Would the Pokémon anime still be sucessful if Ash had been replaced after Kanto?

[Jeal]

So, there was a time when the Pokémon anime and the Digimon anime were fighting each other around the world for popularity. So the first Digimon season ended and the protagonists were replaced. Of course, the nostalfags hated it and the decline of Digimon started. Now, the Digimon anime is trying to regain popularity through nostalgia(Digimon Adventure Tri, Digimon reboot).

The fans do want Ash to be replaced, but did they? If Ash had won the Kanto League and Jimmy had took over, would the Pokémon anime still be sucessful? You can extend it to the franchise too. With the decline of the Pokémon anime, would the games still be as sucessful like now?

What do you guys think?

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Yes because the fad phase of the franchise was still going on during Johto.

 

[Red and Blue]

Probably. Not sure if it would have kept it's popularity without the series' mascot Pikachu though

 

[KirliaToon50]

Sure. Ash would been replaced with Jimmy in Johto but the real question is, who replaces Jimmy in hoenn Region and who replaces the hoenn character for Sinnoh Region?
And it would not effect Pokémon games regardless.

 

[Leonhart]

The writers would've found some way to keep a Pikachu in the cast regardless of who the main character was, so they anime would've likely continued being popular in the Jouto saga and beyond even if they'd gotten rid of Satoshi.

 

[SatoSereFan224888]

Hmm. That’s tough. Yes and no. However I feel Ash should have retired after Kalos. He reached his peak there. The Alola League felt hollow.

 

[Bortgreen]

People didn't really liked when Brock (first) left and even less when Misty did

So even if Ash being replaced is often talked about, not sure what moment they could do it

 

[pardusco]

Yes, because it's Pokemon. It's always going to be "successful" because the franchise is so huge. They can do whatever they want!

 

[KukuiFanatic501]

Im actually gonna say no, because im one of the types who personally dislikes the protagonist-swap in formula. It wasn't as successful or well received for series such as, say, Yu-Gi-Oh!

Ash may not get always get love or positive reception from the fanbase, but part of what makes his character relatable to the audience was his losing status quo and him having mega room for failure, making him a flawed character but one we can relate to. Him winning the Kanto League, on his first try at that, would've felt very Gary Stu-like. Especially when the OS often gets hard criticism of not taking battles seriously and Ash being handed several of his badges prior to Johto, so the league win wouldn't have felt as earned if he won his first go around and then got switched out.

More importantly, protagonist-swapping always tends to be a double edged sword, especially when there's a certain formula or rule to follow no matter what the new guy is (for example, in Pokemon's case, whether it's ash or someone else, the MC has to have a Pikachu as their partner for the latter being the franchise mascot). If the character isn't gonna be any different and will just be a reskinned Ash, you might as well just use what works and keep Ash. Plus, when quickly swapping out a protagonist that doesn't last long, the downside takes away potential growth for the character.

 

[beanDude]

Yes, that's like if before they came out, saying the Star Wars prequels wouldn't make money since they didn't have Luke Skywalker.

 

[Dragonsoldier77]

Yes, many series do it just fine.
Won’t change that kanto would be the cashcow regardless. Just means every series will have to stand on it’s own merit more.

 

[AznKei]

Yes, and he would most likely replaced by the game/manga protagonists and since that the latter are all starting their journeys from scratch, it makes their progress more believable than having Ash & Pikachu losing a battle despite their multiple journeys experience.

 

[Ryker101]

Yeah I think so, pokemon does that with the manga and games anyway. But I think Ash being there and growing each season made it more iconic. Each series felt connected and like it was progressing, at least from OS-DP

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

No way to tell. It depends on what they would have replaced him with. It probably would still be popular, there's just no way to tell how popular. I reckon one of the main reasons people want Ash replaced now is that there's very little left for his character to do and for him to grow as a character. Sure he can reach higher numbers in the rankings and stuff, but I'm talking character growth. And it starts to get a bit grating to have the weird never-aging thing in a series that is at least having some sense of continuity between its episodes.

 

[k6666]

Even though I really like ash and want his adventure continue forever , if he got replace in after OG Serier , the series still be popular sadly
Rather than journey , we could get the main character that have different struggle and meet the previous main character in anniversaries season and episode

well personally I’m glad he didn’t get replace

 

[KukuiFanatic501]

well personally I’m glad he didn’t get replace

This. Ash can be stale at times, but I do have the very unpopular opinion that Ash being kept around this long, and longer, makes him a great MC.

Im glad he didn't get the Yugioh/Digimon treatment when swapping protagonists or how even more recent series have been treated. Like, say, Beyblade Burst.

 

[Shadao]

Considering how the games' story gradually became simpler and shorter, plus with a 3-year runtime, swapping out Ash for another protagonist carries the risk of the new protagonist failing to make an impression on viewers. Out of all the companions that Ash has in the past 25 years, only two have considered to be Ash's equal as a protagonist.

Those being Dawn and Goh.

If they had their own anime series without Ash, I believe it would last as long as a typical anime series (3 years+) because the characters are well-defined enough to not need a crutch that is Ash.

 

[DatsRight]

This. Ash can be stale at times, but I do have the very unpopular opinion that Ash being kept around this long, and longer, makes him a great MC.

Im glad he didn't get the Yugioh/Digimon treatment when swapping protagonists or how even more recent series have been treated. Like, say, Beyblade Burst.

Same really. I feel like a recognisable face helps a brand really. Spin offs with a new cast are very seldom as iconic because fans attach themselves to one of the original characters. See Muppet projects without Kermit the Frog, or Railway Series books that don't have Thomas the Tank Engine, or that one Halloween movie that didn't have Michael Myers. They're very often merely cult classics, not unpopular, but not the ones that keep the sales and casual fanbase drawn in.

Not to say many works don't work better without a growing or changing cast, but often it works to have a recurring icon to ground it altogether.

Really I feel like the recent years have shown the writers appreciating Ash more as a mainstay instead of solely a typical shonen protagonist with the usual 'get stronger' arc. I like the more engimatic, kind of weird Ash of SM onwards who works off of a good supporting cast and can have agency besides pitching the franchise gimmick. I feel like many new protagonists are actually more vibrant with Ash around as a foil for them.

Many criticise the SM and JN cast, but I can't really knock their chemistries with Ash.

 

[KukuiFanatic501]

Same really. I feel like a recognisable face helps a brand really. Spin offs with a new cast are very seldom as iconic because fans attach themselves to one of the original characters. See Muppet projects without Kermit the Frog, or Railway Series books that don't have Thomas the Tank Engine, or that one Halloween movie that didn't have Michael Myers. They're very often merely cult classics, not unpopular, but not the ones that keep the sales and casual fanbase drawn in.

Not to say many works don't work better without a growing or changing cast, but often it works to have a recurring icon to ground it altogether.

Really I feel like the recent years have shown the writers appreciating Ash more as a mainstay instead of solely a typical shonen protagonist with the usual 'get stronger' arc. I like the more engimatic, kind of weird Ash of SM onwards who works off of a good supporting cast and can have agency besides pitching the franchise gimmick. I feel like many new protagonists are actually more vibrant with Ash around as a foil for them.

Many criticise the SM and JN cast, but I can't really knock their chemistries with Ash.

Agreeing completely with this, especially the latter point. It does feel like Ash’s character has more of a purpose as a main protag besides having to fulfill the role of finding some new battle challenge to overcome like it has been for the anime up to XY.

SM Ash for instance didn’t decide to stay in Alola specifically to beat the Island Challenge for instance, he stayed in the region to become more accustomed to Alolas culture and ways of life between the alolan people and their Pokémon, getting the full region’s experience outside of winning a battle title.

Or how in Journeys, Ash’s original plan was to just be a research fellow and learn more about Pokémon on a deeper level. He didn’t intend to do the PWC right from the start.

It’s new things like this that shows there’s more to Ash and his character. He doesn’t love Pokémon just because of battling or winning championships, but anything that has to do with Pokémon in general is something he wants to explore and experience. If anything, things like this shows Ash is willing to do more than just battle to be a true Pokémon Master, and the recent series consolidating that is something I like a lot.

 

[DatsRight]

Agreeing completely with this, especially the latter point. It does feel like Ash’s character has more of a purpose as a main protag besides having to fulfill the role of finding some new battle challenge to overcome like it has been for the anime up to XY.

SM Ash for instance didn’t decide to stay in Alola specifically to beat the Island Challenge for instance, he stayed in the region to become more accustomed to Alolas culture and ways of life between the alolan people and their Pokémon, getting the full region’s experience outside of winning a battle title.

Or how in Journeys, Ash’s original plan was to just be a research fellow and learn more about Pokémon on a deeper level. He didn’t intend to do the PWC right from the start.

It’s new things like this that shows there’s more to Ash and his character. He doesn’t love Pokémon just because of battling or winning championships, but anything that has to do with Pokémon in general is something he wants to explore and experience. If anything, things like this shows Ash is willing to do more than just battle to be a true Pokémon Master, and the recent series consolidating that is something I like a lot.

True, I've mentioned several times before that I think Ash has reached his end in terms of a proper character arc, but in hindsight, that is an arc within the conventional realms of the original show. They can still do a fair amount with him if they continue experimenting with new ideas and grounds for him to immerse in. I think a large reason people are sick of Ash is because of how much they ran that old formula into the ground with him, thus repeating the same steps with him over and over, only realising very late in that the league wasn't neccessarily the endgame for him and the show.

Really the same can be said for many characters. Team Rocket's old shtick has gotten stale too, but really there's still a TON of stuff they could do with those three if they were willing to lax the formula and stagnancy even just a little more with them. Meowth as a concept in particular has barely been delved into at all for what they can do with him, and very often it feels like a direct steadfast refusal to do so, believing his character will fall apart at the seams if not stuck in the same thing like Ash supposedly would have previously.