U.N. Owen
In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
“Story decisions I don’t like” somehow equals “They are ruining the characters and anime I love because the current staff hates the fans and show!”
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XYZ effect on fans and writers. How do you feel?
- Thread starter DarkusHeracross
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The Drawn Sword
Well-Known Member
What else do you call Pikachu hurting Ash? What else do you call Mitolic hitting Ash in his “pokeballs”
Tomiyasu hates Ash. He hates us. He hates XY fans. He disrespected us by destroying Alain and Diantha.
I think he retconned Serena’s crush on Ash. The crush isn’t mentioned when Serena returned. They did this because they know the fans will go ballistic.
U.N. Owen
In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
I call it cheap comedy and not a sign of Tomiyasu hating Ash. It‘s not like Bendis who writes monologues on how he hates a character in the book he’s writing and then writes a different one on Twitter.
You are a sad, strange little man.
Hello, conspiracy theories, I see we have an old-new face in the room
The Drawn Sword
Well-Known Member
Tomiyasu ruined Ash forever and propped up a Pokémon Thief and Droopy Breast Girl.
janejane6178
Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Ok so u were sarcastic after all
DarkusHeracross
Active Member
Im glad i was not the only one that kinda disliked that part. It kinda got redudant after a while just watching Lucario go beserk was and Korrina screaming at it was kinda lame.
One, there is no ture Ash lol, every Ash. In terms of what Ash was supposued to be, the 10 year old Japanese Boy trying to be a Pokemon Master that has to be Indigo League Ash. Best Ash as a Pokemon Trainer and true Master? Yes, XYZ thats XYZ as no doubt.
Pokegirl Fan~
Liko>>>>>Ash
What made it even worse was the placement and amount of episodes in that arc when they had main characters that should have been their priorities in screen time and focus, particularly Serena because she had a long stretch of nothing significant happening with her during that time. I don't see the need giving 5 episodes to a character that wasn't apart of the main cast even if it was for Lucario shilling.
Truthfully I can't hate the first season of XY since it was at least still trying with character interactions and HOW the formula was set about. The dynamics and synergy were more colourful, they were still making fun of the old cliches a bit, Ash wasn't totally above it all, most of the Pokemon actually had fun personalities and chemistries, Clemont was more involved, Team Rocket were still a bit competent and mixed up their plans and roles more often, etc.
I think if the later half of the series had actually kept up that same amount of vibrancy to the whole dynamic instead of just drying it all up in favour of banking everything on the main arcs and their hype bait, I'd have a more favourable opinion of it.
I think if the later half of the series had actually kept up that same amount of vibrancy to the whole dynamic instead of just drying it all up in favour of banking everything on the main arcs and their hype bait, I'd have a more favourable opinion of it.
The Drawn Sword
Well-Known Member
Do you disagree that Goh is a thief and a villain? If you don’t, you are part of the problem.
Trillion
Well-Known Member
xy is my second favorite series after dp
overall best battles of any series. the FIRST gym battle: involving two unevolved, one mid-stage, and only ONE fully evolved pokemon- looks like it could be a masters 8 match
the only thing that disappointed me was greninja getting released to go work for Zygarde's Lawncare Service, LLC
i wasn't bothered by the alain battle. yeah ash lost.. but that was a top five battle of the entire series
people are reaching for the stars saying the writers have some sort of vendetta against xy just cuz alain and diantha lost to leon. it's laughable
people acting like ash was just some emotionless serious person in xy is also laughable. outside of battle he was still the same buffoon he's always been lol
overall best battles of any series. the FIRST gym battle: involving two unevolved, one mid-stage, and only ONE fully evolved pokemon- looks like it could be a masters 8 match
the only thing that disappointed me was greninja getting released to go work for Zygarde's Lawncare Service, LLC
i wasn't bothered by the alain battle. yeah ash lost.. but that was a top five battle of the entire series
people are reaching for the stars saying the writers have some sort of vendetta against xy just cuz alain and diantha lost to leon. it's laughable
people acting like ash was just some emotionless serious person in xy is also laughable. outside of battle he was still the same buffoon he's always been lol
MetaMantis
Offline until Ash vs Leon
I question how people can even think he's a thief when he's done nothing of the sort.
cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
As someone who loves XY, I hated that Ash-Greninja lost to MCX. They were building up that Ash-Greninja was a special Pokemon that was more powerful than any Ash Pokemon ever with a special transformation, and yet it’s feats were super underwhelming. There was so much buildup to Ash winning the Kalos League that all went down the drain. However what caused me to be turned off by Pokemon was the tone and art style shift from XY to SM.
I’ll write more later
I’ll write more later
The Drawn Sword
Well-Known Member
He catches pokemon without permission form the pokemon. He’s disrupting the national order of nature by catching legendaries. He is a thief
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Okay people, let's try our best not to turn this into another XY vs SM fan war okay? Don't use this thread as a free for all buffet for bashing XY and the same goes with SM. I mean I hope that's what every user does except for those whose names rhyme with Bane and Brisket
Anyway, into the topic of this thread
XYZ, despite your opinion on it, certainly had a MAJOR effect on the fans and writers and had rippling effects. It certainly was controversial in the end, a huge majority HATED Ash losing in the Kalos League and many were displeased by Greninja being released. However it's also true that a majority loved Serena kissing Ash and the Team Flare arc, atleast during those moments, until after more criticism towards it came into the picture, specifically Serena's dialogues during the elevator scene
I do think the Kalos league backlash was a pretty significant thing that the writers took note of. Heck if I'm not wrong the preview for next episode got review bombed so hard they turned off likes and dislikes.
While Ash's alola league win happening was more due to the structure of the region itself and the game story, there is no denying that the Kalos league backlash also probably influenced the decision as well as the decision to respect Ash's strength as a trainer and allow him major milestones, which is why we follow up with JN's PWC rather than the Galar league
Now as to the fans perspective of it, XYZ deserves MAJOR CREDIT for having a hugely invested fanbase at the time it was airing, regardless of your opinions on it you cannot deny the hype was at an all time high during the days of XYZ, while I believe the major credit goes to the artstyle and stellar battle animation, you had old and casuals alike invested. With the marketing taking advantage of the hype and baiting them, it was no surprise the backlash would be huge when things didn't go their way. XY despite its ambitions never quite felt confident enough to take the journey to the position it needed to, even if it broke anime's molds and structures. To then be unsatisfied with how it ended AND seeing the SM's change in tone and style, toxicity ensued, seeping into when SM aired and it getting massive hatred simply for not being XY, something that sadly some people still do rather than look at it for what it is on its own
Now for the writers perspective on it, I believe XYZ and the whole process of it, the production and the reception, is what finally convinced them to break the mold, the old structure. I'd say it has more to do with how taxing it was to have a show with the level of XY's production, especially with the 3D camera. I also imagine the writers felt extremely tired of the old lethargic formula and repeating it again next series would be suicide because no one would care anymore, they needed to reinvent to make people believe again this anime will ever go forward with Ash again. One of the major reasons for the backlash against the Kalos league was the fear of Ash's stagnancy, especially when they assumed next series is a reset again and Ash is a rookie again
When it comes to JN, no the "crew hates XY" conspiracy theorists are dumbasses. But i do feel the writers of JN were very careful when it came to XY, for them it was no doubt a special series they had to carefully maneuver around, esp BECAUSE the style of Ash in SM and JN doesn't really match with the style of Ash in XY. And that is why I think amourshipping (which still had significant hints mind you) was kept to a minimum and not followed up on, as well as Ash-Greninja, because that is something for the XYZ characterisation of Ash specifically and it's design rather than JN's take. So they didn't want to piss on the old series or change their direction, so they decided to sidestep it. Why not atleast include AG in the XYZ flashbacks? Beats me, it was a dumb decision not to but I doubt arises from them wanting to retcon it happening. Same with Alain probably, they wanted to use him because he's a popular character the writers also like and thought would be a cool 8th member wildcard but was so massively underused because they wanted to sidestep around the whole Ash-Greninja stuff, which was a Crux of Ash and Alains relationship and not wanting to explore that means Alain doesn't really get significant time
All in all, I do believe XY's popularity and "fanbase" will always be at odds with the direction the show went as a result of XY. For better or worse. But I do believe after JN it doesn't really need to be a sore point unless they make Ash end up with a different girl or ever do something similar to JN again, of course for the fanbase, they'll never stop screaming for more that they wished XY delivered
Anyway, into the topic of this thread
XYZ, despite your opinion on it, certainly had a MAJOR effect on the fans and writers and had rippling effects. It certainly was controversial in the end, a huge majority HATED Ash losing in the Kalos League and many were displeased by Greninja being released. However it's also true that a majority loved Serena kissing Ash and the Team Flare arc, atleast during those moments, until after more criticism towards it came into the picture, specifically Serena's dialogues during the elevator scene
I do think the Kalos league backlash was a pretty significant thing that the writers took note of. Heck if I'm not wrong the preview for next episode got review bombed so hard they turned off likes and dislikes.
While Ash's alola league win happening was more due to the structure of the region itself and the game story, there is no denying that the Kalos league backlash also probably influenced the decision as well as the decision to respect Ash's strength as a trainer and allow him major milestones, which is why we follow up with JN's PWC rather than the Galar league
Now as to the fans perspective of it, XYZ deserves MAJOR CREDIT for having a hugely invested fanbase at the time it was airing, regardless of your opinions on it you cannot deny the hype was at an all time high during the days of XYZ, while I believe the major credit goes to the artstyle and stellar battle animation, you had old and casuals alike invested. With the marketing taking advantage of the hype and baiting them, it was no surprise the backlash would be huge when things didn't go their way. XY despite its ambitions never quite felt confident enough to take the journey to the position it needed to, even if it broke anime's molds and structures. To then be unsatisfied with how it ended AND seeing the SM's change in tone and style, toxicity ensued, seeping into when SM aired and it getting massive hatred simply for not being XY, something that sadly some people still do rather than look at it for what it is on its own
Now for the writers perspective on it, I believe XYZ and the whole process of it, the production and the reception, is what finally convinced them to break the mold, the old structure. I'd say it has more to do with how taxing it was to have a show with the level of XY's production, especially with the 3D camera. I also imagine the writers felt extremely tired of the old lethargic formula and repeating it again next series would be suicide because no one would care anymore, they needed to reinvent to make people believe again this anime will ever go forward with Ash again. One of the major reasons for the backlash against the Kalos league was the fear of Ash's stagnancy, especially when they assumed next series is a reset again and Ash is a rookie again
When it comes to JN, no the "crew hates XY" conspiracy theorists are dumbasses. But i do feel the writers of JN were very careful when it came to XY, for them it was no doubt a special series they had to carefully maneuver around, esp BECAUSE the style of Ash in SM and JN doesn't really match with the style of Ash in XY. And that is why I think amourshipping (which still had significant hints mind you) was kept to a minimum and not followed up on, as well as Ash-Greninja, because that is something for the XYZ characterisation of Ash specifically and it's design rather than JN's take. So they didn't want to piss on the old series or change their direction, so they decided to sidestep it. Why not atleast include AG in the XYZ flashbacks? Beats me, it was a dumb decision not to but I doubt arises from them wanting to retcon it happening. Same with Alain probably, they wanted to use him because he's a popular character the writers also like and thought would be a cool 8th member wildcard but was so massively underused because they wanted to sidestep around the whole Ash-Greninja stuff, which was a Crux of Ash and Alains relationship and not wanting to explore that means Alain doesn't really get significant time
All in all, I do believe XY's popularity and "fanbase" will always be at odds with the direction the show went as a result of XY. For better or worse. But I do believe after JN it doesn't really need to be a sore point unless they make Ash end up with a different girl or ever do something similar to JN again, of course for the fanbase, they'll never stop screaming for more that they wished XY delivered
BlobbiBoi
Well-Known Member
XYZ was objectively more mature and serious than any season before it or that has come after it. That maturity is a big part of the appeal for a lot of people. I'm not criticizing the series for being "too dark" to "too edgy" lol, and I don't know why the immediate assumption is "you HATE XY!!!! You're just PARROTING bro!!!" when I've said before the animation is gorgeous and I enjoy it for what it is.
But absolutely no villian in the anime came close to the abject horror of that final arc with Lysandre - the BW Rocket vs Plasma arc could have, but we'll never know.
I'll go one step further; I think XY is the one series that actually had the highest chance to give Ash some legitimate post-arc problems and trauma. They obviously couldn't go that direction in a kids show, so didn't, and we got SM which gave more grounded themes and a more grounded scale while also going back to what the series had been more early on.
Power Up
...
I seriously can't believe this is supposed to be the take that some people got away from this lol. Leon making mincemeat out of Diantha makes it clear that he's a level above all of the other Masters 8 opponents.
Alain is perfectly capable of handling " Champion tier opponents, " he's just not capable of handling Leon, a character purposefully made to be unbeatable, a level above even the Masters 8.
It's not an abdication of XY nor is it a problem of XY supposedly " hyping a level of power that didn't exist. " Seriously have no idea how people come up with these things.
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cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
Trauma from what? TF?
I personally do believe that Ash might suffer from PTSD with all that he’s witnessed. XYZ could have done something where after the Flare arc, Ash is like “why do I have to save the world again? Why I am the only one doing it? Why do all these terrible things keep happening when I’m around?” if that’s what you mean.
BlobbiBoi
Well-Known Member
Firstly, I think we're both agreeing with one another here. I think they handled Leon just fine because it is the exact way they handled Cynthia in the anime too (Flint was the only one who scratched her lol) and everyone goes gaga over that characterization. There's no difference, only people like Cynthia more.
I like the fact Leon is capable of steamrolling Champions because for once it makes you look at Ash and wonder if he's even going to win. It sets actual stakes on a scale I haven't seen the anime pull before. These are some of the best trainers in the world and they can't blow past two of his team tops? That's how you set a character up as being powerful, idk why some people find that so controversional.
But reading some of the XY defence posts you'd swear there was a conspiracy theory just because Alain and Diantha got wiped, even when Diantha put Leon very briefly on the back foot at the end there.
As for my comments on Alain, I was more referencing the fact he's a clear outlier compared to the rest. So is Ash, but he's the main character.
Xuxuba
Well-Known Member
If we are to play the guessing game, i feel like they are tired of having their new work compared to XY/XYZ, hence why they might have some bitterness towards it. Tho a few characters are an exception, like Serena, who had a great comeback episode (but she still had to wait 6 years for a single short appearence without even getting a special either lol).
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