randomspot555
Well-Known Member
Fan made tiers aren't really relevant when discussing evolutions and what's "needed." The metagame is about adapting to the game that is presented to us, not deciding what should and should not go into it.
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You don't hate Gen IV do you?
- Thread starter Arceusgamer14
- Start date
Fan made tiers aren't really relevant when discussing evolutions and what's "needed." The metagame is about adapting to the game that is presented to us, not deciding what should and should not go into it.
binarypirate
sdgfhj
Those Pokemon are still in UU and NU.
They most likely always will be. Which means adding evolutions doesn't fix the problem. If they just wanted to add some to OU, which is after all fan based, they should have just created new Pokemon, in completely different evolutionary chains.
It would have had the same effect and it would not have added a completely unnecessary evolutions.
I guess those aren't too subjective, maybe, but they can be explained/justified/seen in a different light.
In Hoenn, neither "rival" is all that competitive, but you do get to battle two friend trainers throughout the game as opposed to a single friend trainer. And Wally is the only rival so far who isn't constantly one step ahead of you, even though everything you do would suggest that you're succeeding where your rival fails. It's the only generation where you're not lagging behind some trainer you keep wiping the floor with. Imo, that was refreshing and a bit more realistic.
If Ruby/Sapphire's plot being reformed in Emerald is a point of criticism, the same does rather apply to Diamond and Pearl. And even if the original plots seemed unsatisfying until they were upgraded in the third iteration, you still get the happy boost of having a fresh, more-interesting plot to surprise you when you play those third iterations. I find it more pleasant than not.
The water. Well, yes, there was a lot. Presumably because Hoenn was depicted as the most tropical of the regions so far. But not liking water routes is rather subjective, after all. For instance, the sort of routes I can't stand are deep cave routes, which Hoenn was rather light on compared to the other regions. Besides Victory Road and the underwater Team headquarters (and maybe Shoal Cave, though that's optional), Hoenn's caves are fairly miniscule and straightforward. I didn't really mind surfing around, especially since it made room for more little discoveries, when you factor in Dive's existence.
It's bad form to call them unnecessary just because you don't like them. I happen to enjoy Weavile very much, and I like knowing that now, if I want to train a Sneasel, there's actually a competitive future for it in one of my teams. Before Gen 4, training a Sneasel would have been fun, but short-term and somewhat unfulfilling. So I'd call Weavile very necessary indeed.
If you want to be technical, no evolutions are necessary. Every Pokemon could simply have been made to be a standalone individual. And anyway, we don't get to decide what's necessary and what isn't. We get to decide what we'll do, for ourselves, in our own games, how we want, based on what we like. Nobody makes you necessarily have to have that Weavile.
binarypirate
sdgfhj
I do like them. But that doesn't mean they should be there. And sneasel still has no place in an OU competitive team, its evolution does.
I am not against adding evolutions, but I am against having NEXT TO ZERO STAND ALONE POKEMON, with the exception of Legends.
Let the stand alones, stand alone.
randomspot555
Well-Known Member
While I see your point, I just never really found them challenging, at all. In FR, I had to level up my Pokemon more than once before an encounter with Blue just to face him. I never had to do that in Emerald.
I disagree about R/S plot in comparison to D/P. D/Ps plot wasn't fleshed out by MUCH, but I think just enough for it to stand on it's own.
The only reason I hate caves is the flash HM. But that was solved in gen 4, and hopefully (please) we'll never ever go back.
It's not our place as fans to decide what "should" and "should not" be there.
That was his point. That if it wasn't for Sneasel getting an evolution, it would NEVER have a shot in the OU enviornment.
Considering every Pokemon gen has added evolutions I don't see why Sinnoh gets panned for it and none of the other gens even get it mentioned. A good chunk of Johto era Pokemon are new evolutions or pre-evolves/baby.
binarypirate
sdgfhj
Im out of this thread, If you don't understand what I am saying the first three times, then you never will. Plus, engaging opposed opinions is about as pointless as Christianity vs Atheism.
Peace!
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randomspot555
Well-Known Member
You didn't read Profesco's post. He said thered' be no point in training Sneasel for standard competitive play because it wouldn't stand a chance. But in Gen 4, he can train a Sneasel and evolve it for the Sneasel line to be viable in OU.
Typhlosion Trainer
Fire Trainer
I have to second the fact that I liked the 4th gen storyline better than the 3rd gen storyline.
marto_motoko
Steel Trainer
My opinion remains very separate from generation to generation - each generation has the strong, and the weak.
I always found the first original pokemon games to be kind of a drag to be honest, and played theme merely for the wonderful pokemon designs such as Gyarados (which I oddly don't like that much now.
), Mew, Mewtwo, Kangaskhan, Nidoking, yada yada.
I loved Johto for the overall story, which made me WISH I could be a Team Rocket member, since I adored them at that point, and that's when I saw them develop this very dark team of pokemon like Murkrow, Houndoom, etc. The areas were neat, and Crystal had taken over my life for a very extended period of time. It just felt fun. I really only disliked the fact that the pokemon in it were hard to raise to higher levels due to things being too low-leveled.
I found Hoenn to be even more fun, and while I was devastated that I couldn't get my original Pokemon from my Crystal game, I was entranced at the rich atmosphere, and the extremely frantic island. I could see how that could turn people off, but there was NO boring part about it. Not to mention that I felt this was the most challenging of the games yet. I didn't like the fact that it was absolutely mandatory to surf as much as I had to, which was indeed quite a bit, and the two evil teams were rather eh.... but I liked the overall outcome and self-awareness of both Archie and Maxxie. I felt the pokemon designs were the best of any generation. The battle frontier was also brilliant in Emerald.
The fourth generation, combat wise, was the smoothest. The split between the two factions of physical and special opened new windows of opportunity to many pokemon that previously were hampered by their own type, and now things like Absol, Gengar, Azumarill, Sharpedo and many others, were permitted to fight more freely. Many moves were added that made previously underlooked pokemon worthwhile (Ninetales).
However, to me, as a total, the island had rather ugly colors, and the characters were rather dislikable. I thought that Professor Roan was very intimidating, and nowhere near as approachable as the previous, the Rival was lacking any sense of personality, and felt like Pikachu incarnate in a human - all laugh, all cheekyness, and no substance unlike the yellow favourite rodent of ours. Things didn't feel like they flowed as freely, and often felt more linear than before, and a ton of the new additions made no sense to me, such as the underground (it's ugly, and rather unappealing compared to the secret bases from before. Could have made it cooler looking). The music didn't click with me like it did in Johto and Hoenn, and while I must admit I enjoy the entirety of the story more than ANY other pokemon game (sans colliseum I loved that tale), there simply wasn't as big of a draw for me. I dislike many of the new pokemon, not even compared to the old, but on their own right. I like many of the legendaries, but think there were too many of them, and others simply looked too bright, even surpassing the Johto pokemon. They looked more cartoonish than the previous, and while every generation has had very bright, vibrant pokemon, this one had them in excess. I also felt that once I beat the elite four, things felt very scattered, and incomprehensive. I didn't know what was going on, and things didn't make a ton of sense.
In total, I really do enjoy the fourth generation for some of its addition in pokemon, but mainly I think it shines with its story, the battle mechanics it brought, but I feel that much like the second generation, the focus was on improving past gripes, rather than bringing something new to the table in terms of pokemon. I just think Johto did the pokemon aspect better, while Sinnoh brought the mechanics improvement better. I still say Kanto and Hoenn shine in originality though, whether it was good or bad, it's hard not to admit that those two were very original and unique.
I always found the first original pokemon games to be kind of a drag to be honest, and played theme merely for the wonderful pokemon designs such as Gyarados (which I oddly don't like that much now.
), Mew, Mewtwo, Kangaskhan, Nidoking, yada yada.I loved Johto for the overall story, which made me WISH I could be a Team Rocket member, since I adored them at that point, and that's when I saw them develop this very dark team of pokemon like Murkrow, Houndoom, etc. The areas were neat, and Crystal had taken over my life for a very extended period of time. It just felt fun. I really only disliked the fact that the pokemon in it were hard to raise to higher levels due to things being too low-leveled.
I found Hoenn to be even more fun, and while I was devastated that I couldn't get my original Pokemon from my Crystal game, I was entranced at the rich atmosphere, and the extremely frantic island. I could see how that could turn people off, but there was NO boring part about it. Not to mention that I felt this was the most challenging of the games yet. I didn't like the fact that it was absolutely mandatory to surf as much as I had to, which was indeed quite a bit, and the two evil teams were rather eh.... but I liked the overall outcome and self-awareness of both Archie and Maxxie. I felt the pokemon designs were the best of any generation. The battle frontier was also brilliant in Emerald.
The fourth generation, combat wise, was the smoothest. The split between the two factions of physical and special opened new windows of opportunity to many pokemon that previously were hampered by their own type, and now things like Absol, Gengar, Azumarill, Sharpedo and many others, were permitted to fight more freely. Many moves were added that made previously underlooked pokemon worthwhile (Ninetales).
However, to me, as a total, the island had rather ugly colors, and the characters were rather dislikable. I thought that Professor Roan was very intimidating, and nowhere near as approachable as the previous, the Rival was lacking any sense of personality, and felt like Pikachu incarnate in a human - all laugh, all cheekyness, and no substance unlike the yellow favourite rodent of ours. Things didn't feel like they flowed as freely, and often felt more linear than before, and a ton of the new additions made no sense to me, such as the underground (it's ugly, and rather unappealing compared to the secret bases from before. Could have made it cooler looking). The music didn't click with me like it did in Johto and Hoenn, and while I must admit I enjoy the entirety of the story more than ANY other pokemon game (sans colliseum I loved that tale), there simply wasn't as big of a draw for me. I dislike many of the new pokemon, not even compared to the old, but on their own right. I like many of the legendaries, but think there were too many of them, and others simply looked too bright, even surpassing the Johto pokemon. They looked more cartoonish than the previous, and while every generation has had very bright, vibrant pokemon, this one had them in excess. I also felt that once I beat the elite four, things felt very scattered, and incomprehensive. I didn't know what was going on, and things didn't make a ton of sense.
In total, I really do enjoy the fourth generation for some of its addition in pokemon, but mainly I think it shines with its story, the battle mechanics it brought, but I feel that much like the second generation, the focus was on improving past gripes, rather than bringing something new to the table in terms of pokemon. I just think Johto did the pokemon aspect better, while Sinnoh brought the mechanics improvement better. I still say Kanto and Hoenn shine in originality though, whether it was good or bad, it's hard not to admit that those two were very original and unique.
Why are people dissing the DS equivalent to generation 1 just because it came after Hoenn? See, they even released Fire Red/Leaf Green to get us ready for it, especially since the Nintendo DS was out the same time. I mean, people thought that HG/SS would be out before Platinum, but no, it wasn't. If any of you want a sequel to gen 4, there's a game coming out soon to better Pokémon's "ocarina of Time", in this case, Gold and Silver, to help you appreciate more how gen 4 really was the best Pokémon game (surely better than an 8-bit game from 10 years ago) before generation 5 arrived. Also, many ideas put into Gold and Silver during development in '94 (two words: space world) have been included in gen 4. Besides, we all know now that we know the pattern for generations. Game Freak often use previous plots, you see, and Lucas in generation 4 is very similar to Red off generation 1. But because DS's are more powerful than a Game Boy in terms of memory, new things are added. Satoru Iwata announced that generation 5 will be brilliant, btw.
Master_of_grass
War Never Changes
Although Johto will forever be my chosen land, Sinnoh offered something different. wider range of moves, the move split was revolutionary in the way we battle. the SNOW o the glorious snow even though it took forever to get through it was still a nice addition, i mean how many times have they gone through the snow on anime but in the games there was none.
binarypirate they where talking about how a pokemon who use to be in UU/Nu eg sneasle, gligar ect they now have the potential to be OU through evolution neither randomspot or profesco said anything about their original form being able to break through to OU. so maybe you should read things properly before cracking the shits because you have not been right in a conversation. especially with member who have been here longer than you have and serebii staff
binarypirate they where talking about how a pokemon who use to be in UU/Nu eg sneasle, gligar ect they now have the potential to be OU through evolution neither randomspot or profesco said anything about their original form being able to break through to OU. so maybe you should read things properly before cracking the shits because you have not been right in a conversation. especially with member who have been here longer than you have and serebii staff
I don't really dislike 4th gen. It had a huge map and great new Pokemon. Yeah, some of the evolutions to old Pokemon looked kind of dopey, but I don't use them, so it's okay.
3rd gen was probably my least favorite, although I still enjoyed it. Even though it added new mechanics such as double battles and not having to return to your box every time it got full, among other things, it was just so unmemorable. A lot of the Pokemon seemed to be older Pokemon with different designs, the rival(s) stank, and the criminal organization was much more boring than Team Rocket or Galaxy.
Again, I still enjoyed the game despite its flaws, but it isn't as good as 4th gen.
3rd gen was probably my least favorite, although I still enjoyed it. Even though it added new mechanics such as double battles and not having to return to your box every time it got full, among other things, it was just so unmemorable. A lot of the Pokemon seemed to be older Pokemon with different designs, the rival(s) stank, and the criminal organization was much more boring than Team Rocket or Galaxy.
Again, I still enjoyed the game despite its flaws, but it isn't as good as 4th gen.
Some people don't understand logic and just wanna jump into an arguement the don't understand Personally I LOVE The new Evos I loved gligar and sneasel and aipom in the past and now their evolutions make them usable in online play not to mention they look badass
Kurloz Makara
Red Death
Personally, I love all four of them, especially Gen IV. GO DARKRAI, LUCARIO AND GIRATINA!! WHOOHOO!!
Sorry about that... ^^; Those are my three faves from Gen IV.
I'm a little disturbed by Rhyperior, though... It doesn't look right.
Sorry about that... ^^; Those are my three faves from Gen IV.
I'm a little disturbed by Rhyperior, though... It doesn't look right.
Very true. All the generations are very fun. It gives the sense that you never know what kind of pokemon that next trainer will have. I love it. Though there are too many legedaries in my opinion.
HoennMaster
Well-Known Member
I've loved all the generations, but Generation IV has been a great improvement over Generation III in my book. Looking back, Generation III was kind of a disappointment. Still love it at the same time though.
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randomspot555
Well-Known Member
Dattebyo, the physical/special split is something against the 4th gen?
Tell me, how much sense did it really make for Pokemon with tiny arms like Gengar and Alakazam to be able to use strong elemental punces effectively?
I think the split was for the best. Sure, it took some getting used to but I think it makes a lot more logical sense that Snorlax's Fire Punch is stronger than Alakazam's Fire Punch.
Tell me, how much sense did it really make for Pokemon with tiny arms like Gengar and Alakazam to be able to use strong elemental punces effectively?
I think the split was for the best. Sure, it took some getting used to but I think it makes a lot more logical sense that Snorlax's Fire Punch is stronger than Alakazam's Fire Punch.
I love every generation since the franchise began so no I don't hate Gen IV. I think the Pokemon designs were likable and I liked that Contests got an upgrade in this generation and that they added Wi-Fi capabilities. I loved that GSC got remakes in Gen IV too, and that they added neat facilities like the Battle Frontier and the Pokethlon. It's been a fun ride the whole time.