Honestly, there's just a lot in XY that shows how meticulously planned it was from start to finish that sometimes I find myself thinking either way: maybe Ash was always meant to win the League, or maybe he never was and was always meant to be the better trainer to Alain's stronger trainer, a showcase of what Alain could have been if he'd taken a less toxic path and hadn't pushed his friends aside. Knowing Yajima and how he tackled Power of Us, I can believe he truly meticulously crafted it that far that Ash was always meant to lose but now had a meaning inside the loss. Yajima had a tendency to deconstruct a lot of the tropes associated with the series.
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Would Ash really lose the Kalos League?
- Thread starter Jeal
- Start date
Sham
The Guardian of War
1). I’m not going to acknowledge this because read my posts I discussed Alain’s late arrival to the anime and the spacing between the specials and the regular series. Never said there wasn’t a possibility they wouldn’t meet so I don’t know where that’s coming from.
2) Marin mentioning that Ash assisted Garchomp isn’t an allusion to them meeting in fact it’s basically an Easter egg.
3) Again how is this proving Alain and Ash where going to meet?
4) Finally the opening is something that occurred externally out of the actual show. Openings are suppose to contain spoilers but the special themselves did very little to connect the dots and make a secure connection with the current anime.
Literally everything you mentioned still could of happened and the specials could of still been this independent thing that didn’t intertwine with the main series. They didn’t have to merge until the writers forciably did it in the last hour. That’s what I’m arguing; not the possibly of the writers not knowing they’d include Alain or not and idk where you got that from. The most of I’ve said was that his arrival that late into the series probably wasn’t planned throughly.
Shadao
Aim to be a Pokémon Master
If there is one thing I've learned regarding theories, it's that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Individually, they don't seem to prove anything but take them all together and you get a consistent pattern. Alain is part of the Pokémon Anime Universe thanks to Marin mentioning Ash in the first Mega Evolution special. And if that wasn't enough, the main series showcased Alain as Sycamore's assistant in a flashback. And if it is part of the same universe, chances are there'll be a crossover in some capacity whether it is Misty's Gyarados or Dawn's Quilava or Vincent/Jackson in the Johto League. That's the premise, the two journeys are in the same universe and there's Team Flare in the background. Inevitably, Ash will fight Team Flare just like he did with Team Plasma, Galactic, Magma, Aqua and of course, Rocket. And Lsyandre happens to be Alain's boss, also introduced in the first Mega Evolution special. You honestly think it didn't cross into the production team's mind that they would have Alain cross over with Ash the moment his character was conceived?
Then the opening outright teased that Alain was going to jump into the main series. Openings like these spoil certain characters and events all the time. It's how we knew in advance that Goomy was going to evolve quickly or that Ash got a Torterra of all Pokémon in DP or that Sawyer was going to be the underdog rival. Alain's segment happens to replace the Clemont rivalry with Ash, meaning that he's the next real rival for Ash to face. All in five months before the official announcement of XY&Z.
Additionally, there was Mairin's Mega Evolution Journal which aired as a post credit segment after every XY episode starting in XY042 in September 4, 2014. It's as if the main series wanted to remind everyone that the specials took place in the universe over and over again. This was unheard in any previous Pokémon special episode. The Legend of Thunder never had anything like that.
So when you add of these instances together, look at the timeline when these instances started to occur, you start to see one overarching narrative: The Mega Evolution Specials was going to cross over to the main anime. It's not a matter of if, it's matter of when.
There was no last minute changes, no executive meddling. Yajima wasn't lying when he said that Alain was always going to enter into the main series. The instances date back in 2013 and 2014 and 2015, meaning that Alain was never going to be some separate spin-off project.
Spider-Phoenix
#ChespinGang
My biggest regret this month is not voting on Shadao in the member awards. Sorry, bro.
Good thing it's not literally. Else, he'd not just be a lolicon but also a shotacon and a furry.
Kalos!Jenny was slacking on her job!
That's probably pretty much the case. Yajima has proven several times he likes the use of symbolism and metaphor to tell stories. See that the flowers on the final episodes meaning his gratitude towards the staff, the escalator representing "forced separation", Power of Us literally saying Pokémon can be appreciated and enjoyed by people of any age...
He's a bit similar to Takeshi Shudo in this regard so it doesn't surprise me Yuyama end up picking him to be his sucessor as the movies' director over anyone else.
Good thing it's not literally. Else, he'd not just be a lolicon but also a shotacon and a furry.
Kalos!Jenny was slacking on her job!
That's probably pretty much the case. Yajima has proven several times he likes the use of symbolism and metaphor to tell stories. See that the flowers on the final episodes meaning his gratitude towards the staff, the escalator representing "forced separation", Power of Us literally saying Pokémon can be appreciated and enjoyed by people of any age...
He's a bit similar to Takeshi Shudo in this regard so it doesn't surprise me Yuyama end up picking him to be his sucessor as the movies' director over anyone else.
Jeal
Well-Known Member
My problem with Alain was that the opening made it look like he was going to be a Team Flare soldier, battling against Ash and Co. But none of this happened. He was just a random guy for Ash. It was ridiculous how they made it look like he had done horrible things when the only really evil thing he did was to defeat Z2, and even that is not so evil. It was wasted potential.
I think this is interesting, and sort of ties into the overall topic. I've had a friend say that XY Ash fits an updated version of Shudo's vision of Ash, in that he's not necessarily the most important character but actively influences and changes the world around him, which is fitting of the Flat Character Arc he goes through in XY.
All of this just feels rather contrarian in saying that there was no hint they'd bring events that were happening concurrently together. Yajima outright said that Alain was kept in his specials because he felt they wouldn't be able to develop him as his own character separate from Ash if he was only forced to appear in Ash's story. But it became increasingly obvious that they were never independent stories and would always eventually interact.
Though it's quite obvious and no one should deny that a lot of pacing decisions in XYZ were made by the fact that SM blindsided them and forced them to finish the series in a year, which given patterns made sense from the past, as BW was the first and only gen since Johto to last 3 years, everything else was 4.
Though again, I don't think one of the most powerful trainers we've seen in the anime steamrolling Gyms over 7 episodes, which also includes what was likely a lengthy skipped trip to the Lumiose wetlands, was messy. And it's not like we've been told if he battled and earned badges before, because there are still 8 Gyms out there, at least, and we don't know anything about them. The only badge we know Alain earned was the Shalour badge, everything else is up in the air.
Sham
The Guardian of War
Even so Alain having all those specials lead to him joining the anime, meeting Ash and then joining the league simply because Ash suggested it. The fact you have to possibly throw out the possible theory that Alain didn't even earn those badges is telling. If the writing staff needed to give a character separate screen time because they're afraid it would disrupt the current main character's story; you as a writer would think that's bad writing correct? Countless shows have been able to develop character perfectly outside of the MC's bubble (Naruto being something that comes to mind albeit it was longer). Despite having those specials under his belt, Alain still ended up being one of the most awkward character introduced as a rival in the (main) series.
I don't view it as bad writing at all.
Alain is a character who was created and established. His story wasn't intertwined with Ash until the moment it was needed to further both of their characters and begin deconstructing one another. He had a journey that was separate from Ash because they wanted him to exist apart from Ash. Shows like Naruto are a thing unto themselves because they have a manga base. They don't require the main character to be in every episode in some capacity because it's on how the author wrote it. For Pokemon, it's obvious from how Ash is shoehorned in some SM episodes that Ash is required to be in every "main" episode. They didn't want to force Alain to need to develop solely as a part of Ash until it was necessary to do so.
And I don't see what's so awkward about it. He was on a journey to collect Mega Evolution energy to save Chespie, but his real toxic goal is getting stronger. He sees this kid with a strange Greninja that seems really strong. He wants to battle it because he thinks beating it will make him even stronger and stronger. He literally says as much during the League that defeating Ash will take him even higher. It's no different than Paul stalking Ash in the woods and asking him for a battle in the second episode. On top of the fact that I hesitate to call him a rival so much as a mere worthy opponent, I don't see what's awkward. Because if this is awkward, then every interaction in the series must be awkward.
AshxSatoshi
Ice Aurelia
The pot calling the kettle black
D
Deleted member 384931
Guest
I think wasnt Team Flare here, he would have won.
Power Up
...
Whatever you say buddy.
Edit: This is even funnier in retrospect considering the last thread made by this user lol
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AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Mega Evolution. X version. That's the whole explanation.
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Shadao
Aim to be a Pokémon Master
You could ask the same about Gladion's Lycanroc and Sivally. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
It's a tradition David and Goliath story.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
...Charizard is much bigger, and the tale was about David - the small guy - triumphing over Goliath. Plus, Silvally got shot down first than its 2 other teammates, and all Lycanroc forms are smaller than 10-year olds.
Shadao
Aim to be a Pokémon Master
You think I don't know about the story of David and Goliath? It's not mere size but also power. It's the underdog story. After all, Ash's Lycanroc has never beaten Gladion's Lycanroc before. And Silvally is the main ace that Gladion uses.
Mega Charizard X seems big and powerful but that makes the fight more exciting for Ash. He's faced the big leagues before with Dragonite, Blastoise, Regice and Darkrai. They seem invincible but they can fall. In fact, Mega Charizard X did fell to Mega Blastoise, meaning it is possible to defeat Mega Charizard X.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Yes.
But.
The size difference is basically the drawing point in David and Goliath, not power. Ignore the size and the story loses its entire purpose.