alain and Charizard who already worked for him without knowing it were stronger than Ash and Greninja.
This would have made much more sense if Ash had impressed Lyssandre for defeating the guy he met defeated 10 trainers with mega evolutions in a row, including an E4 member.
Twilight-Kun
Pokemon World Champion
Besides, everyone knows that fighting for and with the power of love beats fighting for yours and others' dreams, which is what Ash vs Alain boiled down to
Alain was fighting so Mairin could smile again
It's a miracle Ash managed to take out any of Alain's pokémon
Alain was fighting so Mairin could smile again
It's a miracle Ash managed to take out any of Alain's pokémon
Except Lysandre wasn't looking for strength when he sought out Ash and Ash-Greninja. He already believed Mega Evolution was nothing more than bloodthirsty strength, so he counted that has useless to him and is the exact reason he discarded someone like Alain who was twisted and manipulated by that pursuit for strength. He sought Ash-Greninja because, to him, it was proof of this endless possibility for people and Pokemon and the future they could create not through strength. He said as much. He didn't care about Ash's strength, otherwise he wouldn't have approached Ash before the finals. Which was the point; he outright ignored Alain and sought Ash instead.
Leonhart
Imagineer
mehmeh1 said:
In terms of morality in the anime as a whole, Satoshi's already at the top given how he's always portrayed as a hero, so I wasn't necessarily impressed by his deeds during the Flare-dan finale since he was just playing the hero part again, and to me it was one of the most predictable and boring parts of XY.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
That coming from the dude with severe social issues that were aaaaaaaaaaaaall in his head.Besides, everyone knows that fighting for and with the power of love beats fighting for yours and others' dreams, which is what Ash vs Alain boiled down to
Alain was fighting so Mairin could smile again
It's a miracle Ash managed to take out any of Alain's pokémon
Nothing about Lysandre made sense if you want to look into it more deeply. He was just like all the other villains in that the guy was trying to push his own selfish desires and hurt people in the process.
There's nothing about being a psychopath that makes sense to us normal people any way.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the original plan was for Ash to defeat Alain in the finals, but they opted to change the match's outcome after they decided the Sun/Moon series would have Ash attending school. Going from the Kalos League champion to an immature schoolboy would be a weird and awkward development, so they postponed his victory until the next series.
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Fernsday
Well-Known Member
I honestly don’t mind Ash losing the Kalos league and in hindsight wouldn’t really want him to win, the final clash just simply could’ve been done better(Maybe have Charizard on its knees and struggle to get up). Alain‘s Charizard just from straight up feats is stronger than Greninja. And the point of Ash losing was that even though Alain was stronger, he wasn’t the better person and both their arcs carry on to the Team Flare arc plus the fact that Alain still felt empty and was still questioning why he got so strong for despite winning adds to how he feels while on the other hand, Ash isn’t depressed like with his loss against Wulfric but rather content because he came out the battle giving it his all and knows that he’ll continue to grow and get stronger with each battle. If Ash won, his heroism in the TF arc wouldn’t have as much impact+His speech to Lysandre and choosing to believe in the Alain he “knows” plus Alain’s arc isn’t tied to Ash or revolves around him, it’s about righting his wrongs, the fact that Alain won yet still doesn’t feel satisfied with himself adds to it as mentioned prior imo plus his eventual breakdown. And later on Alain states in reference to Ash “You’ve always helped me, I just can’t outdo you” which just about sums it up