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Would you kindly post in this BioShock discussion thread?

Discussion in 'Other Video Game Discussion' started by Djura, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. Djura

    Djura 99% chance to hit

    Alright, so this thread is about the fantastic BioShock series. With the release of Infinite, I thought it would be appropriate to make a thread.

    I'll start off: I absolutely loved 1; the atmosphere, the themes, it's one of the reasons why video games should be considered an art form. 2, however, while good in its own right, didn't exactly hold up compared to 1.
     
  2. The Admiral

    The Admiral sans visage

    I can't really say for sure, because I didn't finish it, but I think that the worst part about BioShock 2 were the parts where you needed to defend the Little Sister while she harvested. Similarly, the worst part of the original BioShock was defending that one Little Sister. Then again, that seems to be a general theme for me especially in FPSes -- defending things doesn't usually work well. Unless it's yourself.

    BioShock's final boss was also a massive anticlimax.

    Do not own Infinite and probably will not for a while.
     
  3. Abstinence Pistols

    Abstinence Pistols Fahrvergnugen

    I loved Bioshock 1, and I'm probably going to pick up Infinite at some point, maybe when it goes on sale. The gameplay looks kind of generic and I've heard there's not a lot of moral choice, but the plot is surprisingly well done, albeit a little complicated at first, and Columbia as a city looks great.
     
  4. Night_Walker

    Night_Walker Well-Known Member

    Well since you said "Would you kindly." alright.

    I love the whole series.

    The way the settings are so well realised that they become characters in their own right, how the plots and themes actually makes people think (instead of just providing an excuse to start shooting things), the combat is a nice alteration to the standard FPS formula.


    Having finished Infinite I can tell you the gameplay is not generic - it's still BioShock to its core, only more polished. The plot is nothing short of fantastic, especially in the late-middle to closing act of the game where it just rolls on and gets heavier and heavier. Columbia is a truly fantastic setting, every bit as awesome as Rapture was.
     
  5. Djura

    Djura 99% chance to hit

    So I finished Infinite as well, and I agree that the world feels alive. But I think I lost sleep trying to wrap my head around the ending.

    The ending was... bizarre. After Elizabeth gains godlike powers and teleports herself, Booker, and Songbird to Rapture of all places, it goes on to explain that there's a bunch of different timelines.

    There's the Comstock/Booker timeline, where Booker's baptism makes him become Comstock, therefore creating Columbia, the drunk dad Booker timeline, in which Booker becomes a hopeless drunk and sells Elizabeth/Anna to the Luteces, and the game's timeline, aka the Luteces screw everything up. And all of these are erased by drowning Booker at the baptism, making my 12 hours all for naught.

    Then there's the cutscene right after the credits, where Booker's never offered the deal, is still miserable, but still has Elizabeth/Anna.

    Trying to explain it all in 25 minutes didn't seem like a good idea, but it's not by all means a bad ending. But for one to have at least some grasp of it, they'd have to understand what a multiverse is. It's not Mass Effect 3, I'll give it that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  6. Every time I forget why Bioshock is so critically acclaimed I boot it back up and remember pretty much by the moment I get the first Plasmid. It's just a wonderful experience.

    Playing through and taking my time with Infinite, I find it's among the more overall perfect games I've played. It executes systems and introducing them well, giving narrative reasoning for things happening, the level design is interesting and within the suspension of disbelief, it's just all an amazingly crafted game thus far. I'm really glad I can find the time to play it. Somehow.
     
  7. Night_Walker

    Night_Walker Well-Known Member

    I definitely lost sleep from wrapping my head around the stunning ending, both in terms of everything that was revealed and all the emotions it triggered, as well as having not been able to put it down once the end was in sight.
     
  8. Abstinence Pistols

    Abstinence Pistols Fahrvergnugen

    So I just spoiled the game's ending for myself (probably going to buy it after it goes on sale), and yeah, it's kind of weird. There's one enormous plothole I have to question, though:

    How can killing that one Booker kill every other Booker in all the other universes? Wouldn't you have to kill the original Comstock, since he was the first Booker technically?

    Hell, if this game goes by conventional multiverse theory then how is it possible to kill Booker completely at any point, since there will always be a parallel universe that exists where Booker did not die in that particular way and went on to become Comstock?
     
  9. Night_Walker

    Night_Walker Well-Known Member

    Oh dear, you won't get the full experience now :( Heh kinda weird is not how I'd put it - given how the very concepts involved can mess with the human mind never mind the story you've become invested in

    Not a plot hole, just highly complicated element because humans have great difficulty conceptualising.
    Infinite appears to favour a branching multi-verse or 'butterfly effect" set up, where points of decision branch into different realities.

    Here's the best I can do about why killing De Witt at the end collapses Columbia - based on my own presumptions as well as what I've read from others.
    When De Witt refused the baptism a parallel reality came into being where he he accepted and became Comstock, as well as others on either side of them differing in other subtle details (based on the multiple Columbias and Anna/Elizabeths).
    Hence if you go back in De Witt's personal time line to BEFORE he could make the choice and kill him then the event that 'creates' Comstock never happens - so he (Comstock) doesn't come into existence. To we get time travel and inter-dimensional travel and yeah... ouch for the poor old brain.

    How the events of the game cancel themselves out and result in the after credits cutscene is a bigger problem.
     
  10. Djura

    Djura 99% chance to hit

    Here's another part of the ending that kind of baffled me. How was Booker able to use the bathysphere system?

    It was explained in BioShock 1 that only Andrew Ryan and his family can only use the system since Rapture was on lockdown. In BioShock Infinite, however, Booker uses it to go up to the lighthouse, or door to another universe. So does this mean that Booker/Comstock=Jack/Andrew Ryan?

    But here's another thing: if the Columbia universe were set in Rapture's, then Booker would be too old to be Andrew Ryan. Furthermore, it was explained that Ryan was born in Russia in the expanded media, not the USA.

    Perhaps this variation of Rapture was influenced by the Luteces, and not actually Rapture.
     
  11. The Admiral

    The Admiral sans visage

    Well,
    if it's an alternate universe...

    Also, it's fully possible that Booker is related closely enough to Andrew Ryan that he satisfies the genetic requirement of the bathyspheres. Which means he'd probably be Andrew Ryan's uncle.

    Just guessing, though.
     
  12. Abstinence Pistols

    Abstinence Pistols Fahrvergnugen

    But that's my point.

    Wouldn't they have had to go back to the FIRST Comstock and then kill him BEFORE he became Comstock in order to prevent it all from happening, since after every time Comstock buys Anna from Booker it creates another alternate universe?

    I could be horrendously misunderstanding this.
     
  13. Night_Walker

    Night_Walker Well-Known Member

    I said it was complex.

    As I said it's a branching multi-verse, there is no 'first' Comstock - Comstock comes into existence in multiple alternate realities 'created' at the moment Booker is able to make that decision (and when later ones occur).
    You just have to go back through Booker's personal timeline to before that branching moment can occur and eliminate him - that ends all those alternate realities.

    My difficulty with it is that it causes another paradox - because the overall need to kill him ceases to exist thus allowing those events to happen and so on and so on.
     
  14. blaze boy

    blaze boy Aka SamuraiDon

    Well I am currently playing through Bioshock Infinite and I am loving it, although I have a habit of talking to Elizabeth as if I am actually Booker.
     
  15. Abstinence Pistols

    Abstinence Pistols Fahrvergnugen

    Why did they kill the Booker that we play as, then? Isn't he from a branching timeline, thus being the wrong one?

    Ah well, I probably won't understand this no matter how hard I try.
     
  16. Night_Walker

    Night_Walker Well-Known Member

    Well now, as the Lutece "twins" say it's a matter of perspective.

    The question is: "Do you have to kill each Booker or just one?"

    Remember there are multiple versions of Anna/Elizabeth present. Have they all travelled back along their Booker's timeline til there's only one (while we see from the PoV of the Booker we've played as - because he couldn't comprehend many multiple 'pasts'/playthroughs) or back in each Booker's to before that key moment?

    Personally I subscribe to the former, since we see how hard it is for the brain to comprehend these alternate universes.
     
  17. LokiTheGengar

    LokiTheGengar Sith Lord Victorious

    Just finished BSI- that last fight was just plain evil- and now can weigh in on the ending:

    So, we know that the game favors a tree-shaped multiverse theory where each possible decision branches off into different universes. Now, the reason killing Booker at the baptism works is because that will cut off Booker from ever making the choice to be baptized and thus become Zachary Hale Comstock, thus cutting off the branch where Columbia is created and the game takes place. The after-credits scene is along a timeline where Booker never went to the baptism in the first place.

    Of course, I also think the entire point is really just a revenge play by the Luteces to get back at Comstock for having them killed or whatever happened to them.

    Also, Booker is probably not in any way related to Andrew Ryan, and the whole Rapture deal is just part of the timey-wimey acid trip that is the ending.

    I do love one of Elizabeth's lines in the Sea of Doors, though:

    "There's always a man, and a city, and a lighthouse..." probably paraphrasing there, but the gist is probably tying together the Bioshock franchise.
     
  18. Djura

    Djura 99% chance to hit

    This has got to be the stupidest article on BioShock Infinite I've read.

    What controversy? And Ken Levine and his team are Marxists? Looks like someone's kinda mad.
     
  19. xDWarrior

    xDWarrior Well-Known Member

    I could never get into Bioshock. That said the trailers for Inifinite look pretty cool, but my little brother took the Xbox to college with him so I don't have any console to play it on anyway.
     
  20. LokiTheGengar

    LokiTheGengar Sith Lord Victorious

    No it's not, because you clearly did not read it. The article only sets up that argument only to knock it down. It's actually attacking people who think that and presents the game in a very good light.
     

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