XY Ash vs DP Ash Battling Skill!

[Genaller]

I figured I’d post this here since I’ve seen a certain member tout ‘win rates’ when arguing in favor of DP Ash.

Season 10:

- vs Paul best of 3 -> Draw 1
- vs Nando 1 vs 1 -> Win 1
- First vs Paul 1 vs 1 -> Loss 1
- vs Jessie(with Crogunk) 1 vs 1 -> Win 2
- First vs Roark 3 vs 3 -> Loss 2 3-1
- Second vs Roark 3 vs 3 -> Win 3 2-3
- First vs Champ Twins tag battle (with Dawn) -> Loss 3
- Second vs Champ Twins tag battle (with Dawn) -> Win 4
- vs Gardenia 2 vs 2 -> Loss 4 2-0
- First vs Dawn 1 vs 1 -> Loss 5 (it was really to Buizel who was acting on its own)
- vs Gardenia 3 vs 3 -> Win 5 2-3
- vs Dawn Double Battle -> Win 6
- vs Rhydon and Magmar trainers tag battle (with Paul) -> Win 7
- vs Zangoose and Metagross trainers tag battle (with Paul) -> Win 8
- vs Brock and Holly tag battle (with Paul) -> Win 9
- vs Dawn and Conway tag battle (with Paul) -> Win 10

Season 11:

- Second vs Dawn 1 vs 1 -> Loss 6
- vs Gardenia and James tag battle (with Dawn) -> Win 11
- vs Regi best of 3 -> Win 12
- vs Maylene 3 vs 3 -> Draw 2
- First vs Sho(Raichu trainer) 1 vs 1 -> Loss 7
- Second vs Sho 1 vs 1 -> Win 13
- vs restaurant owner and fiancee tag battle (with Brock) -> Win 14
- vs Crasher Wake 3 vs 3 -> Win 15 0-3
- First vs Fantina 3 vs 3 -> Loss 8 1-0 by forfeit with other 2 Pokémon asleep
- Second vs Paul 1 vs 1 -> Loss 9
- vs Barry 3 vs 3 -> Win 16 2-3
- Second vs Fantina 3 vs 3 -> Win 17 2-3

Note: Ash and Paul do have another best of 3 this season where Ash’s Gligar lost to Paul’s Gliscor and Ash’s Chimchar beat Paul’s Ursaring; however, the last battle was never fought because Chimchar has Blaze issues making the overall match inconclusive.

Season 12:

- vs Byron 3 vs 3 -> Win 18 2-3
- vs Candice 4 vs 4 -> Win 19 3-4
- vs Paul Lake Acuity full battle -> Loss 10 6-2
- vs random twinleaf battle tournament (tbt) trainer 1 vs 1 -> Win 20
- offscreen vs at least 1 more trainer in the tbt 1 vs 1 -> Win 21
- vs Barry tbt final 1 vs 1 -> Win 22
- vs Palmer 1 vs 1 -> Loss 11
- vs Lyra and Khoury tag battle (with Dawn) -> Win 23
- First vs Air Battle Master 1 vs 1 sky battle -> Loss 12
- Second vs Air Battle Master 1 vs 1 sky battle -> Loss 13
- vs Barry 1 vs 1 (Gible’s battle debut) -> Loss 14

Season 13:

- First vs Clayton 1 vs 1 -> Loss 15
- Second vs Clayton 1 vs 1 -> Win 24
- vs Flint 3 vs 3 -> Loss 16 3-0
- vs Bertha 1 vs 1 -> Loss 17
- vs Vokner 3 vs 3 -> Win 25 2-3
- vs Kenny 1 vs 1 -> Loss 18
- vs Nando SL 3 vs 3 -> Win 26 2-3
- vs Grumpig trainer SL 3 vs 3 -> Win 27
- vs Conway SL 3 vs 3 -> Win 28 2-3
- vs Paul SL full battle -> Win 29 5-6
- vs Tobias SL full battle -> Loss 19 6-2

For an overall record of 29-19-2. Oh yeah and he had a win in a 1 vs 1 against this Torterra trainer in movie 10, so including that it would be 30-19-2. XY Ash’s confirmed record on the other hand is 25-11-0.

Season 17:

- First vs Viola 2 vs 2 -> Loss 1 2-1
- Second vs Viola 2 vs 2 -> Win 1 1-2
- vs Penelope 1 vs 1 -> Loss 2
- vs Sanpei 1 vs 1 -> Loss 3
- vs Grant 3 vs 2 -> Win 2
- vs Korrina 1 vs 1 -> Loss 4
- First vs Moria 1 vs 1 -> Loss 5
- Second vs Moria 1 vs 1 -> Win 3
- vs Mirror Serena 1 vs 1 -> Win 4
- vs unknown pokémon summer camp team triple tag battle (with Serena and Clemont) -> Win 5
- vs Furfrou, Manectric and Fletchling trainers triple tag battle (with Serena and Clemont) -> Win 6
- vs Tierno, Trevor and Shauna triple tag battle (with Serena and Clemont) -> Win 7
- vs Korrina 3 vs 3 -> Win 8 2-3

Movie 17: vs Astrid best of 3 -> Loss 6

Season 18:

- vs Ramos 3 vs 3 -> Win 9 2-3
- vs Tierno double battle -> Win 10
- vs Clemont 3 vs 3 -> Win 11 2-3
- vs Valerie 2 vs 2 -> Win 12 1-2
- First vs Sawyer best of 3 -> Win 13
- vs Trevor 1 vs 1 -> Win 14
- vs Olympia double battle -> Win 15

Season 19:

- vs Miette and James tag battle (with Serena) -> Win 16
- Second vs Sawyer best of 3 -> Win 17
- First vs Alain 1 vs 1 -> Loss 7
- Second vs Alain 1 vs 1 -> Loss 8
- vs Scizor trainer 1 vs 1 -> Win 18
- vs Sawyer 3 vs 3 -> Loss 9 2-3
- First vs Wulfric 3 vs 3 -> Loss 10 1-3
- Second vs Wulfric 3 vs 3 -> Win 19 2-3
- vs Furfrou trainer 1 vs 1 -> Win 20
- vs Titus 3 vs 3 -> Win 21 (heavily implied 0-3)
- vs TOP 32 KL trainer 3 vs 3 -> Win 22
- vs TOP 16 KL League trainer 3 vs 3 -> Win 23
- vs Astrid KL 3 vs 3 -> Win 24
- vs Sawyer KL full battle -> Win 25 5-6
- vs Alain KL full battle -> Loss 11 6-5

 

[mehmeh1]

I figured I’d post this here since I’ve seen a certain member tout ‘win rates’ when arguing in favor of DP Ash.

Season 10:

- vs Paul best of 3 -> Draw 1
- vs Nando 1 vs 1 -> Win 1
- First vs Paul 1 vs 1 -> Loss 1
- vs Jessie(with Crogunk) 1 vs 1 -> Win 2
- First vs Roark 3 vs 3 -> Loss 2 3-1
- Second vs Roark 3 vs 3 -> Win 3 2-3
- First vs Champ Twins tag battle (with Dawn) -> Loss 3
- Second vs Champ Twins tag battle (with Dawn) -> Win 4
- vs Gardenia 2 vs 2 -> Loss 4 2-0
- First vs Dawn 1 vs 1 -> Loss 5 (it was really to Buizel who was acting on its own)
- vs Gardenia 3 vs 3 -> Win 5 2-3
- vs Dawn Double Battle -> Win 6
- vs Rhydon and Magmar trainers tag battle (with Paul) -> Win 7
- vs Zangoose and Metagross trainers tag battle (with Paul) -> Win 8
- vs Brock and Holly tag battle (with Paul) -> Win 9
- vs Dawn and Conway tag battle (with Paul) -> Win 10

Season 11:

- Second vs Dawn 1 vs 1 -> Loss 6
- vs Gardenia and James tag battle (with Dawn) -> Win 11
- vs Regi best of 3 -> Win 12
- vs Maylene 3 vs 3 -> Draw 2
- First vs Sho(Raichu trainer) 1 vs 1 -> Loss 7
- Second vs Sho 1 vs 1 -> Win 13
- vs restaurant owner and fiancee tag battle (with Brock) -> Win 14
- vs Crasher Wake 3 vs 3 -> Win 15 0-3
- First vs Fantina 3 vs 3 -> Loss 8 1-0 by forfeit with other 2 Pokémon asleep
- Second vs Paul 1 vs 1 -> Loss 9
- vs Barry 3 vs 3 -> Win 16 2-3
- Second vs Fantina 3 vs 3 -> Win 17 2-3

Note: Ash and Paul do have another best of 3 this season where Ash’s Gligar lost to Paul’s Gliscor and Ash’s Chimchar beat Paul’s Ursaring; however, the last battle was never fought because Chimchar has Blaze issues making the overall match inconclusive.

Season 12:

- vs Byron 3 vs 3 -> Win 18 2-3
- vs Candice 4 vs 4 -> Win 19 3-4
- vs Paul Lake Acuity full battle -> Loss 10 6-2
- vs random twinleaf battle tournament (tbt) trainer 1 vs 1 -> Win 20
- offscreen vs at least 1 more trainer in the tbt 1 vs 1 -> Win 21
- vs Barry tbt final 1 vs 1 -> Win 22
- vs Palmer 1 vs 1 -> Loss 11
- vs Lyra and Khoury tag battle (with Dawn) -> Win 23
- First vs Air Battle Master 1 vs 1 sky battle -> Loss 12
- Second vs Air Battle Master 1 vs 1 sky battle -> Loss 13
- vs Barry 1 vs 1 (Gible’s battle debut) -> Loss 14

Season 13:

- First vs Clayton 1 vs 1 -> Loss 15
- Second vs Clayton 1 vs 1 -> Win 24
- vs Flint 3 vs 3 -> Loss 16 3-0
- vs Bertha 1 vs 1 -> Loss 17
- vs Vokner 3 vs 3 -> Win 25 2-3
- vs Kenny 1 vs 1 -> Loss 18
- vs Nando SL 3 vs 3 -> Win 26 2-3
- vs Grumpig trainer SL 3 vs 3 -> Win 27
- vs Conway SL 3 vs 3 -> Win 28 2-3
- vs Paul SL full battle -> Win 29 5-6
- vs Tobias SL full battle -> Loss 19 6-2

For an overall record of 29-19-2. Oh yeah and he had a win in a 1 vs 1 against this Torterra trainer in movie 10, so including that it would be 30-19-2. XY Ash’s confirmed record on the other hand is 25-11-0.

Season 17:

- First vs Viola 2 vs 2 -> Loss 1 2-1
- Second vs Viola 2 vs 2 -> Win 1 1-2
- vs Penelope 1 vs 1 -> Loss 2
- vs Sanpei 1 vs 1 -> Loss 3
- vs Grant 3 vs 2 -> Win 2
- vs Korrina 1 vs 1 -> Loss 4
- First vs Moria 1 vs 1 -> Loss 5
- Second vs Moria 1 vs 1 -> Win 3
- vs Mirror Serena 1 vs 1 -> Win 4
- vs unknown pokémon summer camp team triple tag battle (with Serena and Clemont) -> Win 5
- vs Furfrou, Manectric and Fletchling trainers triple tag battle (with Serena and Clemont) -> Win 6
- vs Tierno, Trevor and Shauna triple tag battle (with Serena and Clemont) -> Win 7
- vs Korrina 3 vs 3 -> Win 8 2-3

Movie 17: vs Astrid best of 3 -> Loss 6

Season 18:

- vs Ramos 3 vs 3 -> Win 9 2-3
- vs Tierno double battle -> Win 10
- vs Clemont 3 vs 3 -> Win 11 2-3
- vs Valerie 2 vs 2 -> Win 12 1-2
- First vs Sawyer best of 3 -> Win 13
- vs Trevor 1 vs 1 -> Win 14
- vs Olympia double battle -> Win 15

Season 19:

- vs Miette and James tag battle (with Serena) -> Win 16
- Second vs Sawyer best of 3 -> Win 17
- First vs Alain 1 vs 1 -> Loss 7
- Second vs Alain 1 vs 1 -> Loss 8
- vs Scizor trainer 1 vs 1 -> Win 18
- vs Sawyer 3 vs 3 -> Loss 9 2-3
- First vs Wulfric 3 vs 3 -> Loss 10 1-3
- Second vs Wulfric 3 vs 3 -> Win 19 2-3
- vs Furfrou trainer 1 vs 1 -> Win 20
- vs Titus 3 vs 3 -> Win 21 (heavily implied 0-3)
- vs TOP 32 KL trainer 3 vs 3 -> Win 22
- vs TOP 16 KL League trainer 3 vs 3 -> Win 23
- vs Astrid KL 3 vs 3 -> Win 24
- vs Sawyer KL full battle -> Win 25 5-6
- vs Alain KL full battle -> Loss 11 6-5

This (not to mention that Kalos' top non-e4/champion trainers were stronger than Sinnoh's top non-e4/champion trainers), though didn't ash lose to tierno in the summer camp, or does that not count due to being a single stroke battle?

 

[Genaller]

This (not to mention that Kalos' top non-e4/champion trainers were stronger than Sinnoh's top non-e4/champion trainers), though didn't ash lose to tierno in the summer camp, or does that not count due to being a single stroke battle?

No pokémon was KOed hence that wasn’t counted as a proper battle.

 

[horrahforyou]

I hope Sword and Shield Ash is more clever, mature and serious than XY or even DP version of him. A great opportunity to be the league champion

 

[Doppelgänger]

DP Ash was quick to switch Pokemon, had to deal with entry hazards, developed and employed the counter shield, and had a primary rival who surpassed him in tactics.

None of those details featured into XY. The second most tactical battler in Kalos was Sawyer, who showed less skill and success than Conway. For all Clemont's intelligence he was just a brute force trainer in the end.

I personally think XY Ash was the most skilled trainer in Kalos, but he had weak Pokemon who only outperformed their abilities thanks to his skills.

 

[Genaller]

DP Ash was quick to switch Pokemon,

Switching =/= better. Heck Paul (a trainer whom you claim surpasses Ash in tactics) switched all of once during their Sinnoh League battle. Also there’s a difference between active switching and passive switching. Active switching is when you switch in order to get the most optimal matchup whereas passive switching is when you switch in order to halt your opponent’s battle momentum. A lot of DP Ash’s switching is the latter kind which frankly isn’t the most positive sign since it means he let his opponent get said battle momentum in the first place.

had to deal with entry hazards

Tyranitar’s Sandstorm could more or less be considered analogous to an entry hazard especially toxic spikes that then results in the pokémon taking periodic damage and XY Ash dealt with it in like 30 seconds whereas it took DP Ash over 8 and a 1/2 minutes to think of a solution to dealing with Toxic Spikes after it was set.

, developed and employed the counter shield,

Yeah it’s really funny how peiple overrate counter shield’s significance in DP Ash’s battle style or even as a means to accredit him as Ash’s most skilled iteration. First off let’s give some credit to the person who inspired Ash’s counter-shield: Dawn! Ash does get credit for generalizing Ambipom’s rotating swift, but let’s not act like he came up with the idea from scratch shall we.

2nd of all counter-shield is a move that can only be used in short bursts or else cracks start appearing in it that a good trainer like Fantina can exploit a.k.a. launch moves with good timing. This makes sense when you think about the stamina toll it would take on a pokémon having to continuously fire a move whilst spinning at high angular speed.

Finally Ash only teaches counter-shield to 3 pokémon: Pikachu, Buizel and Chimchar. All 3 of them use counter-shield against Fantina; however, Buizel and Chumchar also get used against Byron yet neither of them use counter-shield even once! Furthermore Chimchar gets used against Candice and does not use counter-shield; Infernape and Pikachu are used against Volkner yet neither use counter-shield in that battle. Even against Paul at the Sinnoh League only Buizel uses counter-shield while Pikachu and Infernape don’t. Pikachu also doesn’t use it against Tobias Finally from what we’re shown it seems that Ash never bothered teaching counter-shield to a single 1 of his reserves. Point is that counter-shield wasn’t all that prominent for Ash both in terms of number of pokémon he taught it to and frequency of use by said pokémon.

and had a primary rival who surpassed him in tactics.

I can agree to that for DP Ash. XY Ash on the other hand would be a completely different story.

None of those details featured into XY.

I’d love to see some reasonable support for this since I haven’t seen any of it in this post I’m quoting ^_^.

The second most tactical battler in Kalos was Sawyer, who showed less skill and success than Conway.

Nope Sawyer objectivity had way more tactical feats than Conway. Here are examples of tactics he used that go beyond mere attack spamming:

- (XYZ 13) Assessing Greninja to be more comfortable in close range battling, and so puts him out of his comfort zone by having Sceptile utilize more long range attacks (this was the reason why Sceptile had the upper hand against Greninja in XYZ 13 )

- (XYZ 26) Using Clawitzer’s Mega Launcher ability for both offense (Dragon Pulse) and recovery (Heal Pulse)

- (XYZ 33) Properly utilized a technical Pokémon like Aegeslash (Swords Dance + King’s Shield)

- (XYZ 33) Attract

- (XYZ 33) Timing Sceptile’s Mega Evolution to occur just as Raichu was about to strike with Thunder in order to capatilize on the boost granted by Lightningrod.

- (XYZ 34) Factoring in Hawlucha’s battle style concerning getting stronger (due to getting more pumped) by being able to tank foe attacks when selecting Slaking as a Lucha’s counter

- (XYZ 34) Reliable recovery in Slack Off

- (XYZ 34) Turning Hawlucha’s strength agaisnt him with Counter (now here’s the interesting part; based on Serena’s statement and I paraphrase “is he going to drag out the match again, so that he can end it with a OHK Counter” when referring to Talonflame vs Slaking, it seems as though Slaking’s Counter works like a meter where it absorbs all the damage Slaking took until then (including the damage it recovered) and dishes out twice the force of it in one go after which the meter resets, so in that sense it doesn’t work like a standard Counter (which is fine since the same move on different Pokémon has shown to work differently (e.g. Gogoat’s Leech Seed being temporary and immobilizing the opponent in vs Ramos, Stealth Rock in the Olivia GT, Noivern’s Supersonic not causing confusion and instead is portrayed as a mid lvl sound wave attack etc..)) but rather more like Bide with the only difference being that Bide is fired in a beam whilst Slaking’s Counter is fired in a punch

- (XYZ 34) Aqua Jet tracking for faster chasing

- (XYZ 34) Halting Talonflame’s momentum with Ice Beam

- (XYZ 34) Cutting down the forest because A) the forest was allowing Pikachu to move and evade more efficiently, and B) the scattered logs made the ground uneven making it more difficult for Pikachu to regain his footing when he falls from the sky

- (XYZ 35) Having Salamence tactically fire Incinerates at Noivern in order to lure him close enough to it for an easy clean hit with Dragon Tail

- (XYZ 35) Using Protect as a countermeasure for Echolocation

- (XYZ 35) Using Slurpuff’s nose to determine Goodra’s location in the smoke and hence launch a surprise attack

- (XYZ 35) His (Mega) Sceptile can freely control the trajectory of its Frenzy Plant to a very high degree with the added benefit of this Frenzy Plant not having any recharge time

Conway does have the edge in long term overarching strategy in the form of maneuvers like Trick Room field after confirming all of his opponent’s pokémon to be fast, but that doesn’t make up for the sheer difference in tactical skill at the individual battle lvl between him and Sawyer.

I personally think XY Ash was the most skilled trainer in Kalos,

Agreed and he’d also have been the most skilled trainer in Sinnoh, if he were there instead ^_^.

but he had weak Pokemon who only outperformed their abilities thanks to his skills.

Well he does explicitly say that ‘this is my best team’ when referring to them in XYZ 33, but sure mate; believe whatever you want.

 

[Lunanight]

DP Ash was quick to switch Pokemon, had to deal with entry hazards, developed and employed the counter shield, and had a primary rival who surpassed him in tactics.

None of those details featured into XY. The second most tactical battler in Kalos was Sawyer, who showed less skill and success than Conway. For all Clemont's intelligence he was just a brute force trainer in the end.

I personally think XY Ash was the most skilled trainer in Kalos, but he had weak Pokemon who only outperformed their abilities thanks to his skills.

DP Ash being quick to switch isn't a sign of skill, it just means that he's at such a disadvantage that he was forced to switch. You say he had to deal with entry hazards, but that ignores the fact he lost half his team to Drapion before he finally removed Toxic Spikes. Even then, he used the underground Flare Blitz to hit Ninjask, with the added effect of removing Toxic Spikes being a pretty irrelevant bonus. Infernape and Gliscor were already poisoned, and Pikachu being poisoned wouldn't change anything about it battle with Froslass. It just means Electivire might beat Pikachu without getting the Motor Drive boost, and so would lose to Infernape even easier and nothing would change.

As for Counter Shield, its overrated and only three of his Pokemon were taught it: Pikachu, Buizel, and Infernape, and I'm sure Infernape never used it after evolving into an Infernape (or even after evolving into Monferno). Pikachu last use of it was the Lake Acuity battle. Also, Paul only looked so good because he was using mostly reserve Pokemon against Ash's regional team. If DP Ash were using his own reserves and switched as often as he did in that battle, he would have swept Paul's Sinnoh League team 6-3, and would certainly beat Paul's strongest team 6-4.

Also, where did this meme come from that XY Ash had a weak team that only did well due to Ash's skill? Or even the common notion that Pikachu+Greninja hard-carried the team? Hawlucha is stronger than Gliscor, Talonflame is stonger than Torterra, Goodra is stronger than Buizel. The only Pokemon on the Kalos team that would lose 1v1 to a Pokemon on the Sinnoh team is Noivern, Ash's weakest Pokemon in XY who isn't that much below Staraptor anyway. Its a fact that XY Pikachu was significantly stronger than DP Pikachu and that Base Greninja was slightly stronger than Blaze Infernape. Even ignoring Ash-Greninja, the XY Team was overall stronger than the DP Team. The XY Team wasn't even his best team: Ash's Hoenn Team during the Battle Frontier was much better overall than the XY Team (not counting Ash-Greninja).

Switching =/= better. Heck Paul (a trainer whom you claim surpasses Ash in tactics) switched all of once during their Sinnoh League battle. Also there’s a difference between active switching and passive switching. Active switching is when you switch in order to get the most optimal matchup whereas passive switching is when you switch in order to halt your opponent’s battle momentum. A lot of DP Ash’s switching is the former kind which frankly isn’t the most positive sign since it means he let his opponent get said battle momentum in the first place.

This. I wish more people realised that switching =/= better, since basically the only people think DP Ash or Paul are even comparable to XY Ash is because "muh switching". Paul also did a lot of pointless switching where he just switched Pokemon for no real reason, even when said switching doesn't give him any real advantage at all. This is mainly in his battle with Barry, where he switched out Magmortar for Ursaring and then recalled Ursaring for Electivire. Ursaring was useless since Electivire would have swept Barry's team 3-0, so Paul didn't even need to use Ursaring in the battle at all. Brandon also did then when he swept Paul 6-0 since Regirock would have swept Paul's team in that battle 6-0, and Brandon only needed 1 of the Regi Trio to get a 6-0 win in that battle anyway.

Conway does have the edge in long term overarching strategy in the form of maneuvers like Trick Room field after confirming all of his opponent’s pokémon to be fast, but that doesn’t make up for the sheer difference in tactical skill at the individual battle lvl between him and Sawyer.

I'd argue Conway doesn't even have the edge in that IMO, since Conway only used Trick Room after seeing Noctowl, Donphan, and Gible, who certainly aren't as fast as most of Ash's other Pokemon. They aren't slow, but they aren't super fast that they would be massively punished by Trick Room (like Infernape or Pikachu). Conway was a weak, one-note trainer who almost got swept 3-0 by some of Ash's lower-tier Pokemon. Conway couldn't adapt to his opponent's like other skilled trainers, since his one and only strategy was Trick Room. I just feel people overrate Conway because he looks smarter than he actually is, given that he needed to counter-team Ash to avoid getting swept 3-0... and Conway still lost anyway.

Conway was massively overrated and gives the illusion of being strategic without actually being so. Skill-wise, Conway is a one-trick pony with Trick Room who would get swept 3-0 by any half-decent team otherwise. I'd argue Conway was actually the weakest of Ash's Sinnoh rivals, since I'd think that Paul>Barry>Nando>Conway in terms of actual trainer skill. Even Barry was more strategic than Conway since he used Spikes against Paul to try and counter Paul's switching and reflected Ursaring's Focus Blast against it. As for Nando>Conway, its because Nando did much better against a stronger team of Ash's than Conway did against a weaker team, and Nando was never at risk of getting swept 3-0 without Trick Room like Conway was.

 

[Doppelgänger]

DP Ash being quick to switch isn't a sign of skill, it just means that he's at such a disadvantage that he was forced to switch.

But that doesn't happen anymore. All of the examples of switches I can think of in Unova onward were either due to KO, or because Ash wanted to give the Pokemon a break, not because the Pokemon was struggling to do anything.

As for Counter Shield, its overrated and only three of his Pokemon were taught it: Pikachu, Buizel, and Infernape, and I'm sure Infernape never used it after evolving into an Infernape (or even after evolving into Monferno). Pikachu last use of it was the Lake Acuity battle. Also, Paul only looked so good because he was using mostly reserve Pokemon against Ash's regional team. If DP Ash were using his own reserves and switched as often as he did in that battle, he would have swept Paul's Sinnoh League team 6-3, and would certainly beat Paul's strongest team 6-4.

Paul's Acuity team was much stronger than his league team. Torterra is his most powerful Pokemon, and Honchkrow had previously defeated a Dragonite. Ash basically used the same team in the league as during Acuity, and he still barely came out on top despite the absence of these two powerhouse Pokemon.

I did a BST analysis a few days ago and Acuity Paul is right below Kalos Ash in raw species strength, assuming Ash-Greninja and Goodra. And that's with an Electabuzz, not even an Electivire.

Also, Paul basically sacrificed Aggron and Gastrodon to scout Ash's moves. He was basically playing with a 2 Pokemon handicap from the beginning

 

[Genaller]

The XY Team wasn't even his best team: Ash's Hoenn Team during the Battle Frontier was much better overall than the XY Team (not counting Ash-Greninja).

I presume this is also discounting that Alain Peakachu would be a good deal above Brandon Peakachu; in that case sure. I can agree the 5 Hoenn pokémon > 5 Kalos pokémon when not factoring in A-G. This is how I see them relatively:

Z-: Alain Peakachu
S: Brandon Peakachu
S-: Sceptile, Greninja
A-: Torkoal
B+: Swellow, Hawlucha
B: Glalie
B-: Talonflame, Goodra
C+: Corphish
C: Noivern

This is mainly in his battle with Barry, where he switched out Magmortar for Ursaring and then recalled Ursaring for Electivire. Ursaring was useless since Electivire would have swept Barry's team 3-0, so Paul didn't even need to use Ursaring in the battle at all.

I was fine with Magmortar for Ursaring since it was at a type disadvantage and Barry hadn’t revealed his last pokémon yet, but yeah there was no point in switching Ursaring for Electivire other than to get a 3-0 win in which case yeah Electivire could have easily done that on his own in hindsight.

I'd argue Conway doesn't even have the edge in that IMO, since Conway only used Trick Room after seeing Noctowl, Donphan, and Gible, who certainly aren't as fast as most of Ash's other Pokemon. They aren't slow, but they aren't super fast that they would be massively punished by Trick Room (like Infernape or Pikachu). Conway was a weak, one-note trainer who almost got swept 3-0 by some of Ash's lower-tier Pokemon. Conway couldn't adapt to his opponent's like other skilled trainers, since his one and only strategy was Trick Room.

True lol though Gible was pretty good and more or less soloed Shuckle + Dusknoir and only got tripped up by a Lick hax gimmick that was first used by Jessie all the way in Kanto. The only other maneuver Conway used resembling a tactic was Power Trick.

I just feel people overrate Conway because he looks smarter than he actually is, given that he needed to counter-team Ash to avoid getting swept 3-0... and Conway still lost anyway.

Apparently that team was meant to counter Infernape since Conway thought Ash would use a pokémon that just learnt a new move; that honestly makes this even more hilariously stupid considering Infernape would have utterly slaughtered Shuckle and Lickilicky, and only may have had some issue with Dusknoir due to the massive speed deficit thanks to Trick Room.

Conway was massively overrated and gives the illusion of being strategic without actually being so. Skill-wise, Conway is a one-trick pony with Trick Room who would get swept 3-0 by any half-decent team otherwise. I'd argue Conway was actually the weakest of Ash's Sinnoh rivals, since I'd think that Paul>Barry>Nando>Conway in terms of actual trainer skill. Even Barry was more strategic than Conway since he used Spikes against Paul to try and counter Paul's switching and reflected Ursaring's Focus Blast against it. As for Nando>Conway, its because Nando did much better against a stronger team of Ash's than Conway did against a weaker team, and Nando was never at risk of getting swept 3-0 without Trick Room like Conway was.

I do agree with the order in general, but Barry has done some questionable things like trying to have Empoleon dodge a decisively faster pokémon in Electivire which was bound to fail and hence only waste stamina rather than focusing on bracing and counter-attacking. In comparison I give Tierno a lot more credit since he never tried turning Blastoise vs Sceptile into a speed match since he knew there’d be no point (even if Blastoise ended up getting overwhelmed in attack power as well).

But that doesn't happen anymore. All of the examples of switches I can think of in Unova onward were either due to KO, or because Ash wanted to give the Pokemon a break, not because the Pokemon was struggling to do anything.

Counter example: Ash switches Goodra out in Kalos GYM 5 due to him struggling with Heliolisk due to the massive speed deficit.

Paul's Acuity team was much stronger than his league team.

Lol no.

Torterra is his most powerful Pokemon, and Honchkrow had previously defeated a Dragonite.

A Dragonite owned by a local pokeringer champion... wow I’m so impressed. Interesting how that Dragonite got OHked yet flipping Staravia/Staraptor (Ash’s weakest Sinnoh pokémon by the SL) was able to tank several hits and Staraptor was even able to inflict major damage on Honchkrow with its own attacks (Brock says so when Staraptor hits with Close Combat). I don’t care if that was a pokeringer match, there’s only so much better Honchkrow can be than Staraptor yet still have such a difficult time against it.

Ash basically used the same team in the league as during Acuity, and he still barely came out on top despite the absence of these two powerhouse Pokemon.

Sure Paul didn’t use Torterra and Ursaring, though in Ursaring’s case it’s explanable since it could just be resting after battling Barry’s Hitmonlee, but Ash also didn’t use Charizard, Sceptile and Snorlax which would have completely changed how that battle went.

I did a BST analysis a few days ago and Acuity Paul is right below Kalos Ash in raw species strength, assuming Ash-Greninja and Goodra. And that's with an Electabuzz, not even an Electivire.

BSTs don’t mean jack in the anime next to feats and scaling. This is how I’d tier Paul’s Pokémon from those teams:

S: Motordrive Electivire
S-: Torterra, Electivire
A: Drapion
A-: Gut Ursaring
B+: Ursaring, Froslass, Ninjask, Electobuzz
B: Magmortar, Aggron
B-: Honchkrow (being real generous here)
C+: Gastrodon
C-: Weavile

Also, Paul basically sacrificed Aggron and Gastrodon to scout Ash's moves. He was basically playing with a 2 Pokemon handicap from the beginning

I mean... those 2 still resulted in Pikachu, Infernape and Staraptor taking damage before they fell, so it’s not quite a 2 pokémon handicap.