XYZ effect on fans and writers. How do you feel?

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Ignoring the trite, boilerplate responses since the need to make these sort of threads thinly-veiled series wars related is always there. Of course, before PAD has a history of this, before we had these sort of threads so it never really surprises me when newer users tank up the mantle even to this day. The regurgitation and the specificity will never stop being funny.

XY wasn't what caused this massive " split " or whatever euphuism to describe the sort of toxicity/series wars people engage in these days, it was simply because the series after it took a wildly different direction. And to be exact, I'm not blaming SM for this. Personally I think there's a very good possibility that the next series will be able to shake off some of fandom problems, but I thought JN had a good possibility of doing that as well. For me, I'll always be glad that I was part of the community during XY's runtime. Its impact on the community for me during that period was all but positive.

I mean to be fair, it isn't a knock against XY to say it split the fandom. The change from XY to SM definitely did, but like if it was from BW to SM for example, the ire and stuff would be way less.
Plus I really think the reason for such a shift to SM structure was because of how taxing the XY production was, and basically taking the old formula to its limit

I do think there is a feeling of closure that some XY fans didn't get from the series that they wanted, and since they liked it so much they've been angry ever since the show took a new direction, even more so when JN didn't give them what they hoped for

 

[DatsRight]

I mean to be fair, it isn't a knock against XY to say it split the fandom. The change from XY to SM definitely did, but like if it was from BW to SM for example, the ire and stuff would be way less.
Plus I really think the reason for such a shift to SM structure was because of how taxing the XY production was, and basically taking the old formula to its limit

I do think there is a feeling of closure that some XY fans didn't get from the series that they wanted, and since they liked it so much they've been angry ever since the show took a new direction, even more so when JN didn't give them what they hoped for

Some problems also stem from XY being a very self contained series in terms of tone and continuity handling compared to the others. BW took a very different direction from DP but still had lingering elements of that series. Same for JN which diverges from SM but still feels like a sequel.

XY meanwhile could have almost been a separate show with how it closed everything out and didn't bother as much having interconnecting bits of world building. SM weirdly barely references it either, it has continuity, though it mostly favours Kanto due to the anniversary going on. Even the beginning could have placed it after pretty much any series, with the switch right to Alola and Ash handing out undetermined Pokeballs to Oak.

 

[MetaMantis]

This is why XY Ash is far and away the best, badass, and hottest Ash, and this video doesn’t even mention his character development and how he’s portrayed as more mature that much

Alpha Ash

 

[janejane6178]

This is why XY Ash is far and away the best, badass, and hottest Ash, and this video doesn’t even mention his character development and how he’s portrayed as more mature that much

This was before his face was corrupted

 

[MetaMantis]

This was before his face was corrupted

Are you STILL going on with this? Ash's face wasn't corrupted. It's getting annoying at this point to see you spouting rubbish like this.

 

[BlobbiBoi]

I mean to be fair, it isn't a knock against XY to say it split the fandom. The change from XY to SM definitely did, but like if it was from BW to SM for example, the ire and stuff would be way less.
Plus I really think the reason for such a shift to SM structure was because of how taxing the XY production was, and basically taking the old formula to its limit

I do think there is a feeling of closure that some XY fans didn't get from the series that they wanted, and since they liked it so much they've been angry ever since the show took a new direction, even more so when JN didn't give them what they hoped for

Some problems also stem from XY being a very self contained series in terms of tone and continuity handling compared to the others. BW took a very different direction from DP but still had lingering elements of that series. Same for JN which diverges from SM but still feels like a sequel.

XY meanwhile could have almost been a separate show with how it closed everything out and didn't bother as much having interconnecting bits of world building. SM weirdly barely references it either, it has continuity, though it mostly favours Kanto due to the anniversary going on. Even the beginning could have placed it after pretty much any series, with the switch right to Alola and Ash handing out undetermined Pokeballs to Oak.

Yeah, this is what I was trying to say, @Power Up.

No other season harbours as much resentment and a defence-force mentality in it as the XY fandom does that I've seen, and I say that as a fan of it.

 

[janejane6178]

Are you STILL going on with this? Ash's face wasn't corrupted. It's getting annoying at this point to see you spouting rubbish like this.

And yet you still didnt put me in your ignore list, I guess you love reading my posts <3 You are splendid

Anyway, for this topic - XYZ made the standarts very high for Pokemon. The writers of this series are very talented

 

[satopi]

And yet you still didnt put me in your ignore list, I guess you love reading my posts <3 You are splendid

Anyway, for this topic - XYZ made the standarts very high for Pokemon. The writers of this series are very talented

Considering you are on my ignore list but imma take the bait on this. The same writers that are writing JN are the same writers that wrote XY and the one saga starring the inappropriate teacher.

How exactly were the standards placed higher than before? It wasn’t DP levels of hype and outside of expensive animation within its battling, the plot was very similar to the games in terms of the villain. The rare oddity that set XYZ apart from the others were that it was focused on someone entirely original who wasn’t Ash. XY(&Z) had way too much hype bait that I’m surprised y’all ain’t more pissed that none/barely much of your expectations were met.

 

[satopi]

I Stand Tall cause I know I'm a doomer
Ban me now and I'll just comment again
You've met your match cause I've read the rumours
Pokémon! Pokémon! Gotta Catch 'em All!
Stand Tall cause I know I'm a doomer
Pokémon! Pokémon! Gotta Catch 'em All!

Bro you haven’t been on Serebii long if you never got a warning, infraction, or close to being banned from offending the biased users here.

But this is Scott’s theme song here or TMNT.

 

[satopi]

Also, Scott's theme?

Bro keeps making alternate accounts….he needs to be stopped.

 

[mehmeh1]

Considering you are on my ignore list but imma take the bait on this. The same writers that are writing JN are the same writers that wrote XY and the one saga starring the inappropriate teacher.

For the record, there was a pretty big change in writing staff post-XY. All the writers aside from Tomioka, Yonemura, Matsui, and Omode left, SM had mostly new writers to the series

 

[diesglamouris]

Due to a mix of studying and personal issues, I didn't follow XY when aired, but some acquantainces did. That seemed curious to me, even unexpected, because why 20 yo students would want to follow a cyclical formulaic show about colorful animals and intended for children? According to them, as far as I remember, it was because of the anime being more "mature" than ever and Serena having Satoshi as her crush, another curious thing.

I cannot say much about Satoshi-Gekkouga and the Kalos League results, as any discussion could be obscured by the Pokémon GO mania that winter (a game I never played, btw) and, let's be honest, from a casual anipoke follower's POV that time, it was obvious Satoshi would lose. As for the kiss, surely it had a great impact because the news reached me as a far echo and even national newspapers mentioned it in their websites.

Probably these acquantainces were disappointed with the ending overall and the SM new plot and lost their interest, because I don't remember them discussing anipoke after that 2016 winter-spring.

From that distance, I'd say the fact XY attracted such amount of attention from grown ups is very remarkable. Surely it was nice to see a Satoshi experienced, taking the leadership and being an inspiration for his partners, specially after the infamous BW's great reset. The aesthetics also helped a lot, and should do in a region well known by its beautifulness.

But that attention turned to be a double edged sword.

Sometimes it seems writers ignore that a big part, if not the main, of the actual viewers are the older fans worldwide, not the Japanese children. Making Satoshi lose for the umpteenth time, after all that sold hype, Satoshi-Gekkouga, "edgy Satoshi", "the best Satoshi of all times", surely made older fans very very very angry. And make annoy the children isn't the same as make annoy young adults that can vomit hate and threat you in social media. But the fact the new direction decided to retake the kodomo way was the last straw, maybe the dealbreaker you ask for. Although I consider it was for the best, surely was also a big disrespect for the XY fans, even more than the League results. Even now some of them find hard to forgive the new direction for taking Satoshi down from his XY heaven, "corrupting" his face and turning him into the kid that always had been.

I think that, despite all the JN fanservice and the very fair screen share Kalos had this season, the current direction is trying to keep distance from the most controversial aspects of XY, as its passionate fans aren't the audience they're intending for.

 

[Sham]

I’ve never really kept up with episode recurring besides SM and JN really.

That being said, I remember just falling off from the anime when the show came out but the streets kept saying “Ash finally has a girl who likes him!!!”. I also remember a lot of people questioning what Serena’s goal is.

XY was good for it’s main gimmick which was having good battles. That was its niche and it’s saving grace. The pokégirl had a terrible goal, most of everybody’s personalities were focused on Ash in different but certain ways and the companions barely interacted with each other.

Sawyer?
Serena?
Alain?
Korrina?
Clemont?
Alain?

All have in coming being “inspired” by Ash in some way most of which besides Korrina made him an idol. It got so bad that Serena got upset because Ash didn’t behave the way she wanted and expressed sadness. Compare this with a Dawn who let Ash sulk and tried to cheer him up when he was ready.

Why are they even idolizing Ash? It’s not like anybody here knows about his past achievements because the continuity was trash to what were they inspired by? Main character energy?

The continuity also sucked heavily. They did little to no reference towards the older generations besides that Piplup segment and even then Ash was incredibly vague. There wasn’t any actual continuity until that Clemont and Bonnie special when Ash and Serena had been left.

Past Pokegirl returning? Nope.

Older Pokémon being used or referenced? Nah

Any refences to Ash’s past travels?

Nope. Serena said she wanted to go to Hoenn and Ash did nothing to even imply he’s been there.

It’s main thing was providing good battles and overall having the best battle choreography but that’s about it. The Flare arc was nice but you can’t get more bottom of the barrel than the plot of the actual games so the bar was low.

 

[DatsRight]

The ironic thing is that XY's outcome felt like it was supposed to be the whole point, a poetic outcome against the Flare twist and something that VINDICATED the use of the stagnant formula rather than driving fans to hate it more. Hell even XY's recurring motif was that losing wasn't meaningless and everything has a point. With the right handling they could have made it work (likely not TOTALLY without controversy but still one that didn't leave most fans feeling incredibly ripped off, most people were USED to Ash's losing the league at that point anyway).

The problem was that the whole execution completely went against that. The staff decided to have it's cake and eat it too by hyping up the supposed league win like crazy, and what's more did it over actual substance and making said formula seem strong and worth vindicating in the first place. Most of the worst and most lethargic moments in the series were in fact when they followed the formula and didn't bother to add life to it besides as a bland story crutch. XY if anything went against its main message and implied that the old ways just weren't productive anymore. They essentially had to pull a dirty trick to keep the fans watching it, teasing them with the promise of cool change ups they had no intention of keeping. Ironically the following series ended up giving a lot of those changes, but not in the way XY fans had wanted.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Due to a mix of studying and personal issues, I didn't follow XY when aired, but some acquantainces did. That seemed curious to me, even unexpected, because why 20 yo students would want to follow a cyclical formulaic show about colorful animals and intended for children? According to them, as far as I remember, it was because of the anime being more "mature" than ever and Serena having Satoshi as her crush, another curious thing.

I cannot say much about Satoshi-Gekkouga and the Kalos League results, as any discussion could be obscured by the Pokémon GO mania that winter (a game I never played, btw) and, let's be honest, from a casual anipoke follower's POV that time, it was obvious Satoshi would lose. As for the kiss, surely it had a great impact because the news reached me as a far echo and even national newspapers mentioned it in their websites.

Probably these acquantainces were disappointed with the ending overall and the SM new plot and lost their interest, because I don't remember them discussing anipoke after that 2016 winter-spring.

From that distance, I'd say the fact XY attracted such amount of attention from grown ups is very remarkable. Surely it was nice to see a Satoshi experienced, taking the leadership and being an inspiration for his partners, specially after the infamous BW's great reset. The aesthetics also helped a lot, and should do in a region well known by its beautifulness.

But that attention turned to be a double edged sword.

Sometimes it seems writers ignore that a big part, if not the main, of the actual viewers are the older fans worldwide, not the Japanese children. Making Satoshi lose for the umpteenth time, after all that sold hype, Satoshi-Gekkouga, "edgy Satoshi", "the best Satoshi of all times", surely made older fans very very very angry. And make annoy the children isn't the same as make annoy young adults that can vomit hate and threat you in social media. But the fact the new direction decided to retake the kodomo way was the last straw, maybe the dealbreaker you ask for. Although I consider it was for the best, surely was also a big disrespect for the XY fans, even more than the League results. Even now some of them find hard to forgive the new direction for taking Satoshi down from his XY heaven, "corrupting" his face and turning him into the kid that always had been.

I think that, despite all the JN fanservice and the very fair screen share Kalos had this season, the current direction is trying to keep distance from the most controversial aspects of XY, as its passionate fans aren't the audience they're intending for.

This. This is why XY was far and away the best and SM and JN ruined everything.

 

[pickapika]

Due to a mix of studying and personal issues, I didn't follow XY when aired, but some acquantainces did. That seemed curious to me, even unexpected, because why 20 yo students would want to follow a cyclical formulaic show about colorful animals and intended for children? According to them, as far as I remember, it was because of the anime being more "mature" than ever and Serena having Satoshi as her crush, another curious thing.

Ash is flung into an extistenstial crisis by losing a gym battle 2 episodes in.

Does "mature" here mean out of character, blandly exposited, melodrama that never actually leads anywhere?

 

[pickapika]

I don't mean to that level of decimation persay, but if Cynthia had matched with Alain I'm at least 90% sure people would have gone "lol bye Alain", the same way people did that when Diantha matched with Lance.

Maybe I'm just being a little too critical; we'll never know what would have happened if Leon had viewed Alain as enough of a danger to pull out his ace and G-Max instead of clapping him with a Dragon Pulse to the face and oneshotting him.

My only real point of note is that Leon was clearly threatened enough to meet Mega Gardevoir with his (objectively) full strength, and even then it had enough firepower to land a thunderbolt and throw the Wildfire back at Charizard's face. Alain, by contrast, didn't get that.

I mean, Iris just wiped the floor with cynthia on even footing. Don't think that fits so well with the idea Cynthia could stomp Alain.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

The Kalos League Effect.

Defined as:

A Pokémon Fan who is still stressing over Ash's Kalos League loss, so they feel the need to condemn everything that comes after it, regardless of whether they actually hate it or not. Those suffering from the Kalos League Effect tend to be difficult to converse with, as a third of their brain power is focused only on the strengths and weaknesses of a frog.

Yep that’s me.

 

[diesglamouris]

Ash is flung into an extistenstial crisis by losing a gym battle 2 episodes in.

Does "mature" here mean out of character, blandly exposited, melodrama that never actually leads anywhere?

I don't know. Just stated what other people said about XY overall that time, not only about Satoshi.

If you ask me after watching XY, I'd say that "maturity" is kinda overrated? Hence my quotes. Yeah, the art style and the songs were beautiful, but beautiful and mature isn't the same thing. You want a real mature plot? Talk about political, social or ethical issues. (The villiain plot could have some of this, but no more than other seasons, as I can recall.)

The depression arc and the fighting against the Pokégirl isn't really something unseen before for Satoshi, so I wouldn't say that's OOC, but neither that's a mature plot.

 

[Sham]

I don't know. Just stated what other people said about XY overall that time, not only about Satoshi.

If you ask me after watching XY, I'd say that "maturity" is kinda overrated? Hence my quotes. Yeah, the art style and the songs were beautiful, but beautiful and mature isn't the same thing. You want a real mature plot? Talk about political, social or ethical issues.

The depression arc and the fighting against the Pokégirl isn't really something unseen before for Satoshi, so I wouldn't say that's OOC, but neither that's a mature plot.

I agee with this. I think expecting a “mature” series that’s targeted towards children is a bit arbitrary. It’s possible having a mature conversation and topics but them overall trying to make Ash into a caricature of a teenager was not the right move.

The depression arc is a perfect example of how not to treat a friend when they’re down. You shouldn’t expect somebody to pull themselves from their bootstraps immediately and instead give them the time and space to deal with their feelings while supporting them like a certain Pokegirl did in DP.

Not throwning a fit because they can no longer be a shining hero and your inspiration because he’s having a bad moment